Rabbi Matt Goldberg

Doctors and nurses and everyone, you know, have so much going on and are, of course, great at what they do and are so busy. And to have chaplains who are dedicated to this particular, you know, coming in, talking, laughing, singing, sitting with people in whatever they're feeling. Yeah. Is a great thing.

Doctors and nurses and everyone, you know, have so much going on and are, of course, great at what they do and are so busy. And to have chaplains who are dedicated to this particular, you know, coming in, talking, laughing, singing, sitting with people in whatever they're feeling. Yeah. Is a great thing.

their backgrounds about, Oh, you know what their, uh, parent always used to say or do. And it just comes back to this, uh, reminder that they're not alone, I think is really important.

their backgrounds about, Oh, you know what their, uh, parent always used to say or do. And it just comes back to this, uh, reminder that they're not alone, I think is really important.

No, and I wouldn't tell you if it was just you, but not that much. I think you're absolutely right, which gets at, in some ways, the beauty of spirituality and in other ways, the... maybe the challenge is that we don't always know what, what will, what will do it, what will bring that connection and that meaning.

No, and I wouldn't tell you if it was just you, but not that much. I think you're absolutely right, which gets at, in some ways, the beauty of spirituality and in other ways, the... maybe the challenge is that we don't always know what, what will, what will do it, what will bring that connection and that meaning.

You know, you mentioned earlier about walking in nature and, and, you know, some people know that, oh, when I'm, when I'm just with nobody else and I'm just among the trees or I'm, I see a beautiful sunrise or a great something in nature.

You know, you mentioned earlier about walking in nature and, and, you know, some people know that, oh, when I'm, when I'm just with nobody else and I'm just among the trees or I'm, I see a beautiful sunrise or a great something in nature.

I know that nature brings me deep spirituality, or if I hear beautiful music, I know that that music really makes me feel, but often, often we, we don't know it's, it's, Yeah. Elusive, maybe. I don't know if that's quite the right word, but there's beauty in that.

I know that nature brings me deep spirituality, or if I hear beautiful music, I know that that music really makes me feel, but often, often we, we don't know it's, it's, Yeah. Elusive, maybe. I don't know if that's quite the right word, but there's beauty in that.

There's beauty in the fact that it's not predictable all the time, that we can be moved by the words of someone at a funeral, by a particular memory, or by an experience going about our day. And so it's not, it's certainly not just you.

There's beauty in the fact that it's not predictable all the time, that we can be moved by the words of someone at a funeral, by a particular memory, or by an experience going about our day. And so it's not, it's certainly not just you.

And, and I don't know why that is that some, some parts of spirituality again are predictable and we, we know that this is meaningful for us and other times, you know, we, we don't see it coming.

And, and I don't know why that is that some, some parts of spirituality again are predictable and we, we know that this is meaningful for us and other times, you know, we, we don't see it coming.

Absolutely. I mean, I love, love, love, love the driving around this, this time of year and seeing the lights. It's, it's a, it's a shame. It's not a tradition that the Jewish people picked up on. Cause I just, I, it makes me really happy. I love this. Yeah.

Absolutely. I mean, I love, love, love, love the driving around this, this time of year and seeing the lights. It's, it's a, it's a shame. It's not a tradition that the Jewish people picked up on. Cause I just, I, it makes me really happy. I love this. Yeah.

It's great. And you're right. You're right about the light. I think as you were talking about, you know, referencing, um, uh, the eulogy and the Shamash, um, It got me thinking about how there's something to this idea that I think I maybe said at the beginning when we started that a lot of my own spirituality and spiritual connection comes from being with people, being in community.

It's great. And you're right. You're right about the light. I think as you were talking about, you know, referencing, um, uh, the eulogy and the Shamash, um, It got me thinking about how there's something to this idea that I think I maybe said at the beginning when we started that a lot of my own spirituality and spiritual connection comes from being with people, being in community.

And I think that there's something about, you know, when we offer light, when we, you know, opt into community, we don't lose the light that we have. You know, like a shamash on a menorah or a chanukiah, we can offer light and we are not diminished. Yeah.

And I think that there's something about, you know, when we offer light, when we, you know, opt into community, we don't lose the light that we have. You know, like a shamash on a menorah or a chanukiah, we can offer light and we are not diminished. Yeah.

And I think that that's one of the, I don't know, I love that about being together with people that we can, you know, I can offer you something, whether again, it's song or words or, you know, let's go for a walk and see the lights or whatever else it is. And we can both then find spirituality. And I don't sacrifice my own by offering it to the community.

And I think that that's one of the, I don't know, I love that about being together with people that we can, you know, I can offer you something, whether again, it's song or words or, you know, let's go for a walk and see the lights or whatever else it is. And we can both then find spirituality. And I don't sacrifice my own by offering it to the community.

Yes, yes. I mean, I don't know if it's kosher to quote just a little bit of scripture, but two very important verses to me, one from the Torah and one from later in the Bible. The first says, behold, God was between you and me all along, or God is between you and me forever. That's from Samuel in the Bible.

Yes, yes. I mean, I don't know if it's kosher to quote just a little bit of scripture, but two very important verses to me, one from the Torah and one from later in the Bible. The first says, behold, God was between you and me all along, or God is between you and me forever. That's from Samuel in the Bible.

And I take that to mean that God, and I mean, again, we could do a whole show on what is God, but divinity, spirituality is found specifically between people, not isolated, not when I remove myself from the community, but specifically when I seek out relationship, right?

And I take that to mean that God, and I mean, again, we could do a whole show on what is God, but divinity, spirituality is found specifically between people, not isolated, not when I remove myself from the community, but specifically when I seek out relationship, right?

And there's a verse we're going to read in the Torah portion coming up in a few weeks here that says, the Hebrew starts, God is speaking and saying, the Israelites should build this temple, the Mishkan, a place of prayer and sacrifice. They will build it and I will dwell among them, meaning among the people. So again, It's not saying build for me this temple and I will dwell there.

And there's a verse we're going to read in the Torah portion coming up in a few weeks here that says, the Hebrew starts, God is speaking and saying, the Israelites should build this temple, the Mishkan, a place of prayer and sacrifice. They will build it and I will dwell among them, meaning among the people. So again, It's not saying build for me this temple and I will dwell there.

Right, don't build it for yourself. And it's not saying God will dwell there in the temple you've built, but again, God will dwell among the people. So when we embark on a communal activity, whether it is building a physical space or whether it is getting together to process a terrible, jarring tragedy in our country or in our community,

Right, don't build it for yourself. And it's not saying God will dwell there in the temple you've built, but again, God will dwell among the people. So when we embark on a communal activity, whether it is building a physical space or whether it is getting together to process a terrible, jarring tragedy in our country or in our community,

that is where we can find, again, connection, where we can find meaning, where we can perhaps find God, if that's what we're looking for. So I think that not only are you right, but I think that our tradition has shown, you know, people have been saying that and exploring that for thousands of years.

that is where we can find, again, connection, where we can find meaning, where we can perhaps find God, if that's what we're looking for. So I think that not only are you right, but I think that our tradition has shown, you know, people have been saying that and exploring that for thousands of years.

that I'm, I'm constantly learning. So I'm, I'm finished my six years of rabbinical school and a lot. And I, did a lot of homework and wrote a lot of papers and a lot of reading, but I am not finished learning by any means. I had a teacher who thought that rabbinical school should be a 15 or 20 year program.

that I'm, I'm constantly learning. So I'm, I'm finished my six years of rabbinical school and a lot. And I, did a lot of homework and wrote a lot of papers and a lot of reading, but I am not finished learning by any means. I had a teacher who thought that rabbinical school should be a 15 or 20 year program.

And so I don't know if he was just trying to get a rise out of us or if he meant it, but it worked if that's what he was doing. So I'm, you know, humbly and hopefully still answering your question. I'm not... totally sure I think that in you know reflecting on on my life up until now uh there's been both religion and spirituality, sometimes at the same time, and sometimes not.

And so I don't know if he was just trying to get a rise out of us or if he meant it, but it worked if that's what he was doing. So I'm, you know, humbly and hopefully still answering your question. I'm not... totally sure I think that in you know reflecting on on my life up until now uh there's been both religion and spirituality, sometimes at the same time, and sometimes not.

I see a lot of my religious practice, whether that's, you know, praying, you know, in Jewish tradition, many of us traditionally pray three times a day, or that's in observance of holidays and holidays. Keeping to the calendar, the Hebrew calendar, the religious calendar, there's religious practice that is not necessarily related to what I consider spirituality.

I see a lot of my religious practice, whether that's, you know, praying, you know, in Jewish tradition, many of us traditionally pray three times a day, or that's in observance of holidays and holidays. Keeping to the calendar, the Hebrew calendar, the religious calendar, there's religious practice that is not necessarily related to what I consider spirituality.

But I'm not sure that that was always the case for me. I think that the idea of the existence of both religion and spirituality is newer, is newer. I've been trying to spend more time and through rabbinical school, tried to spend a lot of time really working on expressing what spirituality and what divinity is and how I experience divinity. divinity.

But I'm not sure that that was always the case for me. I think that the idea of the existence of both religion and spirituality is newer, is newer. I've been trying to spend more time and through rabbinical school, tried to spend a lot of time really working on expressing what spirituality and what divinity is and how I experience divinity. divinity.

And I've come to realize that it's not just, it's not simply a part of being Jewish, that there's necessarily, that there's necessarily God or there's necessarily spirituality. And so I'm not sure if I'm, if I'm answering.

And I've come to realize that it's not just, it's not simply a part of being Jewish, that there's necessarily, that there's necessarily God or there's necessarily spirituality. And so I'm not sure if I'm, if I'm answering.

What brought you to it, I guess? Why rabbinical school? It's a mix of a few things, and I haven't found a way to answer this in any short form. So someone give me a cutoff or something if I start rambling. But the first thing is that I'm the product of a Jewish community. I grew up in Vancouver, B.C., and so I came here as an international student and all of that. And

What brought you to it, I guess? Why rabbinical school? It's a mix of a few things, and I haven't found a way to answer this in any short form. So someone give me a cutoff or something if I start rambling. But the first thing is that I'm the product of a Jewish community. I grew up in Vancouver, B.C., and so I came here as an international student and all of that. And

I grew up in a Jewish community that was very loving, very supportive of me and my learning and my Jewish practice. My rabbi growing up, when I started leading prayer services and found that I loved doing that, he was very giving of the bima, of the pulpit. He let me experiment and lead services and try new music and things like that.

I grew up in a Jewish community that was very loving, very supportive of me and my learning and my Jewish practice. My rabbi growing up, when I started leading prayer services and found that I loved doing that, he was very giving of the bima, of the pulpit. He let me experiment and lead services and try new music and things like that.

And so the first thing is credit to my parents for finding a Jewish community to raise me in and pushing me to go, even though I wanted to be at soccer practice or hockey practice or whatever it was and building a Jewish community around me. So the first part of the answer is that I grew up loving my Jewish life and my Jewish community.

And so the first thing is credit to my parents for finding a Jewish community to raise me in and pushing me to go, even though I wanted to be at soccer practice or hockey practice or whatever it was and building a Jewish community around me. So the first part of the answer is that I grew up loving my Jewish life and my Jewish community.

So I knew that Judaism and that community was going to be important to me, you know, wherever I went. Um, I didn't always know I was going to be a rabbi or that, you know, I wanted to pursue this, this clergy life. I kind of up and down when I was young, I thought, certainly I, I, I'm definitely going to do this. The rabbi life is, um, uh, is the life for me. Um,

So I knew that Judaism and that community was going to be important to me, you know, wherever I went. Um, I didn't always know I was going to be a rabbi or that, you know, I wanted to pursue this, this clergy life. I kind of up and down when I was young, I thought, certainly I, I, I'm definitely going to do this. The rabbi life is, um, uh, is the life for me. Um,

And then I got older and I thought, why would I want to take something I love so much and make it a job? And then I got even a little bit older and I realized I have this opportunity, you know, to make a living and support myself and my family doing something I feel so passionately about.

And then I got older and I thought, why would I want to take something I love so much and make it a job? And then I got even a little bit older and I realized I have this opportunity, you know, to make a living and support myself and my family doing something I feel so passionately about.

I didn't know you did that. I did. You know what I did. But my plan was to be a baker. So after my first year of university, I did a year of university and hated it for for a few reasons. And so I left school. I had found a part time summer job the year before selling bread in a local bakery. It turned out I was really good at it.

I didn't know you did that. I did. You know what I did. But my plan was to be a baker. So after my first year of university, I did a year of university and hated it for for a few reasons. And so I left school. I had found a part time summer job the year before selling bread in a local bakery. It turned out I was really good at it.

I will say, looking back, it's not that hard to sell delicious bread and cinnamon buns, but I thought I was, you know, God's gift to the business. And I ended up, I was telling my boss at the bakery, oh, I'm not going to go back to school, I don't think. And he said, well, you know, come work here full time. And so I did, and I ended up going back to school. I'm totally going on a tangent.

I will say, looking back, it's not that hard to sell delicious bread and cinnamon buns, but I thought I was, you know, God's gift to the business. And I ended up, I was telling my boss at the bakery, oh, I'm not going to go back to school, I don't think. And he said, well, you know, come work here full time. And so I did, and I ended up going back to school. I'm totally going on a tangent.

The point is I went back to school. I ended up going to a different university. And while I was there, I got re-involved in the Jewish community. not only as a participant, but also as a leader. And this was one of the first opportunities I had had to not only do Jewish practice, but to facilitate it for others.

The point is I went back to school. I ended up going to a different university. And while I was there, I got re-involved in the Jewish community. not only as a participant, but also as a leader. And this was one of the first opportunities I had had to not only do Jewish practice, but to facilitate it for others.

I was living in Halifax, Nova Scotia, on the east coast of Canada, where there wasn't a... There's certainly a Jewish community, but not, you know, it's no... whatever. But kosher food isn't so readily available, etc. I had the opportunity a few times to facilitate and make accessible Jewish practice and Jewish learning and Jewish observance.

I was living in Halifax, Nova Scotia, on the east coast of Canada, where there wasn't a... There's certainly a Jewish community, but not, you know, it's no... whatever. But kosher food isn't so readily available, etc. I had the opportunity a few times to facilitate and make accessible Jewish practice and Jewish learning and Jewish observance.

And so I think that that's where that was in my last couple of years where I realized, ah, I want the opportunity to make Jewish practice welcoming and accessible to make, to make, you know, again, religious observance, something that people can, can do. And that's when I, that's when I found that's my, that's the short.

And so I think that that's where that was in my last couple of years where I realized, ah, I want the opportunity to make Jewish practice welcoming and accessible to make, to make, you know, again, religious observance, something that people can, can do. And that's when I, that's when I found that's my, that's the short.

Yeah, yeah, I think it's a great question and I'll say it's a question that I... would love for us to talk more about, you know, in synagogue, for example, I can't speak much to other places of worship, but I would love for us to talk more about spirituality, both as a people and also our individual spirituality in the synagogue. And I don't think that they're exactly the same.

Yeah, yeah, I think it's a great question and I'll say it's a question that I... would love for us to talk more about, you know, in synagogue, for example, I can't speak much to other places of worship, but I would love for us to talk more about spirituality, both as a people and also our individual spirituality in the synagogue. And I don't think that they're exactly the same.

Ooh, big question.

Ooh, big question.

You know, I'm going to sound like a broken record because my answers are going to be the same couple things that I've kept coming back to. The first is... excuse me, the first is, you know, that spirituality or divinity or community or comfort or meaning, whatever, is found between me and you.

You know, I'm going to sound like a broken record because my answers are going to be the same couple things that I've kept coming back to. The first is... excuse me, the first is, you know, that spirituality or divinity or community or comfort or meaning, whatever, is found between me and you.

And so when we get together, whether that's one-on-one or in bigger groups or bigger and breathe or pray or sing or run or whatever it might be, we can I don't know what the word, regulate, chill out, be productive, remember what's really important. And that's true also when these huge, terrible things are going on in our world. This is all the more so I'm focusing in my work on

And so when we get together, whether that's one-on-one or in bigger groups or bigger and breathe or pray or sing or run or whatever it might be, we can I don't know what the word, regulate, chill out, be productive, remember what's really important. And that's true also when these huge, terrible things are going on in our world. This is all the more so I'm focusing in my work on

uh meeting with people trying to make myself available I've been setting up at coffee shops and restaurants all around Minneapolis trying to make sure that our community knows that I'm available to talk to process um to be a pastoral pastoral presence for people because again when we get stressed out or anxious about what's going on and we isolate ourselves it only gets worse yeah um Yeah.

uh meeting with people trying to make myself available I've been setting up at coffee shops and restaurants all around Minneapolis trying to make sure that our community knows that I'm available to talk to process um to be a pastoral pastoral presence for people because again when we get stressed out or anxious about what's going on and we isolate ourselves it only gets worse yeah um Yeah.

So I think that's, you know, it starts here. Everything that's going on in the world, what we can affect, what I can affect is how I meet each person in front of me. I'm trying to do that by reminding them that they're not alone and that we can, you know, have hopefully meaningful conversations or meaningful moments one-on-one.

So I think that's, you know, it starts here. Everything that's going on in the world, what we can affect, what I can affect is how I meet each person in front of me. I'm trying to do that by reminding them that they're not alone and that we can, you know, have hopefully meaningful conversations or meaningful moments one-on-one.

Mm hmm. spirituality can be connected that way. Right. I think so. And that's why, again, it's so important. Religion is just one, uh, as we heard from Aaron, thank you for, for bringing into this conversation. Religion is one way to provide that, that

Mm hmm. spirituality can be connected that way. Right. I think so. And that's why, again, it's so important. Religion is just one, uh, as we heard from Aaron, thank you for, for bringing into this conversation. Religion is one way to provide that, that

space that that safety of of being able to be vulnerable and say you know this is how this affected me or this is you know this is why this was or wasn't meaningful or how I'm feeling in this moment but but community is really the most important religion offers one way to find the community but there are there are many many others you know based on things we have in common are

space that that safety of of being able to be vulnerable and say you know this is how this affected me or this is you know this is why this was or wasn't meaningful or how I'm feeling in this moment but but community is really the most important religion offers one way to find the community but there are there are many many others you know based on things we have in common are

shared interests or values. And I think that's really the most important is to find that space where we can be vulnerable, where we can be seen and heard and where we can offer that same respect to other people.

shared interests or values. And I think that's really the most important is to find that space where we can be vulnerable, where we can be seen and heard and where we can offer that same respect to other people.

I think that they are deeply related. They're deeply connected. I wonder if perhaps, religion is the most common or perhaps easiest way to access spirituality. So I think a person can have a relationship with divinity on their own. I like the language of seeking. I can be a seeker asking big questions about the in-touchness or interconnectedness of the world.

I think that they are deeply related. They're deeply connected. I wonder if perhaps, religion is the most common or perhaps easiest way to access spirituality. So I think a person can have a relationship with divinity on their own. I like the language of seeking. I can be a seeker asking big questions about the in-touchness or interconnectedness of the world.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Thank you for having me. I think that community meaning can be found between me and you is my takeaway and together.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Thank you for having me. I think that community meaning can be found between me and you is my takeaway and together.

And that's kind of how I see spirituality. And someone can do that seeking on their own. And I think that religion helps with that, offering a framework and a safe community to ask those questions.

And that's kind of how I see spirituality. And someone can do that seeking on their own. And I think that religion helps with that, offering a framework and a safe community to ask those questions.

Yeah, absolutely. It's beautiful. And they can exist. I think that they help each other, spirituality and religion, but either one can exist. A person can be spiritual. I have congregants, community members, students who say they're spiritual, but not religious. And I think the other can exist as well. You know, we could do a whole

Yeah, absolutely. It's beautiful. And they can exist. I think that they help each other, spirituality and religion, but either one can exist. A person can be spiritual. I have congregants, community members, students who say they're spiritual, but not religious. And I think the other can exist as well. You know, we could do a whole

a different podcast perhaps on Judaism specifically and how there are cultural Jews or, you know, people who, you know, celebrate the holidays, but maybe don't do the prayer and don't do the theology or the divinity and the spirituality. So they can exist, you know, I digress a little bit. They can exist separately, but I think that each is bolstered and made even more meaningful with the other.

a different podcast perhaps on Judaism specifically and how there are cultural Jews or, you know, people who, you know, celebrate the holidays, but maybe don't do the prayer and don't do the theology or the divinity and the spirituality. So they can exist, you know, I digress a little bit. They can exist separately, but I think that each is bolstered and made even more meaningful with the other.

I like that. I think that's a really interesting idea. My understanding of or experience of spirituality is a lot more... based on connection to the world around me. And so it's, whereas my religious practice was largely learned about the holidays, about the liturgy, et cetera.

I like that. I think that's a really interesting idea. My understanding of or experience of spirituality is a lot more... based on connection to the world around me. And so it's, whereas my religious practice was largely learned about the holidays, about the liturgy, et cetera.

And so I hadn't thought much about that until you just said it, but I love that idea that there's almost like innate spirituality within us and That we can work to access and we can work to deepen and we can work to be able to express. But there's just opportunity or potential for spirituality just in the fact that we're alive.

And so I hadn't thought much about that until you just said it, but I love that idea that there's almost like innate spirituality within us and That we can work to access and we can work to deepen and we can work to be able to express. But there's just opportunity or potential for spirituality just in the fact that we're alive.

And I think that perhaps the best thing religion does is offer a space to talk about spirituality because it's one of the... um to experience you know whatever we're thinking of when we say spirituality but to be able to uh express it and um you know talk to someone else about it whether it's a rabbi or someone you know someone sitting next to you and

And I think that perhaps the best thing religion does is offer a space to talk about spirituality because it's one of the... um to experience you know whatever we're thinking of when we say spirituality but to be able to uh express it and um you know talk to someone else about it whether it's a rabbi or someone you know someone sitting next to you and

in synagogue or whatever place of worship, I think that the opportunity to practice expressing, oh, this was meaningful to me, oh, this didn't do anything for me, is how we can expand or grow our spiritual connection.

in synagogue or whatever place of worship, I think that the opportunity to practice expressing, oh, this was meaningful to me, oh, this didn't do anything for me, is how we can expand or grow our spiritual connection.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. I think, I think you're right. I've seen that both in, in congregants and community members who have gone to visit, you know, connected to this job. And also when I was, I did a chaplaincy internship, I guess it could be called in Chicago as part of my schooling, my rabbinical educate rabbinic education.

Yeah. I think, I think you're right. I've seen that both in, in congregants and community members who have gone to visit, you know, connected to this job. And also when I was, I did a chaplaincy internship, I guess it could be called in Chicago as part of my schooling, my rabbinical educate rabbinic education.

And that was when I was, you know, every day going in and seeing not only Jewish patients and their families, but people of any or all faiths, some who had requested a chaplain, others who had not, just kind of doing rounds and checking in with them.

And that was when I was, you know, every day going in and seeing not only Jewish patients and their families, but people of any or all faiths, some who had requested a chaplain, others who had not, just kind of doing rounds and checking in with them.

The first thing that I just want to make clear, I guess, for my own what have you being on this podcast, is that spirituality and prayer is not a substitute for doctors and medical care and I think that there are people out there who perhaps get that confused, but I think that they work together. And it's important to say that that's just before we go further, that's my belief.

The first thing that I just want to make clear, I guess, for my own what have you being on this podcast, is that spirituality and prayer is not a substitute for doctors and medical care and I think that there are people out there who perhaps get that confused, but I think that they work together. And it's important to say that that's just before we go further, that's my belief.

And we certainly can't substitute prayer or religion or what have you for real medicine and doctors and care teams in hospitals. That said, I agree with you that I've seen spirituality, religion, prayer be a big, big part of people's time in hospitals or going through medical treatment, whether it's surgery or something else. I think that there could be any number of reasons for that.

And we certainly can't substitute prayer or religion or what have you for real medicine and doctors and care teams in hospitals. That said, I agree with you that I've seen spirituality, religion, prayer be a big, big part of people's time in hospitals or going through medical treatment, whether it's surgery or something else. I think that there could be any number of reasons for that.

I think a big one is that there's something that spirituality does to fight against isolation. And in that, kind of build community and bring people together. When I was working in the hospital doing chaplaincy, we would ask people, tell me about your support system. What support system do you have? And often that was, friends or family who were coming to visit.

I think a big one is that there's something that spirituality does to fight against isolation. And in that, kind of build community and bring people together. When I was working in the hospital doing chaplaincy, we would ask people, tell me about your support system. What support system do you have? And often that was, friends or family who were coming to visit.

And often it was God or their religious community or their prayer practice. And I think that there's something important about, particularly in this vulnerable moment in their lives, in the hospital or whatever it might be going through an illness, they can feel very isolating. And I wonder if spirituality, if prayer,

And often it was God or their religious community or their prayer practice. And I think that there's something important about, particularly in this vulnerable moment in their lives, in the hospital or whatever it might be going through an illness, they can feel very isolating. And I wonder if spirituality, if prayer,

can fight against that, can give a sense of, oh, I'm in this fight with someone, or I have a community and a connection that I may not be able to see in the room with me, but I know it's there.

can fight against that, can give a sense of, oh, I'm in this fight with someone, or I have a community and a connection that I may not be able to see in the room with me, but I know it's there.

Right. Yeah, certainly. It's, you know, related to what you were saying, you know, also a moment ago. There's having someone to talk to, someone to, again, pray with or sing with. I keep coming back to prayer and music because those are big parts of my own spirituality and spiritual practice.

Right. Yeah, certainly. It's, you know, related to what you were saying, you know, also a moment ago. There's having someone to talk to, someone to, again, pray with or sing with. I keep coming back to prayer and music because those are big parts of my own spirituality and spiritual practice.

But I think it can just be a distraction and help put people even just in a better mood, which, you know, if they're more willing, you know, I don't know if it's giving them a positive attitude. outlook or, or just being calmer, but then it can help them be more ready to listen to, to the rest of the care team, uh, more ready to receive, um, receive whatever care that they need.

But I think it can just be a distraction and help put people even just in a better mood, which, you know, if they're more willing, you know, I don't know if it's giving them a positive attitude. outlook or, or just being calmer, but then it can help them be more ready to listen to, to the rest of the care team, uh, more ready to receive, um, receive whatever care that they need.

And, and it's all, it's all related. I think that it's important to, to see chaplains as a part of the care team, which doesn't, doesn't always happen, but, but, uh, my experience was very positive in the hospital I worked in, uh, in that way.

And, and it's all, it's all related. I think that it's important to, to see chaplains as a part of the care team, which doesn't, doesn't always happen, but, but, uh, my experience was very positive in the hospital I worked in, uh, in that way.

people by getting them just to laugh right and how many of us have said from time to time that you know laughter is a great a great medicine and it really is it makes you feel good it is and to have people dedicated you know in in the the hospital uh um environment who are uh don't have five million other things to to be worrying about and keeping in mind um uh because you

people by getting them just to laugh right and how many of us have said from time to time that you know laughter is a great a great medicine and it really is it makes you feel good it is and to have people dedicated you know in in the the hospital uh um environment who are uh don't have five million other things to to be worrying about and keeping in mind um uh because you