Rose Griffin
Appearances
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
Well, and everybody's, every autistic person and every autistic person's family experience is going to be so different because every person's so different. You know, you might have somebody who is on grade level academically or gifted, but is struggling with social emotional or social skills. And you may have somebody who is not yet speaking, is not able to go to the restroom on their own.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
And it's just everything's so different. So yeah, I think if we come from a place of trying to listen, and understand, then that makes us better clinicians. That's why on my podcast, I try to have on clinicians, but then I also have autistic adults on and everybody just to try to be better at what we're doing to try to support people. Yeah.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
Yeah, something that we really focus on a lot in the field of speech therapy and ABA is called joint attention. Just really, in layman's terms, it's shared engagement. So what can we do together that would be fun so that you want to engage with me, not because You're going to get an external reinforcer like a piece of candy or something like that.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
But we're just going to do this activity because the activity is actually fun. And so, you know, there's lots of behaviors that are like pointing and showing and eye contact and things like that. And so the way that I talk about that is a three-pronged approach of using books, music, and I love music that has motions because imitation, like Wheels on the Bus, another really good one, and play.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
So like Bubbles or Simon Says, just so we're doing activities together. And we have seen once we build that shared social reciprocity, then that really is going to help our student then find a way to communicate with the world.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
And then once a student is able to either use pictures or a device or their own verbal speech, then we just keep working on, you know, more advanced skills until the student is as independent as possible with communication.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
Yeah, I just love the field. I've been doing it over 20 years, and I still really enjoy it, so.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I had a student that I worked with in a specialized program. He was 10. He had a beautiful augmentative communication device like iPad with a software on there set up, but he did not use it at all. He could not go anywhere. He could not have any other classmates in his room because it was unsafe.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
He had to have two people working with him because it was unsafe to have one. He couldn't go in the community. His grandparents couldn't come over. And so he was 10. And so we just really, inch by inch, systematically worked on him using his device by himself. And it was cool. I worked with that student for three years. We saw a major decrease in his unsafe problem behavior.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
He can now work, because I still know his teacher. He can now work with one person. He is in a classroom with others, but kind of has his own space. And even towards the end, when I was working with him, he was able to independently use his device. And he was able to go into the community and order Dairy Queen on his device. I used to show videos of him.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
His parents allowed me in some of the trainings that I did. And I think that you nailed it on the head. It's like sometimes, especially if there's a kid who is not yet speaking and they don't make any progress in public school, and then they start to go aggressive. Let's say they're 8, 9, or 10, and then they've never been able to communicate properly.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
that school team doesn't know how to help them. And then they turn 10 and they're aggressive towards staff. This is something that happens all the time. And then the school district may say, you know what, I think you need to go to specialized program to this really robust intervention. And that is giving the parents hope like, wow, these people really get my child.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
My child's able to go to a school where they can relate to others. And they're really, really learning Some public school districts are great, and others just have never met a learner that has needs like that. And so it's this delicate balance of knowing how to support all students.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
Right.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. With the right intervention and support. And I think what's nice about applied behavior analysis too is it's covered by insurance now. That's why it's grown so rapidly because every state is covered by insurance. The one part that is nice is that usually it's the insurance mandate of the students getting ABA services. They
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
Yes.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
the parent also has to get and engage in parent training. Like you said, support for parents. You know, because as a speech therapist, it's great if I can talk with parents, but it's not mandated by insurance. So it's not a have to, but with ABA, it's a have to. It's usually mandated by insurance, which is nice because parents need support.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
They need to know what's going on and what's working in therapy and what can be generalized to home.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
I think covered a lot of things. I think if your child's not yet speaking and the pediatrician says, well, let's just wait and see, you definitely have early intervention. Every single state here in the United States has early intervention where you can contact your state level organization to get an assessment.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
Right.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
I think early intervention is so important because your brain is just, it's ready to learn. So having that type of support is important. And then if you have any listeners that are international,
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
There could be speech therapists that, you know, I do international consults in Pakistan and Dubai and London and all different places with parents because there are speech therapists there and there are BCBAs, but not everybody feels comfortable supporting autistic learners or has that type of experience.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
And so that's another reason that online is nice too, where you can reach out to people who you like, know, and trust that could help you, guide you on your autism journey, you know?
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
Right, yeah. So a lot of cultural barriers too. Mm-hmm.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
Yeah, visit me at abaspeech.org. We have a parent membership. We have a parent who does monthly tutorials all about behavior, communication, and we do courses, and there's lots and lots of support. If you're not ready for that, if you just visit me at abaspeech.org, we have a lot of really nice resources that will be a support immediately for you and your child.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
Yeah, nice to meet you.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
Thank you, Tony.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
Yeah, no, that's a great question. I think, you know, when I was in school, the incidence rate of autism was 242, maybe more than that. So we really didn't talk about autism a lot. I didn't have a specific autism course. I just, I remember when I was in school and doing externships, I worked at a public school and we had a lot of autistic students and those are always my favorite students.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
So then when I got out my second year, then I worked at a place called the Learner School, which is part of the Cleveland Clinic. And it was all autism. Every single learner was autistic. And that's always what I've wanted to do. So I just never looked back. Obviously, as a speech therapist, I work with a variety of clients.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
But really, for the most of my clinical life, I have specialized in helping autistic learners. And I've worked with all different types of students. But I'm really specializing with my business, ABA Speech, of helping kids who don't have a way to communicate, find a way to communicate, whether it be verbally or with an augmentative communication device. Yeah, that's always been my passion.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
No, not at all. Not really. And I mean, I don't, not that I'm aware of. Looking back on some kids in high school, I think there's one kid who, I don't know if he had a diagnosis back then. He is autistic and I'm kind of friends with him like online on LinkedIn, you know, as an adult now. And he's mentioned like, oh, I think it's so cool what you're doing and all that with ABA speech.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
But no, not really. Not really. No.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
Yeah, I mean, the incidence rate has changed a ton. So now I think it's one in 36, I believe the CDC has said. And we used to say it's four to one boys to girls, but I don't really use that statistic because there's a lot of talk that girls are just not diagnosed as early because of a lot of different things. There are characteristics.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
I've had a lot of autistic females on my podcast who were diagnosed a lot later in life just because of a variety of reasons. And so for that reason, And I feel like a lot of people, like I did, never took a course on autism. So you're really kind of just learning as your caseload evolves, right? You're in a school and maybe you're in a specialized program.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
And I always sought out those programs where I would be working just with autistic learners, where I would be really helping kids who did not have a way to communicate, whether they be 5, 10, 18. That was really what I was passionate about. But I really learned on the job.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
Yeah.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
Yeah.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
Yeah.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
Yeah. In real life, people love the fact that I'm both a speech therapist and a BCBA. There are about 400 to 500 people in the entire world that are both. So it really allows me to talk to both groups. Yeah.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
Yeah, yeah. So a speech-language pathologist really learns our scope of practice is really broad. We could help people who have swallowing disorders. We could help people who have had strokes, feeding concerns, language issues. Autism is just one small piece of really what we do within our scope of competence and practice.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
And for board-certified behavior analysts, that's a totally different profession. And we can do lots of different things. Really kind of helping people in the autism world is like increase functional behavior that is important. And what I specialize in is communication.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
And then if we do have students who are engaging in potentially unsafe problem behavior where they can't go to a public school or their grandparents can't come over or they can't go to church. trying to talk with the client, the family, and decide like, well, why is that behavior occurring?
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
And usually, not always, but you could see like if we are able to help a student increase their ability to communicate, we usually see that behavior trending down because oftentimes kids will not have a way to communicate because they haven't been taught, they haven't had the right intervention, it's been hard to reach them, and then they're navigating their world by using behavior.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
I love Temple Granite. I heard her talk when I lived in Austin, Texas. And I mean, I think it's with a lot of things. It really does. It's just like doctors. It depends on the provider. You could work with a doctor who's awesome, who makes you feel really cared for. And then you could work with somebody who you feel like you're wasting their time because they need to get onto the next room, right?
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
So it depends.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
Yeah, exactly. Right. So it depends. I mean, I try on my platform at ADA Speech to show how you can provide naturalistic instruction for autistic learners. And I do think applied behavior analysis is kind of having this rebirth where we're talking about, it's always been in the research and literature, but a sense, you know, child led therapy, not compliance based.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
Although sometimes, you know, sometimes compliance as far as following directions and things like that. I have a friend who her friend and her autistic son died in a house fire because just within the past five years because he wouldn't leave the house. So sometimes compliance for safety and medical issues is something that is still important.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
Just have fun and just play and see what they like to do. Find out what they love and enjoy and just try to be present and kind of parallel play is really just kind of being with them. Bubbles are, if it's a younger child, I love bubbles because they go away and then you can blow them.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
Music, some kids like books, but for sure, bubbles, play, just seeing what the kid loves and enjoys, especially if you're seeing somebody in their home, that's a whole other dynamic.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
Where they're at home, they have all their things. And it's nice because you can talk with parents. I also work in a school, so that's a different atmosphere where you don't get to see the parents as much.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
But just trying to be somebody when they see me that they are like, oh, there's Miss Rose. She's fun. She gets me. And so just having a good time. I have three kids of my own, so I feel like I'm good at all that stuff.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
No. Mm-mm.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
Yeah, I feel like every learner is so different. And I did work at the middle school, high school level for 10 years. So I really have a decent amount of experience with that. I think some kids, they're just, you know, they're in a really supportive environment. They are maybe on grade level academically.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
I'm thinking of one kid and they do some autistic type, you know, stereotypy with their hands, but they don't really, doesn't bother them, doesn't bother anybody in their atmosphere. So that child may not even need therapy. You know what I mean? Versus somebody who maybe does have support needs in the area of social skills.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
I talk with that student and say, you know, just think of me as like your social skills coach, because just like you said, middle school and high school, those are really nuanced times for social skills for everyone. for all people. And so to have somebody to guide you, and what's hard about that is there's no curriculum.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
There's a lot of social skills curriculum, but there's not going to be anything that comes out that's individualized for your student.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
You know, when I was working with kids at that age level, I used a lot of video modeling where we take a video of me maybe engaging in the skill, like answering a question in class or during COVID, you know, I had a kid who needed to practice asking for a mask break and all these things that are super, super specific. So I always try to use video modeling, which anybody can do with a phone.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
You just take a video of the skill and then you show it to the learner and you practice.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
Oh, yeah. I mean, I worked in private placements where the students, I always had to have somebody with me because it was just unsafe for me to be by myself if a student had unsafe problem behavior. So students like that are usually working with a speech-language pathologist, a board-certified behavior analyst, families very involved.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
And oftentimes, students that are at those outside placements, that's their least restrictive environment because they can't be educated appropriately or safely in a public school. So they just have really robust intervention where everybody's on the same page with the idea being we really want to help that student not engage in those behaviors and understand why that's occurring.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
And then always there's a tie to communication. There's just almost always a tie that there is communication.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
support needs in the area of communication so how can we beef up that communication and really communication is something that in those specialized programs usually is just worked on all day every day because that really is usually the most important thing for students they're frustrated and they can't communicate what they want to and it's hard for them yeah
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
Mm-hmm.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
Yeah, I think there's a lot. And I really can just speak mostly from, because the kids that I've worked with, individuals have all had a diagnosis, but the people that I've had on my podcast that are females that have been diagnosed later in life, we talk about masking.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
So I think that talking about masking, understanding that giving a name to something that people were probably just doing and that it has a negative consequence. And I think that there's just so much more information out there, which can be good and which can be bad, you know, can be like information overload.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
Yeah, no problem. Somebody did an audit of my podcast and they said your podcast is one that I should be on. That's how I found out about your podcast.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
But for people who are dealing with that, you know, just being in a supportive environment, right? It's like kind of doing some coaching with whoever's in the environment too, right? Peers and depends on your community, right? How inclusive it is and where you're at at baseline. And if there's any other... autistic students. It just really depends on how big your school district is.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
I've worked in big districts and small districts, and sometimes the small districts are just hard because you may not have any other kid who has an interest in Dungeons and Dragons or something that's really specific. And so, you know, because we always say, like, you really, it's nice to have one friend, right? You just need one friend.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
But sometimes when you're thinking about, like, how can I facilitate this? Or this student seems lonely. Sometimes in smaller districts, that is hard because the student may have a special interest. And because it's a small area, maybe nobody else has that. But with online, that is a little bit easier to, you know, connect with others and things like that that have similar interests.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
Yeah, I mean, I think it's just all about autism acceptance. I mean, I think we used to call April Autism Awareness Month, but maybe now it's called Autism Acceptance. I may be saying that wrong. But, you know, I always say every single day is Autism 101 Day at ABA Speech.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
So I just always share, like, if you look on my Instagram, ABA Speech by Rose, I just share, you know, I share from autistic adults. I'll share information about early signs of autism. And it's not to scare anybody. It's just to say, like you said, if you're child's autistic, they may have support needs. And why wouldn't you want to give your child what they need?
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
Like, why would you want them to struggle with, you know, toileting or speaking or walking? All those things that every child is going to be different. And just because you have autism doesn't necessarily mean you need any services either. You know, you could have an autism diagnosis, but if you're doing fine in school, it doesn't have an adverse impact on your educational performance.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
You may not have any services. You know, like Stephen Shore said, if you met one person with autism, you met one person with autism. And that really is true. So I feel like now there is a lot of controversy online if you spend too much time online, like I probably do. With that is good and bad, right? I do think autism is just more in the forefront.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
Actually, my mom gave me a career test when I was a senior in high school, and it said I should be a speech therapist. And then I just, I shadowed a family friend, and that was it. I became a speech therapist. I never took any classes that I didn't need to, and I knew I wanted to do that. And you have to get a master's degree, so six years of school. Yeah, so immediately, once I entered undergrad.
Tony Mantor: Why Not Me the World
Rose Griffin:The Path to Inclusive Support and Autism Awarenes
And it's just like, oh, yeah, you know, that, yeah, he has autism or they're autistic. It's more of like a cultural thing. thing too, I think.