Seth Wickersham

There's no doubt. And I think that what makes that interesting is that that reflects a lot of the coach, GM, and owner divide in the NFL. I mean, I think they rank and file coaches. Ask Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahan, Sean Payton. Ask any of those guys if they think Bill Belichick should be coaching in the NFL, and you won't even be able to finish the sentence before they say yes.

There's no doubt. And I think that what makes that interesting is that that reflects a lot of the coach, GM, and owner divide in the NFL. I mean, I think they rank and file coaches. Ask Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahan, Sean Payton. Ask any of those guys if they think Bill Belichick should be coaching in the NFL, and you won't even be able to finish the sentence before they say yes.

Whereas at the GM level, though, and the ownership level, there's just so much concern. And I think that part of it is his record. Part of it is, you know, that for, you know, the last half of the dynasty, certainly, you know, Robert Kraft made it a secret that he could be impossible to work with at times, even as they were winning. But,

Whereas at the GM level, though, and the ownership level, there's just so much concern. And I think that part of it is his record. Part of it is, you know, that for, you know, the last half of the dynasty, certainly, you know, Robert Kraft made it a secret that he could be impossible to work with at times, even as they were winning. But,

I think that there's just a sense that even if Belichick is willing to be deferential to existing infrastructures and existing GMs, whoever they might be, there's a sense that if you hire this guy, you got to kind of let him do it his way and give him the keys, even if he's not technically asking for it.

I think that there's just a sense that even if Belichick is willing to be deferential to existing infrastructures and existing GMs, whoever they might be, there's a sense that if you hire this guy, you got to kind of let him do it his way and give him the keys, even if he's not technically asking for it.

And I think what changed, 2024 has been an interesting year for Belichick, and we should talk about that. But what changed, I think, was that I think that he began to think, maybe I don't really want this.

And I think what changed, 2024 has been an interesting year for Belichick, and we should talk about that. But what changed, I think, was that I think that he began to think, maybe I don't really want this.

And I don't want to take the risk and wait in January, hoping that I might get one interview and might get one job when I can go to a program that I've got a little bit of history with, have the space to win or lose on my terms and my career that way.

And I don't want to take the risk and wait in January, hoping that I might get one interview and might get one job when I can go to a program that I've got a little bit of history with, have the space to win or lose on my terms and my career that way.

Totally. And I think that, yeah, it's first of all, to go back to like the early part of the dynasty, like, you know, you and I talked about it when my Patriots book came out. I mean, those were hugely formative years because Belichick finally had the, the, the people, the quarterback in place to do what he had had in his mind for so long in terms of like being able to create an actual team.

Totally. And I think that, yeah, it's first of all, to go back to like the early part of the dynasty, like, you know, you and I talked about it when my Patriots book came out. I mean, those were hugely formative years because Belichick finally had the, the, the people, the quarterback in place to do what he had had in his mind for so long in terms of like being able to create an actual team.

And, and, you know, that's where that ethos started. And I think that, like, Wright Thompson and I and Van Natta reported on it a year ago or so that, you know, Belichick really felt like the Crafts had eroded what he had built in the past couple of years.

And, and, you know, that's where that ethos started. And I think that, like, Wright Thompson and I and Van Natta reported on it a year ago or so that, you know, Belichick really felt like the Crafts had eroded what he had built in the past couple of years.

Crafts, of course, were pissed off that he let Brady walk out and, you know, he told Crafts that Brady couldn't play anymore and he goes and wins the Super Bowl. But then... Yeah, 2024. He gets fired by the Crafts, even though they call it a mutual parting of ways. Craft later comes out and says that he was fired.

Crafts, of course, were pissed off that he let Brady walk out and, you know, he told Crafts that Brady couldn't play anymore and he goes and wins the Super Bowl. But then... Yeah, 2024. He gets fired by the Crafts, even though they call it a mutual parting of ways. Craft later comes out and says that he was fired.

Exactly. And then you have seven openings. And only one team shows any interest in him. He meets with the owner twice. And then the next thing you know, he's voted off the island, as we reported about. You're talking about Atlanta. Atlanta. And he was willing to work with GM Terry Fontenot. He was willing to work with Rich McKay, even though there's a lot of history there. Yeah.

Exactly. And then you have seven openings. And only one team shows any interest in him. He meets with the owner twice. And then the next thing you know, he's voted off the island, as we reported about. You're talking about Atlanta. Atlanta. And he was willing to work with GM Terry Fontenot. He was willing to work with Rich McKay, even though there's a lot of history there. Yeah.

But, you know, at the end of the day, they not only went with Raheem Morris, but they made a decision against Belichick, like didn't finish in any of the decision makers' top three candidates.

But, you know, at the end of the day, they not only went with Raheem Morris, but they made a decision against Belichick, like didn't finish in any of the decision makers' top three candidates.

Well, it was our reporting. I mean, it's a little bit different than they leaked it. But yeah, we learned about it.

Well, it was our reporting. I mean, it's a little bit different than they leaked it. But yeah, we learned about it.

Yes.

Yes.

Absolutely. So he gets shut out. Then you have the dynasty comes out, which just really roundly dismisses his influence in that team's historic run. So start this season. He's got his media gigs. But every week, he and a lot of the old Patriots assistants who are also out of work would do these Zooms.

Absolutely. So he gets shut out. Then you have the dynasty comes out, which just really roundly dismisses his influence in that team's historic run. So start this season. He's got his media gigs. But every week, he and a lot of the old Patriots assistants who are also out of work would do these Zooms.

And they would go through every team, every game, every situation, these high-level conversations. And I think the subtext of it all is like, what teams and organizations sound good for us if the situation comes up? And there wasn't a lot of back channel communication with owners. I think that the Brian Flores lawsuit has impacted that greatly.

And they would go through every team, every game, every situation, these high-level conversations. And I think the subtext of it all is like, what teams and organizations sound good for us if the situation comes up? And there wasn't a lot of back channel communication with owners. I think that the Brian Flores lawsuit has impacted that greatly.

well, it's an ongoing discrimination lawsuit against the league and three teams. And I think that owners don't want to get wrapped up in that. They don't want to be part of that. They don't want to violate the Rooney rule. And so I'm not convinced that Belichick wouldn't have ended up with an NFL job. I just think we're never going to know.

well, it's an ongoing discrimination lawsuit against the league and three teams. And I think that owners don't want to get wrapped up in that. They don't want to be part of that. They don't want to violate the Rooney rule. And so I'm not convinced that Belichick wouldn't have ended up with an NFL job. I just think we're never going to know.

And I think that the ones that he thought he might have a chance at just didn't seem appealing enough. And I think that on those Zoom calls, Midway through the season, all of a sudden, the college game just seemed much more appealing to him. And he wanted to discuss certain programs, how it would work if they tried to implement some of the Patriot way at that level.

And I think that the ones that he thought he might have a chance at just didn't seem appealing enough. And I think that on those Zoom calls, Midway through the season, all of a sudden, the college game just seemed much more appealing to him. And he wanted to discuss certain programs, how it would work if they tried to implement some of the Patriot way at that level.

And again, I was as shocked as anybody. I think you and I were texting about it when North Carolina came up. And, you know, it's not Notre Dame exactly, but he felt like this is a good place to end his career the way that he wants to end his career, which is, you know, working with people that he cares about, that he likes, and winning or losing on his terms.

And again, I was as shocked as anybody. I think you and I were texting about it when North Carolina came up. And, you know, it's not Notre Dame exactly, but he felt like this is a good place to end his career the way that he wants to end his career, which is, you know, working with people that he cares about, that he likes, and winning or losing on his terms.

And it's out west. I think consistently he really didn't want to go out west.

And it's out west. I think consistently he really didn't want to go out west.

Yeah, and I mean, again, one of those situations is interesting. I mean, Dallas is interesting to me because nobody can take a collection of talent and turn them into a team quite like Belichick. But again... can the Jones share the spotlight with someone like Belichick?

Yeah, and I mean, again, one of those situations is interesting. I mean, Dallas is interesting to me because nobody can take a collection of talent and turn them into a team quite like Belichick. But again... can the Jones share the spotlight with someone like Belichick?

I have no doubt that they could all get along, but I don't know if Jerry Jones values coaches enough to go after someone like Bill. Well, he had Jason Garrett for eight years or nine years, so we know the answer to that already. Exactly. And so I think that, again, he saw the Giants as a rebuild, but he also believes that Brian Dayball has done a good job. Yeah.

I have no doubt that they could all get along, but I don't know if Jerry Jones values coaches enough to go after someone like Bill. Well, he had Jason Garrett for eight years or nine years, so we know the answer to that already. Exactly. And so I think that, again, he saw the Giants as a rebuild, but he also believes that Brian Dayball has done a good job. Yeah.

It's almost like you take yourself out of the running for that if they were even considering it. And, you know, again, this is all just, I think that like, and even Cincinnati, I mean, remember when he would go on his podcast or on the McAfee show, I mean, he was really critical of Burrow.

It's almost like you take yourself out of the running for that if they were even considering it. And, you know, again, this is all just, I think that like, and even Cincinnati, I mean, remember when he would go on his podcast or on the McAfee show, I mean, he was really critical of Burrow.

And usually when he does that publicly, you know that there's a lot more there in terms of his private scouting report of a certain player. Yeah.

And usually when he does that publicly, you know that there's a lot more there in terms of his private scouting report of a certain player. Yeah.

I loved it. It was really fun. It was really fun. I mean, that's all we've wanted, right? Because what you have is the... you know, for all these decades, you knew, you know, you had his public performance, which was, you know, very buttoned up. And then the things you would learn about what they were like behind the scenes and the way that they would,

I loved it. It was really fun. It was really fun. I mean, that's all we've wanted, right? Because what you have is the... you know, for all these decades, you knew, you know, you had his public performance, which was, you know, very buttoned up. And then the things you would learn about what they were like behind the scenes and the way that they would,

really, you know, put so much thought into like all these decisions. It was just mind blowing. And so I loved like just getting a glimpse of that this year from him.

really, you know, put so much thought into like all these decisions. It was just mind blowing. And so I loved like just getting a glimpse of that this year from him.

Yeah, I interviewed, I was talking with Peyton Manning earlier this year for my quarterbacks book. And, you know, he was talking about how Belichick just loves coming on the Manning cast and loves watching punts.

Yeah, I interviewed, I was talking with Peyton Manning earlier this year for my quarterbacks book. And, you know, he was talking about how Belichick just loves coming on the Manning cast and loves watching punts.

And then you watched him when we had an Atlanta game, and I think he was on the Manning cast. And, you know, he's just ripping them for sloppy tackling and things like that. And, you know, that was a job. Obviously, they made a point of making sure everyone knew why they didn't hire him. And so, you know, I enjoyed that stuff quite a bit.

And then you watched him when we had an Atlanta game, and I think he was on the Manning cast. And, you know, he's just ripping them for sloppy tackling and things like that. And, you know, that was a job. Obviously, they made a point of making sure everyone knew why they didn't hire him. And so, you know, I enjoyed that stuff quite a bit.

Never would have happened. So there was definitely no chance.

Never would have happened. So there was definitely no chance.

I know I'm trying to think if there's, I mean, you just look at the toxicity of how that ended. And I don't know if there's a sports parallel where they could have like mended that again. I mean, Phil Jackson, Jerry Krause. I was thinking about that and that wasn't going to, I mean, it got pretty bad. I mean, you saw the body language at the press conference when they let Belichick go.

I know I'm trying to think if there's, I mean, you just look at the toxicity of how that ended. And I don't know if there's a sports parallel where they could have like mended that again. I mean, Phil Jackson, Jerry Krause. I was thinking about that and that wasn't going to, I mean, it got pretty bad. I mean, you saw the body language at the press conference when they let Belichick go.

You saw it at the Brady roast.

You saw it at the Brady roast.

And, yeah, I mean, I'm with you. Like, on paper, in terms of, like, if you're looking at the situation that's kind of best suited for him, where you're taking a team that... you know, again, needs to kind of like come together and play smarter, that might be, you know, the Patriots might be his forte. But yeah, that was never going to happen this year.

And, yeah, I mean, I'm with you. Like, on paper, in terms of, like, if you're looking at the situation that's kind of best suited for him, where you're taking a team that... you know, again, needs to kind of like come together and play smarter, that might be, you know, the Patriots might be his forte. But yeah, that was never going to happen this year.

I think it is important, but it's not the thing. It's not why he gets out of bed in the morning. It's not what really motivates him. And I think that probably given a year off, he was able to reflect a little bit on what are the essential things that I enjoy about this job.

I think it is important, but it's not the thing. It's not why he gets out of bed in the morning. It's not what really motivates him. And I think that probably given a year off, he was able to reflect a little bit on what are the essential things that I enjoy about this job.

And I think that one of the things with the New York Giants, let's say he had gone there, and he knows that it's going to take a year to get that team back. he would have been going through his third straight coaching year. So 22, 23, and then next year with, you know, the media on him and whether he's lost his fastball, a daily, you know, piece of speculation and content.

And I think that one of the things with the New York Giants, let's say he had gone there, and he knows that it's going to take a year to get that team back. he would have been going through his third straight coaching year. So 22, 23, and then next year with, you know, the media on him and whether he's lost his fastball, a daily, you know, piece of speculation and content.

And I don't think he really wanted to deal with that. And I think that like, it's one of the college football media is a little different than the NFL. Um, And I think that like, even though it's intense in its own way, it's like, that's something that he won't really have to contend with. I think when he's in North Carolina.

And I don't think he really wanted to deal with that. And I think that like, it's one of the college football media is a little different than the NFL. Um, And I think that like, even though it's intense in its own way, it's like, that's something that he won't really have to contend with. I think when he's in North Carolina.

Absolutely, and I think that that was something that a year ago, when the Eagles were at the highest levels, were talking about, hey look, you know, he's available. Do we, do we make a move here? You know, that was one of the things that was considered is that like, even though those group of minds for the longest time were just like so desired in NFL circles, right?

Absolutely, and I think that that was something that a year ago, when the Eagles were at the highest levels, were talking about, hey look, you know, he's available. Do we, do we make a move here? You know, that was one of the things that was considered is that like, even though those group of minds for the longest time were just like so desired in NFL circles, right?

I mean, owners just could not wait to try to tap into his thinking until they realize, you know, that it's, it's so singular. His system is not a playbook like Bill Walsh's. It's literally his decision-making in real time. Um, They thought he doesn't necessarily have the best record of developing coaches and considering if he comes in, you have to kind of let him run it his way.

I mean, owners just could not wait to try to tap into his thinking until they realize, you know, that it's, it's so singular. His system is not a playbook like Bill Walsh's. It's literally his decision-making in real time. Um, They thought he doesn't necessarily have the best record of developing coaches and considering if he comes in, you have to kind of let him run it his way.

Are you doing this again in two years? Are you blowing up the building again? Or do you give someone a third shot at being a head coach or one of the people out of that group, a second shot at being a head coach? And so those things were definitely on minds. I think that with Belichick, just him having been in the NFL for half a century now and been in the public eye

Are you doing this again in two years? Are you blowing up the building again? Or do you give someone a third shot at being a head coach or one of the people out of that group, a second shot at being a head coach? And so those things were definitely on minds. I think that with Belichick, just him having been in the NFL for half a century now and been in the public eye

really for most of the last 30 or so years, is that there's just enough material out there that if you want to lay out a convincing conversation as to why you don't want to hire him, it's there. But his record is also there. And I mean, just imagine him going through what he went through last January and February,

really for most of the last 30 or so years, is that there's just enough material out there that if you want to lay out a convincing conversation as to why you don't want to hire him, it's there. But his record is also there. And I mean, just imagine him going through what he went through last January and February,

And then having to go on his podcast and on the McAfee show and everything and explain to us and him trying to do it politely, just how stupid some of the coaching is in the NFL. I mean, when they have to bring him on to explain what happened at the end of the Bears-Lions game. And I mean, this is stuff that he knows how to do in his sleep. I mean, he is the one who with the clock

And then having to go on his podcast and on the McAfee show and everything and explain to us and him trying to do it politely, just how stupid some of the coaching is in the NFL. I mean, when they have to bring him on to explain what happened at the end of the Bears-Lions game. And I mean, this is stuff that he knows how to do in his sleep. I mean, he is the one who with the clock

melting down against the Seahawks, saw confusion, saw personnel change, calls, you know, go line three. I think that was the name of it. Butler goes in, all that stuff comes together in a way that I can't ever see being replicated again. So much preparation and thought and execution and stones, for lack of a better word. And yet, you know, you're watching...

melting down against the Seahawks, saw confusion, saw personnel change, calls, you know, go line three. I think that was the name of it. Butler goes in, all that stuff comes together in a way that I can't ever see being replicated again. So much preparation and thought and execution and stones, for lack of a better word. And yet, you know, you're watching...

these coaches screw up game situations all the time. And they bring him on to try to explain why. And these are the guys who have jobs right now.

these coaches screw up game situations all the time. And they bring him on to try to explain why. And these are the guys who have jobs right now.

Absolutely, and I think a year ago, I think it was a year ago, there was a, you know, they have owners meetings, and then they have the privilege meeting, which is just owners, and maybe they're family members, but it's not team executives. And I think that it was in a privilege session where the league presented some data

Absolutely, and I think a year ago, I think it was a year ago, there was a, you know, they have owners meetings, and then they have the privilege meeting, which is just owners, and maybe they're family members, but it's not team executives. And I think that it was in a privilege session where the league presented some data

as to the total amount of money that owners are paying coaches that are no longer working for them. And it was a staggering amount. And then it prompted all this discussion about the value of coaches, are we paying these guys too much? All this stuff. But the bottom line is that most owners are not good at this.

as to the total amount of money that owners are paying coaches that are no longer working for them. And it was a staggering amount. And then it prompted all this discussion about the value of coaches, are we paying these guys too much? All this stuff. But the bottom line is that most owners are not good at this.

And even if you're invested in a GM, I don't want to pick on him, but let's just say Terry Fontenot or whoever it might be. Why not... Why not have an owner who says, look, I'm going to keep you around.

And even if you're invested in a GM, I don't want to pick on him, but let's just say Terry Fontenot or whoever it might be. Why not... Why not have an owner who says, look, I'm going to keep you around.

I want you to absorb as much as you can from this guy while we have two to three years with him so that we can take the best pieces going forward after he sets the record and rides off into the sunset. That would be some really strategic thinking on an owner's part.

I want you to absorb as much as you can from this guy while we have two to three years with him so that we can take the best pieces going forward after he sets the record and rides off into the sunset. That would be some really strategic thinking on an owner's part.

And owner's you bring up two interesting points. I mean, number one is that a lot of them are kind of risk-averse and conflict-averse, which I think, you know, within that context, it makes you realize just, you know, how ballsy it was for Robert Kraft to trade a first-round pick for Belichick back in 2000.

And owner's you bring up two interesting points. I mean, number one is that a lot of them are kind of risk-averse and conflict-averse, which I think, you know, within that context, it makes you realize just, you know, how ballsy it was for Robert Kraft to trade a first-round pick for Belichick back in 2000.

Absolutely. And then... The thing is, though, is that you're right. I mean, like, groupthink takes over. Like, even though these guys are, you know, in charge of these multi-billion dollar businesses, and even though they're all bosses in their own right of whatever other businesses they might own, When you see votes taken in the NFL, there's not a lot of close votes.

Absolutely. And then... The thing is, though, is that you're right. I mean, like, groupthink takes over. Like, even though these guys are, you know, in charge of these multi-billion dollar businesses, and even though they're all bosses in their own right of whatever other businesses they might own, When you see votes taken in the NFL, there's not a lot of close votes.

They're almost always 31 to 1 because Mike Brown never votes. Whatever it might be. Groupthink does just take over. And I think that, like we said, they can use whatever excuse they want for why they don't want to hire Belichick. But... It doesn't look good for all of them.

They're almost always 31 to 1 because Mike Brown never votes. Whatever it might be. Groupthink does just take over. And I think that, like we said, they can use whatever excuse they want for why they don't want to hire Belichick. But... It doesn't look good for all of them.

It doesn't look good that this guy left and went to college to a mid-level program while we're watching just like so much bad coaching every week.

It doesn't look good that this guy left and went to college to a mid-level program while we're watching just like so much bad coaching every week.

My gut tells me he'll do pretty well there. Now, look, I don't know what that means. Does that mean they make the playoffs? I don't exactly know. But I think when you have a legend who still feels like he has something to prove and is really sharp, I think history usually lends itself pretty well to those guys. And I think that clearly this was a space that

My gut tells me he'll do pretty well there. Now, look, I don't know what that means. Does that mean they make the playoffs? I don't exactly know. But I think when you have a legend who still feels like he has something to prove and is really sharp, I think history usually lends itself pretty well to those guys. And I think that clearly this was a space that

in 2024 really just started to appeal to him. And from the people I've talked to closest to him, again, in September, when they started these meetings and they're going through all these games, I don't think that they were thinking what college program might come open that would be cool.

in 2024 really just started to appeal to him. And from the people I've talked to closest to him, again, in September, when they started these meetings and they're going through all these games, I don't think that they were thinking what college program might come open that would be cool.

It was really as the season went on and he became more intrigued with the college game that he asked these guys to look into some of these programs a little bit more. Well, what would it look like if we took my methodologies and tried to adapt them to this? Um, you know, how would that go?

It was really as the season went on and he became more intrigued with the college game that he asked these guys to look into some of these programs a little bit more. Well, what would it look like if we took my methodologies and tried to adapt them to this? Um, you know, how would that go?

And, you know, is the ability to knowing that I'll be able to win or lose on my own terms worth the risk of not interviewing or, you know, yeah. Yeah. Before any of those jobs come open and, and, you know, it was really kind of a resounding yes.

And, you know, is the ability to knowing that I'll be able to win or lose on my own terms worth the risk of not interviewing or, you know, yeah. Yeah. Before any of those jobs come open and, and, you know, it was really kind of a resounding yes.

It's a pretty good pitch. And I also think that it'll be interesting to see which NFL teams end up drafting out of that program most. When he had the first run with the Patriots, when they win three out of four Super Bowls, and then his system got raided around the NFL, he had some tough drafts there.

It's a pretty good pitch. And I also think that it'll be interesting to see which NFL teams end up drafting out of that program most. When he had the first run with the Patriots, when they win three out of four Super Bowls, and then his system got raided around the NFL, he had some tough drafts there.

And one of the reasons was because all of a sudden, what felt like half the league was looking for the type of player that only he was looking for before. And so all of a sudden, there was a premium on those types of players. Now... Who knows exactly? I mean, it would be interesting to see if the Chargers, if the Ravens, if... Oh, teams that he has connections with?

And one of the reasons was because all of a sudden, what felt like half the league was looking for the type of player that only he was looking for before. And so all of a sudden, there was a premium on those types of players. Now... Who knows exactly? I mean, it would be interesting to see if the Chargers, if the Ravens, if... Oh, teams that he has connections with?

Yes, teams that he would have connections with. The Giants, Denver. If those types of teams end up really looking hard at North Carolina players and wanting them because they'll have a better sense that they're mentally equipped to handle the rigors of the NFL, name another coach who can get you ready for it. I think that Jim Harbaugh at Michigan could probably do it pretty well.

Yes, teams that he would have connections with. The Giants, Denver. If those types of teams end up really looking hard at North Carolina players and wanting them because they'll have a better sense that they're mentally equipped to handle the rigors of the NFL, name another coach who can get you ready for it. I think that Jim Harbaugh at Michigan could probably do it pretty well.

But name another coach who you can say, I will prepare you for what life is like in this league. And it's, you know, as we all know, that goes way beyond schematics in doing your job. It is a complete lifestyle change. Everyone talks about it, how different it is when football ceases to be, you know, your quote unquote job and becomes your real job. And... I think that he'll enjoy doing that.

But name another coach who you can say, I will prepare you for what life is like in this league. And it's, you know, as we all know, that goes way beyond schematics in doing your job. It is a complete lifestyle change. Everyone talks about it, how different it is when football ceases to be, you know, your quote unquote job and becomes your real job. And... I think that he'll enjoy doing that.

Like years ago, years ago, it was in 2006. It was around the time the Halberd standpoint came out. Bill wouldn't promote it during the year, but in the off season, he did a couple events and he did one at Southern Connecticut. And I, um, he'd received like a distinguished speaker award and I went to it and And I was really curious on how it was going to go.

Like years ago, years ago, it was in 2006. It was around the time the Halberd standpoint came out. Bill wouldn't promote it during the year, but in the off season, he did a couple events and he did one at Southern Connecticut. And I, um, he'd received like a distinguished speaker award and I went to it and And I was really curious on how it was going to go.

And he was so at ease in that audience in front of those young minds. And he wasn't talking about football. He showed some clips. He kind of went to the film in kind of a funny way. But he wasn't like... talking about football and using these kind of flat metaphors for how it prepares you for life and this type of thing.

And he was so at ease in that audience in front of those young minds. And he wasn't talking about football. He showed some clips. He kind of went to the film in kind of a funny way. But he wasn't like... talking about football and using these kind of flat metaphors for how it prepares you for life and this type of thing.

He was actually addressing these kids in terms of their passion and what they want to do and how best to do it. And he was just on fire and he was inspiring. And I do think that that's probably a muscle that he hasn't had a chance to flex as much in the NFL. And I think that he'll really look forward to doing that because he'll know that the vast majority of even his players won't play in the pros.

He was actually addressing these kids in terms of their passion and what they want to do and how best to do it. And he was just on fire and he was inspiring. And I do think that that's probably a muscle that he hasn't had a chance to flex as much in the NFL. And I think that he'll really look forward to doing that because he'll know that the vast majority of even his players won't play in the pros.

But I think that he'll enjoy... preparing these people for life beyond football, which, to be honest, even though we know that he can do that, it is surprising for Belichick because he's someone whose self-worth almost seems tied to the results of games.

But I think that he'll enjoy... preparing these people for life beyond football, which, to be honest, even though we know that he can do that, it is surprising for Belichick because he's someone whose self-worth almost seems tied to the results of games.

So college is kind of a combination, and maybe it's unofficially always been this way, of raw NIL money, and how much am I getting, and cult of personality. I mean, you see it with Deion Sanders. It is just such a cult of personality. Even Saban, he had reached that level. And I think that it's kind of interesting to consider, but I mean, it's like Belichick...

So college is kind of a combination, and maybe it's unofficially always been this way, of raw NIL money, and how much am I getting, and cult of personality. I mean, you see it with Deion Sanders. It is just such a cult of personality. Even Saban, he had reached that level. And I think that it's kind of interesting to consider, but I mean, it's like Belichick...

has reached a higher cultural place than any football coach for the last two decades. I would hope so. And, you know, as a cult of personality type of guy, I mean, you knew when Kraft started marketing the hoodies with the sleeves cut off, you know, that something had changed in the atmosphere.

has reached a higher cultural place than any football coach for the last two decades. I would hope so. And, you know, as a cult of personality type of guy, I mean, you knew when Kraft started marketing the hoodies with the sleeves cut off, you know, that something had changed in the atmosphere.

And, you know, a lot of the players that he'll be recruiting won't know, they wouldn't have been born when he was winning Super Bowls with the Patriots. But I think that, like, the culture personality will be strong with him.

And, you know, a lot of the players that he'll be recruiting won't know, they wouldn't have been born when he was winning Super Bowls with the Patriots. But I think that, like, the culture personality will be strong with him.

And I think that like that affords you a lot of the things that if you're a good coach at a good program, you know, makes this job so difficult because I don't think that he's going to be married to his phone all day, texting every single position and making sure that they're not entering the portal after practice, metaphorically speaking.

And I think that like that affords you a lot of the things that if you're a good coach at a good program, you know, makes this job so difficult because I don't think that he's going to be married to his phone all day, texting every single position and making sure that they're not entering the portal after practice, metaphorically speaking.

Just imagine someone like Davo Sweeney. He's clearly an elite college coach that doesn't run the most sophisticated offense. And, you know, I think that like when Deshaun Watson came into the NFL, I think Bill O'Brien did a great job with him. And Deshaun for a while there was like on the verge of being one of the top five quarterbacks in the NFL.

Just imagine someone like Davo Sweeney. He's clearly an elite college coach that doesn't run the most sophisticated offense. And, you know, I think that like when Deshaun Watson came into the NFL, I think Bill O'Brien did a great job with him. And Deshaun for a while there was like on the verge of being one of the top five quarterbacks in the NFL.

I mean, they had to mesh a lot of what they did in Clemson with like the stuff, you know, pulling from like the Brady rookie playbook, right? Yeah. Of the Patriots offense. And, you know, he will take that stuff is a huge challenge. I mean, you know, the fact that you essentially have you know, great inflation in college with some of these quarterback numbers that are being put up.

I mean, they had to mesh a lot of what they did in Clemson with like the stuff, you know, pulling from like the Brady rookie playbook, right? Yeah. Of the Patriots offense. And, you know, he will take that stuff is a huge challenge. I mean, you know, the fact that you essentially have you know, great inflation in college with some of these quarterback numbers that are being put up.

I mean, he will take that stuff personally, but there's also that aspect to the, you know, the fact that like he is who he is. And I mean, Brady on Fox the other day was asked about Belichick in college and he just like could not imagine him there.

I mean, he will take that stuff personally, but there's also that aspect to the, you know, the fact that like he is who he is. And I mean, Brady on Fox the other day was asked about Belichick in college and he just like could not imagine him there.

And it's a funny clip of him doing his impression of Bill giving his pitch, you know, well, we don't really want you, but if you want to come here, we'll see what you can do. I mean, That part of it is really kind of interesting because he's going to be the complete opposite of what every other kid hears.

And it's a funny clip of him doing his impression of Bill giving his pitch, you know, well, we don't really want you, but if you want to come here, we'll see what you can do. I mean, That part of it is really kind of interesting because he's going to be the complete opposite of what every other kid hears.

And I was wondering, I wondered if that factored into it where he's like, even if I go to Jacksonville and I coach two years and get the record, am I going to hold it for, remember like when, remember when Drew Brees was breaking all those records and you knew that he was only going to have them until Brady, you know, another half season.

And I was wondering, I wondered if that factored into it where he's like, even if I go to Jacksonville and I coach two years and get the record, am I going to hold it for, remember like when, remember when Drew Brees was breaking all those records and you knew that he was only going to have them until Brady, you know, another half season.

I wonder if he, if that calculus went into things, you know, is that worth it for me?

I wonder if he, if that calculus went into things, you know, is that worth it for me?

And some edgy moments. You get to see that edginess with him sometimes.

And some edgy moments. You get to see that edginess with him sometimes.

Absolutely. I mean, legacy has always been important to him. And not just his legacy, but the legacy of the things that he built. I mean, I always was told that like... back when he thought he would always leave the Patriots on his terms, he would never leave it if they were down. He always wanted to hand over the team, a good team to his successor.

Absolutely. I mean, legacy has always been important to him. And not just his legacy, but the legacy of the things that he built. I mean, I always was told that like... back when he thought he would always leave the Patriots on his terms, he would never leave it if they were down. He always wanted to hand over the team, a good team to his successor.

So that no matter what you said about him, you could always say that he made decisions that he thought were in the best interest of the team, not himself, but the team and the franchise. And that was a lasting legacy beyond him on the sidelines. And watching him this year, And even he was throttled.

So that no matter what you said about him, you could always say that he made decisions that he thought were in the best interest of the team, not himself, but the team and the franchise. And that was a lasting legacy beyond him on the sidelines. And watching him this year, And even he was throttled.

You know, you could tell there was moments where maybe he would have gone there a little bit more, but he had to restrain himself a little bit because he knows that he still wants to get back in and he's not quite done with this. And it's not quite his personality just to rip guys.

You know, you could tell there was moments where maybe he would have gone there a little bit more, but he had to restrain himself a little bit because he knows that he still wants to get back in and he's not quite done with this. And it's not quite his personality just to rip guys.

But the gap between him and most of the league was just painfully obvious. And I get all the reasons that... I think there's a lot of people who thought that... Remember when Mike Shanahan sat out a year and teams started to fire their coaches early so they could get the inside track on him? Yeah.

But the gap between him and most of the league was just painfully obvious. And I get all the reasons that... I think there's a lot of people who thought that... Remember when Mike Shanahan sat out a year and teams started to fire their coaches early so they could get the inside track on him? Yeah.

There was a sense that might happen with Belichick, but because of the rules that are in place, that never really happened. And plus, I just don't think... I think owners just had, like we've talked about, all their reasons, as valid or not as they may be, of why they would rather bring in someone else. And it's kind of hard not to be happy for Belichick.

There was a sense that might happen with Belichick, but because of the rules that are in place, that never really happened. And plus, I just don't think... I think owners just had, like we've talked about, all their reasons, as valid or not as they may be, of why they would rather bring in someone else. And it's kind of hard not to be happy for Belichick.

And that he's landed in a place that he seems legitimately stoked about.

And that he's landed in a place that he seems legitimately stoked about.

Well, a couple things. I think that, first of all, Brable is suffering from a little bit of the same thing that Belichick has. This perception that you've got to give him the keys and let him do it his way. That guy's an excellent, excellent coach. I actually think that, I mean, it's obvious that Tennessee was better under him and they were tougher under him.

Well, a couple things. I think that, first of all, Brable is suffering from a little bit of the same thing that Belichick has. This perception that you've got to give him the keys and let him do it his way. That guy's an excellent, excellent coach. I actually think that, I mean, it's obvious that Tennessee was better under him and they were tougher under him.

I actually think that if you are trying to develop Will Levis, he was better for that because he knew how to protect quarterbacks. He knew how to run an offense that didn't put everything on them and took some of the pressure off. And I think he's suffering from a little bit of the stuff you see from Belichick. Would the Crafts move on from Gerard Mayo? I don't think so. I don't think so either.

I actually think that if you are trying to develop Will Levis, he was better for that because he knew how to protect quarterbacks. He knew how to run an offense that didn't put everything on them and took some of the pressure off. And I think he's suffering from a little bit of the stuff you see from Belichick. Would the Crafts move on from Gerard Mayo? I don't think so. I don't think so either.

I think Craft has said publicly that he decided in 18 or 16... Five years ago. Yeah, somewhere around that time that he was going to succeed Belichick. And unless there's something that's going on in the building that's so dysfunctional that hasn't come out yet, that is just beyond intolerable, I would really have a hard time seeing Robert Kraft move on from a coach like that after one year.

I think Craft has said publicly that he decided in 18 or 16... Five years ago. Yeah, somewhere around that time that he was going to succeed Belichick. And unless there's something that's going on in the building that's so dysfunctional that hasn't come out yet, that is just beyond intolerable, I would really have a hard time seeing Robert Kraft move on from a coach like that after one year.

And plus, with Vrabel, as prickly as he can be, they're used to that. They're like, whatever. Whatever Tennessee can't handle, they're like, it's fine with us. This is a beach. We've been through worse. And he's a good coach. He's a really good coach. It's a real...

And plus, with Vrabel, as prickly as he can be, they're used to that. They're like, whatever. Whatever Tennessee can't handle, they're like, it's fine with us. This is a beach. We've been through worse. And he's a good coach. He's a really good coach. It's a real...

Absolutely. It's a little bit like Belichick. I mean, you know, he's a total head coach. He can go coach running backs if he needs to. And Vrabel is a very similar... He learned from him and others, but Vrabel is a total head coach. I'll never forget Belichick's last playoff game. I guess we're saying last... Oh, the last playoff game with Brady. Yeah.

Absolutely. It's a little bit like Belichick. I mean, you know, he's a total head coach. He can go coach running backs if he needs to. And Vrabel is a very similar... He learned from him and others, but Vrabel is a total head coach. I'll never forget Belichick's last playoff game. I guess we're saying last... Oh, the last playoff game with Brady. Yeah.

When they lost to the Titans at home on that rainy night. And, you know... The Patriots need the ball back. They get a stop. And you keep thinking, you're thinking, this is when, you know, we've seen this. You know, all of a sudden they're going to turn it on. And Vrabel deploys that clock management trick that Belichick had used against the Jets earlier that year.

When they lost to the Titans at home on that rainy night. And, you know... The Patriots need the ball back. They get a stop. And you keep thinking, you're thinking, this is when, you know, we've seen this. You know, all of a sudden they're going to turn it on. And Vrabel deploys that clock management trick that Belichick had used against the Jets earlier that year.

And Belichick's just going nuts on the sideline and melting down. And you can tell he is hot because... But Brable had learned, like he had studied the guy and he knew in the exact situation when to use that. That is next level coaching.

And Belichick's just going nuts on the sideline and melting down. And you can tell he is hot because... But Brable had learned, like he had studied the guy and he knew in the exact situation when to use that. That is next level coaching.

And when you watch, like again, the end of like the Bears-Lions game, which is just like a debacle on every front, it's just obvious that there are some of these guys out there that are fundamentally coaching and teaching a different sport. And others are just kind of glorified play callers. And that would be my concern with Ben Johnson, even though he's an imaginative play caller.

And when you watch, like again, the end of like the Bears-Lions game, which is just like a debacle on every front, it's just obvious that there are some of these guys out there that are fundamentally coaching and teaching a different sport. And others are just kind of glorified play callers. And that would be my concern with Ben Johnson, even though he's an imaginative play caller.

Including Drake May. But yeah, I wanted to write a book that takes the most encompassing look at this position I possibly could. What's it like to do with every one of these levels? What is it building you? What does it strip away? What is it like doing in high school, college as a rookie? How did this thing become cool? The answer, as it turns out, goes back to 1885.

Including Drake May. But yeah, I wanted to write a book that takes the most encompassing look at this position I possibly could. What's it like to do with every one of these levels? What is it building you? What does it strip away? What is it like doing in high school, college as a rookie? How did this thing become cool? The answer, as it turns out, goes back to 1885.

and runs right through la in the coming decades wow and um you know then what is it like to live with this the rest of your life and what way is it is it incompatible with kind of future happiness i you know that's that's what i wanted to do and yeah i spent some time with your boy drake may um when he was at carolina and his family and the coaching staff there at the time and um

and runs right through la in the coming decades wow and um you know then what is it like to live with this the rest of your life and what way is it is it incompatible with kind of future happiness i you know that's that's what i wanted to do and yeah i spent some time with your boy drake may um when he was at carolina and his family and the coaching staff there at the time and um

I really enjoyed spending time with him. And I do think that part of the reason he was appealing to the Patriots, there's a Brady factor there, where it's like you had the youngest kid in a family of achievers who had to fight for attention. And when he decided to go to North Carolina... he knew right then that it's not about whether you make it in the NFL or not.

I really enjoyed spending time with him. And I do think that part of the reason he was appealing to the Patriots, there's a Brady factor there, where it's like you had the youngest kid in a family of achievers who had to fight for attention. And when he decided to go to North Carolina... he knew right then that it's not about whether you make it in the NFL or not.

It's actually just whether you have something to say at Thanksgiving with your family around. Did you do something that year that lets you be part of that conversation? Anyway, I had a great time reporting it and working on it and looking forward to September.

It's actually just whether you have something to say at Thanksgiving with your family around. Did you do something that year that lets you be part of that conversation? Anyway, I had a great time reporting it and working on it and looking forward to September.

He has. And I mean, I think like to take back what you said, I mean, I think there's an element of it where, you know, they think they can, and then sometimes they can't too. So like, you know, what makes this job in these weird responsibilities it has so unique and so hard, you know, so mythologized and so hard to predict baffles these guys. I mean, Steve Young loved Zach Wilson, mentored him.

He has. And I mean, I think like to take back what you said, I mean, I think there's an element of it where, you know, they think they can, and then sometimes they can't too. So like, you know, what makes this job in these weird responsibilities it has so unique and so hard, you know, so mythologized and so hard to predict baffles these guys. I mean, Steve Young loved Zach Wilson, mentored him.

Right. And you know, what happened? What happened?

Right. And you know, what happened? What happened?

That's the thing.

That's the thing.

And to tie it all back, Belichick used Darnold to take another crack at the Jets. Oh, yeah. He loved that. He's done that a few times. He loved mentioning that every team wanted to keep Darnold and liked him except for the Jets. Right.

And to tie it all back, Belichick used Darnold to take another crack at the Jets. Oh, yeah. He loved that. He's done that a few times. He loved mentioning that every team wanted to keep Darnold and liked him except for the Jets. Right.

Thanks, man. Good to see you.

Thanks, man. Good to see you.

There's no doubt. And I think that what makes that interesting is that that reflects a lot of the coach, GM, and owner divide in the NFL. I mean, I think they rank and file coaches. Ask Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahan, Sean Payton. Ask any of those guys if they think Bill Belichick should be coaching in the NFL, and you won't even be able to finish the sentence before they say yes.

Whereas at the GM level, though, and the ownership level, there's just so much concern. And I think that part of it is his record. Part of it is, you know, that for, you know, the last half of the dynasty, certainly, you know, Robert Kraft made it a secret that he could be impossible to work with at times, even as they were winning. But,

I think that there's just a sense that even if Belichick is willing to be deferential to existing infrastructures and existing GMs, whoever they might be, there's a sense that if you hire this guy, you got to kind of let him do it his way and give him the keys, even if he's not technically asking for it.

And I think what changed, 2024 has been an interesting year for Belichick, and we should talk about that. But what changed, I think, was that I think that he began to think, maybe I don't really want this.

And I don't want to take the risk and wait in January, hoping that I might get one interview and might get one job when I can go to a program that I've got a little bit of history with, have the space to win or lose on my terms and my career that way.

Totally. And I think that, yeah, it's first of all, to go back to like the early part of the dynasty, like, you know, you and I talked about it when my Patriots book came out. I mean, those were hugely formative years because Belichick finally had the, the, the people, the quarterback in place to do what he had had in his mind for so long in terms of like being able to create an actual team.

And, and, you know, that's where that ethos started. And I think that, like, Wright Thompson and I and Van Natta reported on it a year ago or so that, you know, Belichick really felt like the Crafts had eroded what he had built in the past couple of years.

Crafts, of course, were pissed off that he let Brady walk out and, you know, he told Crafts that Brady couldn't play anymore and he goes and wins the Super Bowl. But then... Yeah, 2024. He gets fired by the Crafts, even though they call it a mutual parting of ways. Craft later comes out and says that he was fired.

Exactly. And then you have seven openings. And only one team shows any interest in him. He meets with the owner twice. And then the next thing you know, he's voted off the island, as we reported about. You're talking about Atlanta. Atlanta. And he was willing to work with GM Terry Fontenot. He was willing to work with Rich McKay, even though there's a lot of history there. Yeah.

But, you know, at the end of the day, they not only went with Raheem Morris, but they made a decision against Belichick, like didn't finish in any of the decision makers' top three candidates.

Well, it was our reporting. I mean, it's a little bit different than they leaked it. But yeah, we learned about it.

Yes.

Absolutely. So he gets shut out. Then you have the dynasty comes out, which just really roundly dismisses his influence in that team's historic run. So start this season. He's got his media gigs. But every week, he and a lot of the old Patriots assistants who are also out of work would do these Zooms.

And they would go through every team, every game, every situation, these high-level conversations. And I think the subtext of it all is like, what teams and organizations sound good for us if the situation comes up? And there wasn't a lot of back channel communication with owners. I think that the Brian Flores lawsuit has impacted that greatly.

well, it's an ongoing discrimination lawsuit against the league and three teams. And I think that owners don't want to get wrapped up in that. They don't want to be part of that. They don't want to violate the Rooney rule. And so I'm not convinced that Belichick wouldn't have ended up with an NFL job. I just think we're never going to know.

And I think that the ones that he thought he might have a chance at just didn't seem appealing enough. And I think that on those Zoom calls, Midway through the season, all of a sudden, the college game just seemed much more appealing to him. And he wanted to discuss certain programs, how it would work if they tried to implement some of the Patriot way at that level.

And again, I was as shocked as anybody. I think you and I were texting about it when North Carolina came up. And, you know, it's not Notre Dame exactly, but he felt like this is a good place to end his career the way that he wants to end his career, which is, you know, working with people that he cares about, that he likes, and winning or losing on his terms.

And it's out west. I think consistently he really didn't want to go out west.

Yeah, and I mean, again, one of those situations is interesting. I mean, Dallas is interesting to me because nobody can take a collection of talent and turn them into a team quite like Belichick. But again... can the Jones share the spotlight with someone like Belichick?

I have no doubt that they could all get along, but I don't know if Jerry Jones values coaches enough to go after someone like Bill. Well, he had Jason Garrett for eight years or nine years, so we know the answer to that already. Exactly. And so I think that, again, he saw the Giants as a rebuild, but he also believes that Brian Dayball has done a good job. Yeah.

It's almost like you take yourself out of the running for that if they were even considering it. And, you know, again, this is all just, I think that like, and even Cincinnati, I mean, remember when he would go on his podcast or on the McAfee show, I mean, he was really critical of Burrow.

And usually when he does that publicly, you know that there's a lot more there in terms of his private scouting report of a certain player. Yeah.

I loved it. It was really fun. It was really fun. I mean, that's all we've wanted, right? Because what you have is the... you know, for all these decades, you knew, you know, you had his public performance, which was, you know, very buttoned up. And then the things you would learn about what they were like behind the scenes and the way that they would,

really, you know, put so much thought into like all these decisions. It was just mind blowing. And so I loved like just getting a glimpse of that this year from him.

Yeah, I interviewed, I was talking with Peyton Manning earlier this year for my quarterbacks book. And, you know, he was talking about how Belichick just loves coming on the Manning cast and loves watching punts.

And then you watched him when we had an Atlanta game, and I think he was on the Manning cast. And, you know, he's just ripping them for sloppy tackling and things like that. And, you know, that was a job. Obviously, they made a point of making sure everyone knew why they didn't hire him. And so, you know, I enjoyed that stuff quite a bit.

Never would have happened. So there was definitely no chance.

I know I'm trying to think if there's, I mean, you just look at the toxicity of how that ended. And I don't know if there's a sports parallel where they could have like mended that again. I mean, Phil Jackson, Jerry Krause. I was thinking about that and that wasn't going to, I mean, it got pretty bad. I mean, you saw the body language at the press conference when they let Belichick go.

You saw it at the Brady roast.

And, yeah, I mean, I'm with you. Like, on paper, in terms of, like, if you're looking at the situation that's kind of best suited for him, where you're taking a team that... you know, again, needs to kind of like come together and play smarter, that might be, you know, the Patriots might be his forte. But yeah, that was never going to happen this year.

I think it is important, but it's not the thing. It's not why he gets out of bed in the morning. It's not what really motivates him. And I think that probably given a year off, he was able to reflect a little bit on what are the essential things that I enjoy about this job.

And I think that one of the things with the New York Giants, let's say he had gone there, and he knows that it's going to take a year to get that team back. he would have been going through his third straight coaching year. So 22, 23, and then next year with, you know, the media on him and whether he's lost his fastball, a daily, you know, piece of speculation and content.

And I don't think he really wanted to deal with that. And I think that like, it's one of the college football media is a little different than the NFL. Um, And I think that like, even though it's intense in its own way, it's like, that's something that he won't really have to contend with. I think when he's in North Carolina.

Absolutely, and I think that that was something that a year ago, when the Eagles were at the highest levels, were talking about, hey look, you know, he's available. Do we, do we make a move here? You know, that was one of the things that was considered is that like, even though those group of minds for the longest time were just like so desired in NFL circles, right?

I mean, owners just could not wait to try to tap into his thinking until they realize, you know, that it's, it's so singular. His system is not a playbook like Bill Walsh's. It's literally his decision-making in real time. Um, They thought he doesn't necessarily have the best record of developing coaches and considering if he comes in, you have to kind of let him run it his way.

Are you doing this again in two years? Are you blowing up the building again? Or do you give someone a third shot at being a head coach or one of the people out of that group, a second shot at being a head coach? And so those things were definitely on minds. I think that with Belichick, just him having been in the NFL for half a century now and been in the public eye

really for most of the last 30 or so years, is that there's just enough material out there that if you want to lay out a convincing conversation as to why you don't want to hire him, it's there. But his record is also there. And I mean, just imagine him going through what he went through last January and February,

And then having to go on his podcast and on the McAfee show and everything and explain to us and him trying to do it politely, just how stupid some of the coaching is in the NFL. I mean, when they have to bring him on to explain what happened at the end of the Bears-Lions game. And I mean, this is stuff that he knows how to do in his sleep. I mean, he is the one who with the clock

melting down against the Seahawks, saw confusion, saw personnel change, calls, you know, go line three. I think that was the name of it. Butler goes in, all that stuff comes together in a way that I can't ever see being replicated again. So much preparation and thought and execution and stones, for lack of a better word. And yet, you know, you're watching...

these coaches screw up game situations all the time. And they bring him on to try to explain why. And these are the guys who have jobs right now.

Absolutely, and I think a year ago, I think it was a year ago, there was a, you know, they have owners meetings, and then they have the privilege meeting, which is just owners, and maybe they're family members, but it's not team executives. And I think that it was in a privilege session where the league presented some data

as to the total amount of money that owners are paying coaches that are no longer working for them. And it was a staggering amount. And then it prompted all this discussion about the value of coaches, are we paying these guys too much? All this stuff. But the bottom line is that most owners are not good at this.

And even if you're invested in a GM, I don't want to pick on him, but let's just say Terry Fontenot or whoever it might be. Why not... Why not have an owner who says, look, I'm going to keep you around.

I want you to absorb as much as you can from this guy while we have two to three years with him so that we can take the best pieces going forward after he sets the record and rides off into the sunset. That would be some really strategic thinking on an owner's part.

And owner's you bring up two interesting points. I mean, number one is that a lot of them are kind of risk-averse and conflict-averse, which I think, you know, within that context, it makes you realize just, you know, how ballsy it was for Robert Kraft to trade a first-round pick for Belichick back in 2000.

Absolutely. And then... The thing is, though, is that you're right. I mean, like, groupthink takes over. Like, even though these guys are, you know, in charge of these multi-billion dollar businesses, and even though they're all bosses in their own right of whatever other businesses they might own, When you see votes taken in the NFL, there's not a lot of close votes.

They're almost always 31 to 1 because Mike Brown never votes. Whatever it might be. Groupthink does just take over. And I think that, like we said, they can use whatever excuse they want for why they don't want to hire Belichick. But... It doesn't look good for all of them.

It doesn't look good that this guy left and went to college to a mid-level program while we're watching just like so much bad coaching every week.

My gut tells me he'll do pretty well there. Now, look, I don't know what that means. Does that mean they make the playoffs? I don't exactly know. But I think when you have a legend who still feels like he has something to prove and is really sharp, I think history usually lends itself pretty well to those guys. And I think that clearly this was a space that

in 2024 really just started to appeal to him. And from the people I've talked to closest to him, again, in September, when they started these meetings and they're going through all these games, I don't think that they were thinking what college program might come open that would be cool.

It was really as the season went on and he became more intrigued with the college game that he asked these guys to look into some of these programs a little bit more. Well, what would it look like if we took my methodologies and tried to adapt them to this? Um, you know, how would that go?

And, you know, is the ability to knowing that I'll be able to win or lose on my own terms worth the risk of not interviewing or, you know, yeah. Yeah. Before any of those jobs come open and, and, you know, it was really kind of a resounding yes.

It's a pretty good pitch. And I also think that it'll be interesting to see which NFL teams end up drafting out of that program most. When he had the first run with the Patriots, when they win three out of four Super Bowls, and then his system got raided around the NFL, he had some tough drafts there.

And one of the reasons was because all of a sudden, what felt like half the league was looking for the type of player that only he was looking for before. And so all of a sudden, there was a premium on those types of players. Now... Who knows exactly? I mean, it would be interesting to see if the Chargers, if the Ravens, if... Oh, teams that he has connections with?

Yes, teams that he would have connections with. The Giants, Denver. If those types of teams end up really looking hard at North Carolina players and wanting them because they'll have a better sense that they're mentally equipped to handle the rigors of the NFL, name another coach who can get you ready for it. I think that Jim Harbaugh at Michigan could probably do it pretty well.

But name another coach who you can say, I will prepare you for what life is like in this league. And it's, you know, as we all know, that goes way beyond schematics in doing your job. It is a complete lifestyle change. Everyone talks about it, how different it is when football ceases to be, you know, your quote unquote job and becomes your real job. And... I think that he'll enjoy doing that.

Like years ago, years ago, it was in 2006. It was around the time the Halberd standpoint came out. Bill wouldn't promote it during the year, but in the off season, he did a couple events and he did one at Southern Connecticut. And I, um, he'd received like a distinguished speaker award and I went to it and And I was really curious on how it was going to go.

And he was so at ease in that audience in front of those young minds. And he wasn't talking about football. He showed some clips. He kind of went to the film in kind of a funny way. But he wasn't like... talking about football and using these kind of flat metaphors for how it prepares you for life and this type of thing.

He was actually addressing these kids in terms of their passion and what they want to do and how best to do it. And he was just on fire and he was inspiring. And I do think that that's probably a muscle that he hasn't had a chance to flex as much in the NFL. And I think that he'll really look forward to doing that because he'll know that the vast majority of even his players won't play in the pros.

But I think that he'll enjoy... preparing these people for life beyond football, which, to be honest, even though we know that he can do that, it is surprising for Belichick because he's someone whose self-worth almost seems tied to the results of games.

So college is kind of a combination, and maybe it's unofficially always been this way, of raw NIL money, and how much am I getting, and cult of personality. I mean, you see it with Deion Sanders. It is just such a cult of personality. Even Saban, he had reached that level. And I think that it's kind of interesting to consider, but I mean, it's like Belichick...

has reached a higher cultural place than any football coach for the last two decades. I would hope so. And, you know, as a cult of personality type of guy, I mean, you knew when Kraft started marketing the hoodies with the sleeves cut off, you know, that something had changed in the atmosphere.

And, you know, a lot of the players that he'll be recruiting won't know, they wouldn't have been born when he was winning Super Bowls with the Patriots. But I think that, like, the culture personality will be strong with him.

And I think that like that affords you a lot of the things that if you're a good coach at a good program, you know, makes this job so difficult because I don't think that he's going to be married to his phone all day, texting every single position and making sure that they're not entering the portal after practice, metaphorically speaking.

Just imagine someone like Davo Sweeney. He's clearly an elite college coach that doesn't run the most sophisticated offense. And, you know, I think that like when Deshaun Watson came into the NFL, I think Bill O'Brien did a great job with him. And Deshaun for a while there was like on the verge of being one of the top five quarterbacks in the NFL.

I mean, they had to mesh a lot of what they did in Clemson with like the stuff, you know, pulling from like the Brady rookie playbook, right? Yeah. Of the Patriots offense. And, you know, he will take that stuff is a huge challenge. I mean, you know, the fact that you essentially have you know, great inflation in college with some of these quarterback numbers that are being put up.

I mean, he will take that stuff personally, but there's also that aspect to the, you know, the fact that like he is who he is. And I mean, Brady on Fox the other day was asked about Belichick in college and he just like could not imagine him there.

And it's a funny clip of him doing his impression of Bill giving his pitch, you know, well, we don't really want you, but if you want to come here, we'll see what you can do. I mean, That part of it is really kind of interesting because he's going to be the complete opposite of what every other kid hears.

And I was wondering, I wondered if that factored into it where he's like, even if I go to Jacksonville and I coach two years and get the record, am I going to hold it for, remember like when, remember when Drew Brees was breaking all those records and you knew that he was only going to have them until Brady, you know, another half season.

I wonder if he, if that calculus went into things, you know, is that worth it for me?

And some edgy moments. You get to see that edginess with him sometimes.

Absolutely. I mean, legacy has always been important to him. And not just his legacy, but the legacy of the things that he built. I mean, I always was told that like... back when he thought he would always leave the Patriots on his terms, he would never leave it if they were down. He always wanted to hand over the team, a good team to his successor.

So that no matter what you said about him, you could always say that he made decisions that he thought were in the best interest of the team, not himself, but the team and the franchise. And that was a lasting legacy beyond him on the sidelines. And watching him this year, And even he was throttled.

You know, you could tell there was moments where maybe he would have gone there a little bit more, but he had to restrain himself a little bit because he knows that he still wants to get back in and he's not quite done with this. And it's not quite his personality just to rip guys.

But the gap between him and most of the league was just painfully obvious. And I get all the reasons that... I think there's a lot of people who thought that... Remember when Mike Shanahan sat out a year and teams started to fire their coaches early so they could get the inside track on him? Yeah.

There was a sense that might happen with Belichick, but because of the rules that are in place, that never really happened. And plus, I just don't think... I think owners just had, like we've talked about, all their reasons, as valid or not as they may be, of why they would rather bring in someone else. And it's kind of hard not to be happy for Belichick.

And that he's landed in a place that he seems legitimately stoked about.

Well, a couple things. I think that, first of all, Brable is suffering from a little bit of the same thing that Belichick has. This perception that you've got to give him the keys and let him do it his way. That guy's an excellent, excellent coach. I actually think that, I mean, it's obvious that Tennessee was better under him and they were tougher under him.

I actually think that if you are trying to develop Will Levis, he was better for that because he knew how to protect quarterbacks. He knew how to run an offense that didn't put everything on them and took some of the pressure off. And I think he's suffering from a little bit of the stuff you see from Belichick. Would the Crafts move on from Gerard Mayo? I don't think so. I don't think so either.

I think Craft has said publicly that he decided in 18 or 16... Five years ago. Yeah, somewhere around that time that he was going to succeed Belichick. And unless there's something that's going on in the building that's so dysfunctional that hasn't come out yet, that is just beyond intolerable, I would really have a hard time seeing Robert Kraft move on from a coach like that after one year.

And plus, with Vrabel, as prickly as he can be, they're used to that. They're like, whatever. Whatever Tennessee can't handle, they're like, it's fine with us. This is a beach. We've been through worse. And he's a good coach. He's a really good coach. It's a real...

Absolutely. It's a little bit like Belichick. I mean, you know, he's a total head coach. He can go coach running backs if he needs to. And Vrabel is a very similar... He learned from him and others, but Vrabel is a total head coach. I'll never forget Belichick's last playoff game. I guess we're saying last... Oh, the last playoff game with Brady. Yeah.

When they lost to the Titans at home on that rainy night. And, you know... The Patriots need the ball back. They get a stop. And you keep thinking, you're thinking, this is when, you know, we've seen this. You know, all of a sudden they're going to turn it on. And Vrabel deploys that clock management trick that Belichick had used against the Jets earlier that year.

And Belichick's just going nuts on the sideline and melting down. And you can tell he is hot because... But Brable had learned, like he had studied the guy and he knew in the exact situation when to use that. That is next level coaching.

And when you watch, like again, the end of like the Bears-Lions game, which is just like a debacle on every front, it's just obvious that there are some of these guys out there that are fundamentally coaching and teaching a different sport. And others are just kind of glorified play callers. And that would be my concern with Ben Johnson, even though he's an imaginative play caller.

Including Drake May. But yeah, I wanted to write a book that takes the most encompassing look at this position I possibly could. What's it like to do with every one of these levels? What is it building you? What does it strip away? What is it like doing in high school, college as a rookie? How did this thing become cool? The answer, as it turns out, goes back to 1885.

and runs right through la in the coming decades wow and um you know then what is it like to live with this the rest of your life and what way is it is it incompatible with kind of future happiness i you know that's that's what i wanted to do and yeah i spent some time with your boy drake may um when he was at carolina and his family and the coaching staff there at the time and um

I really enjoyed spending time with him. And I do think that part of the reason he was appealing to the Patriots, there's a Brady factor there, where it's like you had the youngest kid in a family of achievers who had to fight for attention. And when he decided to go to North Carolina... he knew right then that it's not about whether you make it in the NFL or not.

It's actually just whether you have something to say at Thanksgiving with your family around. Did you do something that year that lets you be part of that conversation? Anyway, I had a great time reporting it and working on it and looking forward to September.

He has. And I mean, I think like to take back what you said, I mean, I think there's an element of it where, you know, they think they can, and then sometimes they can't too. So like, you know, what makes this job in these weird responsibilities it has so unique and so hard, you know, so mythologized and so hard to predict baffles these guys. I mean, Steve Young loved Zach Wilson, mentored him.

Right. And you know, what happened? What happened?

That's the thing.

And to tie it all back, Belichick used Darnold to take another crack at the Jets. Oh, yeah. He loved that. He's done that a few times. He loved mentioning that every team wanted to keep Darnold and liked him except for the Jets. Right.

Thanks, man. Good to see you.

Seth, ist das traurig? Denn ich habe Leute gesehen, die sagen, dass es ziemlich traurig ist, für das Größte aller Zeiten aus der Optionen zu sein und mit den ganzen Pro-Ringen enttäuscht zu sein. Und er nimmt nur seinen Ball und Matt Patricia und geht nach Chapel Hill. Ja, ich meine, ich denke...

Seth, ist das traurig? Denn ich habe Leute gesehen, die sagen, dass es ziemlich traurig ist, für das Größte aller Zeiten aus der Optionen zu sein und mit den ganzen Pro-Ringen enttäuscht zu sein. Und er nimmt nur seinen Ball und Matt Patricia und geht nach Chapel Hill. Ja, ich meine, ich denke...

He didn't say thank you. You should. I mean, that's a compliment. Your teeth are very white. Okay. That's another observation.

He didn't say thank you. You should. I mean, that's a compliment. Your teeth are very white. Okay. That's another observation.

Bill, if that's the spin, then maybe this isn't going to work out. If you were sickened by the politics in the NFL, I thought you knew what you were getting yourself into and kind of reveling in it. This is no, no, no, no, no. This is dirtier than you can even imagine, if that's the case.

Bill, if that's the spin, then maybe this isn't going to work out. If you were sickened by the politics in the NFL, I thought you knew what you were getting yourself into and kind of reveling in it. This is no, no, no, no, no. This is dirtier than you can even imagine, if that's the case.

Sie sind ziemlich lang.

Sie sind ziemlich lang.

Ich mache mehr Entscheidungen als ein Kriegerpilot.

Ich mache mehr Entscheidungen als ein Kriegerpilot.

Ich denke, Leute wollen die Debatte über den Erfolg haben. Du sprichst davon, dass es ein Heng-Jury ist. Definitiv wissen wir, dass er der größte NFL-Coach aller Zeiten ist. Auch wenn das ein Verrückter sein wird, wird er der erste Name sein, der in diesen Debatten kommt. Denn niemand wird das als 73-Jähriger gegen ihn halten.

Ich denke, Leute wollen die Debatte über den Erfolg haben. Du sprichst davon, dass es ein Heng-Jury ist. Definitiv wissen wir, dass er der größte NFL-Coach aller Zeiten ist. Auch wenn das ein Verrückter sein wird, wird er der erste Name sein, der in diesen Debatten kommt. Denn niemand wird das als 73-Jähriger gegen ihn halten.

Ich denke, er geht in den Sport mit viel Kaffee, er geht in den Sport mit einem Vorteil über die meisten der Trainer. Was mich schreckt, ist, was Seth gesagt hat, weil es direkt gegen alles geht, was ich von den Trainer-Renken gehört habe. Fast jeder in der Schule versucht, sich da rauszuholen. Es ist ein Geheimnis jetzt.

Ich denke, er geht in den Sport mit viel Kaffee, er geht in den Sport mit einem Vorteil über die meisten der Trainer. Was mich schreckt, ist, was Seth gesagt hat, weil es direkt gegen alles geht, was ich von den Trainer-Renken gehört habe. Fast jeder in der Schule versucht, sich da rauszuholen. Es ist ein Geheimnis jetzt.

Wenn du einen NFL-Coach versuchst, in dein College-Programm einzugehen, passiert das nicht. Er ist die einzige Person, die sagt, ich bin fertig mit dem, ich gehe da hin. Und er versucht es zu verkaufen als, nein, nein, nein, das ist die Wave des Zukunfts, das ist viel besser, du hast mehr Kontrolle. Das ist nicht der Raum, den alle gerade lesen. Es ist einfach in direkter Opposition.

Wenn du einen NFL-Coach versuchst, in dein College-Programm einzugehen, passiert das nicht. Er ist die einzige Person, die sagt, ich bin fertig mit dem, ich gehe da hin. Und er versucht es zu verkaufen als, nein, nein, nein, das ist die Wave des Zukunfts, das ist viel besser, du hast mehr Kontrolle. Das ist nicht der Raum, den alle gerade lesen. Es ist einfach in direkter Opposition.

We know the most recent national champion came from there, was trying to get back for several years, needed the success to finally go over there. Ryan Day has been trying to get to the NFL since he got that job. I would say, and I know this, the vast majority... I happen to know this. For real, for real, FR, this is a tough job right now. Es ist ein wirklich schwieriges Job.

We know the most recent national champion came from there, was trying to get back for several years, needed the success to finally go over there. Ryan Day has been trying to get to the NFL since he got that job. I would say, and I know this, the vast majority... I happen to know this. For real, for real, FR, this is a tough job right now. Es ist ein wirklich schwieriges Job.

Es ist vollständig anwesend. Und er hat recht, mit einem großen Support-System in die Tür zu gehen. Jeder bekommt seinen Job von ihnen delegiert. Und er kann einfach überall sein. Das ist das smarte Ding, weil es scheint, als würde er in die Tür gehen mit einem größeren Personalteam als die meisten.

Es ist vollständig anwesend. Und er hat recht, mit einem großen Support-System in die Tür zu gehen. Jeder bekommt seinen Job von ihnen delegiert. Und er kann einfach überall sein. Das ist das smarte Ding, weil es scheint, als würde er in die Tür gehen mit einem größeren Personalteam als die meisten.

Das ist das, was ich sage. Er muss den Jumpman Sweatshirt bekommen.

Das ist das, was ich sage. Er muss den Jumpman Sweatshirt bekommen.

I think it's going to happen. We'll find out pretty quickly. He joins this program as the portal opens up. And as someone that helps with the program, that is in the talent acquisition game, that mines that portal, I am more nervous today than I was when Mack Brown was there.

I think it's going to happen. We'll find out pretty quickly. He joins this program as the portal opens up. And as someone that helps with the program, that is in the talent acquisition game, that mines that portal, I am more nervous today than I was when Mack Brown was there.

It's a happen to know. I said, I happen to know.

It's a happen to know. I said, I happen to know.

Brother, you started a media company.

Brother, you started a media company.

Man, the Rhett Lashley thing was a bar. Ich meine, wenn man sich die Läden der Trainer anschaut, dann fragt man sich, wer ein besserer Trainer ist. Ich meine, es werden Lachen gegenüber ihm sein. Dabo ist der Einzige, der sagt, was ist los, Pal? Und er ist sogar ein Lachen.

Man, the Rhett Lashley thing was a bar. Ich meine, wenn man sich die Läden der Trainer anschaut, dann fragt man sich, wer ein besserer Trainer ist. Ich meine, es werden Lachen gegenüber ihm sein. Dabo ist der Einzige, der sagt, was ist los, Pal? Und er ist sogar ein Lachen.

Ein solcher Hornets-Anwohner. Wenn du zurückkommst, was redest du? In Bezug auf den Erfolg auf dem Platz. Erfolg.

Ein solcher Hornets-Anwohner. Wenn du zurückkommst, was redest du? In Bezug auf den Erfolg auf dem Platz. Erfolg.

Glücklicherweise hat niemand das gesagt.

Glücklicherweise hat niemand das gesagt.

Er ist die einzige Person, die eine Kassette hat, die sagt, hey, Mann, schau mal, wir haben Sie gewonnen.

Er ist die einzige Person, die eine Kassette hat, die sagt, hey, Mann, schau mal, wir haben Sie gewonnen.

I happen to know that I will be shitting bricks that day.

I happen to know that I will be shitting bricks that day.

Now is a good time to remember where Tequila's story truly began. In 1795, Cuervo invented Tequila. Cuervo. What are you doing here?

Now is a good time to remember where Tequila's story truly began. In 1795, Cuervo invented Tequila. Cuervo. What are you doing here?

I don't know what I'm doing where I think Bill Belichick's odds of getting Jordan more engaged on the football program are higher than Larry Fedoras. But I just kind of believe that because he can talk to him from a goat-to-goat level that no one has, at least in the football program. But Roy Williams has been able to talk to Michael Jordan that way.

I don't know what I'm doing where I think Bill Belichick's odds of getting Jordan more engaged on the football program are higher than Larry Fedoras. But I just kind of believe that because he can talk to him from a goat-to-goat level that no one has, at least in the football program. But Roy Williams has been able to talk to Michael Jordan that way.

There is a level of frustration that he does plenty, but not enough. Can he do more? I gotta believe in my heart of hearts that Michael Jordan's going to be a little bit more engaged, and that helps.

There is a level of frustration that he does plenty, but not enough. Can he do more? I gotta believe in my heart of hearts that Michael Jordan's going to be a little bit more engaged, and that helps.

Well, now you're talking about something different, which is former sports owners and, look, even Saudi public fund have kind of poked around. Can we have equity and buy your brand, your college basketball program, your college football program? David knows a little bit more about this, certainly, than I do, but it seems as though this is all heading in that direction.

Well, now you're talking about something different, which is former sports owners and, look, even Saudi public fund have kind of poked around. Can we have equity and buy your brand, your college basketball program, your college football program? David knows a little bit more about this, certainly, than I do, but it seems as though this is all heading in that direction.

Michael Jordan is looking at it like, I get equity in this program?

Michael Jordan is looking at it like, I get equity in this program?

Well, Nike is conflicted out. They can only buy Oregon, apparently.

Well, Nike is conflicted out. They can only buy Oregon, apparently.

Wenn jemand die Vorteile von nicht günstig sein kann und dann immer noch viel Geld verdienen kann, ist es David Sampson. Hell yeah! Lass uns über den Privat-Equity-Aspekt sprechen. Ich weiß, dass Konferenzen als Ganzes haben darüber gesprochen, was Privat-Equität ist. Aber das ist noch nicht erlaubt.

Wenn jemand die Vorteile von nicht günstig sein kann und dann immer noch viel Geld verdienen kann, ist es David Sampson. Hell yeah! Lass uns über den Privat-Equity-Aspekt sprechen. Ich weiß, dass Konferenzen als Ganzes haben darüber gesprochen, was Privat-Equität ist. Aber das ist noch nicht erlaubt.

All diese Gespräche sind noch nicht erlaubt, und alle Billionärs kippen sich um diese individuellen Programme, die fragen, ob sie ein Stück bekommen können. Wie geht das weiter? Warum sind diese Gespräche gerade noch erlaubt?

All diese Gespräche sind noch nicht erlaubt, und alle Billionärs kippen sich um diese individuellen Programme, die fragen, ob sie ein Stück bekommen können. Wie geht das weiter? Warum sind diese Gespräche gerade noch erlaubt?

The tequila that invented tequila. Proximo. Cuervo.com. Please drink responsibly. Cuervo.

The tequila that invented tequila. Proximo. Cuervo.com. Please drink responsibly. Cuervo.

Yeah, I can smell it. From the bedroom.

Yeah, I can smell it. From the bedroom.

No, but like a pleasant wet cave. Look, it lingers. I don't want to smell. He's wearing a Tom Brady shirt.

No, but like a pleasant wet cave. Look, it lingers. I don't want to smell. He's wearing a Tom Brady shirt.

Verstehe ich etwas? Ich glaubte Taylor letzte Woche vollständig. Und dann kam ich zu einigen NFL-Fachwerken und sagte, ich bin ziemlich in North Carolina eingeladen. Wenn du das Bill Belichick-Spiel machen willst, ich glaube das ist ein sehr ernstes Spiel. And then he went to North Carolina.

Verstehe ich etwas? Ich glaubte Taylor letzte Woche vollständig. Und dann kam ich zu einigen NFL-Fachwerken und sagte, ich bin ziemlich in North Carolina eingeladen. Wenn du das Bill Belichick-Spiel machen willst, ich glaube das ist ein sehr ernstes Spiel. And then he went to North Carolina.

But I do happen to know.

But I do happen to know.

And they've poked around individual programs. They've poked around every single program. This is not a unique thing. Everyone's got a private equity firm on line one, ready for that moment.

And they've poked around individual programs. They've poked around every single program. This is not a unique thing. Everyone's got a private equity firm on line one, ready for that moment.

I don't think that you want to hide under my desk and I can just prop you up every time you got a scoop. I love that.

I don't think that you want to hide under my desk and I can just prop you up every time you got a scoop. I love that.