Student

Hi, Charlie.

Yeah, I just have a question kind of based on affirmative action. I'm a computer engineer here at UW-Madison. I'm about to graduate. And there's a lot that I've found through research and just general – I guess my studies, not only does affirmative action like help minorities, people of color, but also women in general.

And there's a lot of facets of engineering, the medical system and other factors that because of affirmative action have helped. I'll just go into something, for example, let's say like in the medical field, endometriosis, something like that has not been studied in women due to so little women being in the medical field.

Also, for example, like cars, the seatbelt is made especially for the male body. They're only tested with male mannequins. So a lot of women are in risk of dying in car crashes at a higher rate. There's a lot of things that benefit from a diverse group of people, both in engineering and medical fields and education and other facets of the systems.

And so at some point... Is that like... Why would that happen?

Do you think it's just because people of color are more stupid?

So how do we fix those socioeconomic statuses?

But yeah, that's something that's due to like your... Hold on.

I don't think that's a good... One second, one second. I just don't think that's a good example because like women will never be as strong as men, at least genetically.

That's not necessarily true.

I mean, there's a reason I'm here.

It's not a general truth, though. I feel like women have the capability of having political conversations.

There's no wiring for your brain to like Donald Trump. That's not a real thing.

Certain things, but not necessarily. It doesn't like channel you to be a specific thing.

Well, like there's like specific wirings to, you know, like produce certain types of hormones. And that's like differences that are genetically.

I think that's because of a societal norm in general. Well, over a lot of time.

So why is it that— There's women that play football. So you can't just say that.

No. Yeah.

Yeah, I don't.

Well, I feel like that's kind of diminishing to say, oh, because you're a woman, you will not be able to sit through a four-hour football field.

No, I'm sure you get your hair done, right?

Okay, but you still do it.

Yeah.

Because we're held to higher standards to look pretty.

For example, your hair. How short is your hair? It's super short. Mine, it's going to take longer to dry. Do you wear makeup? Yeah.

Because you want to look pretty and it takes... Yeah, that's not important to me because I'm a man. Oh, right. But who made you feel that way?

But you feel comfortable not wearing makeup because of a certain reason.

I can not wear makeup.

I mean, like right now I'm not wearing like anything really.

I mean, this question was about affirmative action. No, no, no.

Right.

Affirmed Action says race does matter. What about women also in fields like that? What I explained earlier.

Not Secret Service. I'm talking about medicine, engineering, that type of thing.

I think it should be similar to the amount of the general population.

Yeah.

I have an OBGYN that's a man. That's not a problem.

I think it should be similar to like whatever.

It's not about people in the OBGYN specifically. It's about people in general. Men were like, for example, women were not able to vote until like less than like 100 years ago, basically. Right.

One second. So because of that, a lot of the laws, a lot of everything that's set in place was made by men, was excluding women, was creating like reforms and like certain legislations that would specifically, you know. Support men rather than women because women don't have that ability.

Well, for example, like what I brought up, endometriosis or like the C-bill accident. Like all this stuff is due because we tend to favor men in specific.

Not much because that's why.

Well, who has like who has the money in a society?

Women weren't able like women weren't able to have bank accounts until like less than 100 years ago. So they can't really like, you know, build a generational wealth.

Yeah, I would.

Yeah.

Because we have these like legislations that don't allow us to go into certain.

I thought it was men.

Okay.

I don't think that's because we're allowed to have money.

I would argue otherwise. I don't know where you got that data.

Well, it could be the fact that because women weren't able to go to a psychologist or before.

Yeah, she's saying that. No, it's actually opposite. It's saying that women actually, it says women around the world report higher levels of life satisfaction than men, but at the same time report more daily stress.

But there's like more layers to it than that. It can't just be that. You have to look at why are women more likely to go and talk to a psychologist. There's differences in that.

I mean, just as a woman of color, I don't think not having rights back then would have been good.

They weren't able to get married to a white man. I'm in an interracial relationship. I'm dating a white man. If I was back then, I would never be with the love of my life. I feel like that's one point. Because you're not allowed to marry black. Black people are not allowed to marry white people back then.

Where? Where? In America.

It wasn't 1919. It was happening still until 1964. Also, banks were specifically not allowing black people to own homes back then. They could just turn them away.

Well, they could. I'm curious, though. At some point, 1967? Yeah. That's when interracial marriage was finally brought here.

Okay, but that's crazy still. I would not be able to be with... You asked me the question, as a woman, would you be happier back then? No, I wouldn't because I couldn't be with the love of my life.

We are seeing the most... So things like that is what is important to show.

Well, just by that fact that I would be able to marry someone that I love is, I think, a great point.

No, that's when it was finally, like, made, like, law. So before that, like... In every state. Like, in every state. I'm pretty sure that's when it was the last one.

They just looked it up. They just showed me it.

That's just what it shows.

You couldn't. I'm pretty sure in Wisconsin you couldn't.

Well, now we're avoiding it.

Oh, okay.

I don't think it's based on, like, a little bit of both, yes.

Well, my initial point was that because of not having, like, people, you know, of certain races or certain genders, like, be here and working in engineering and stuff like that, we have not been able to, like, research into certain things that would benefit those people.

No. I mean, I don't know like how.

She's here because she passed the pilot test. She passed. She went through that schooling. She went through everything. I wouldn't be worried about that.

They won't let you just operate on someone without certifications.

I wouldn't say that, but...

I just had the question of how would you want to fix that?

No, I'm just saying like how do you bring people with diverse opinions?

So like women – I don't care about putting women in STEM. I care about being a strong – No, I'm talking about like being able to look into those type of things. Like endometriosis, like all this stuff. How do we make that safer for other people? Without bringing people that care about it.

And all of a sudden we've decided that's a bad thing.

Yeah, there's a lot of there's a lot of parts in engineering that because we don't have a diverse look of opinions and we are putting them like we're putting certain people into more danger, like women in cars. That's like one example.

That's OK.

No.

I can't.

I didn't lie. I said I would wear it. You said if you wear it.

I don't like you as much as Charlie, though. First of all, what's your name? Oh, sorry. I don't want to be filmed and stuff. I'm anonymous, number one. Anonymous guy.

Thank you. Thank you. Nice to meet you, too.

How are you? Good. I just want to drill in a bit about Doge and some of the what?

And about some of these like hiring hirings and some of the unconstitutional moves they've been making. To be more useful here, when your claim is that you're trying to make the government more efficient and then you arbitrarily fire a bunch of people, for example, for the nuclear people, a bunch of them were fired and then they had to get them back.

Okay, I think I see where you're coming from. So you think that it's harder for white people because of black people, they could have lower tech scores? That's not what I think. That's what you're saying. Okay. Well, I guess what I would say, too, I think perhaps you're familiar with the term equity, right, where different people... have different circumstances.

You're wasting time and effort by randomly and arbitrarily picking how to handle these cases. If your claim is that you want to be efficient, you should just immediately start firing people. You have to go over this with a lot more methodical effort and that's not what's happening. And on top of that, The Doge administration will not save enough money.

Even if you were to fire every single government employee, they would not even be able to get to a fraction of how much revenue we need to get for taxes. That's not enough, and it's not helpful. And when you go over those placards, you can flash them and say that, like... I mean, it's $115 million for equity assessment programs. That's a lot of money. No, it is not.

With regards, compared to how much we need to run the country. Hold on. This is a very important point. We're talking about scale here. About $2.6 trillion of revenue comes from our income taxes. If you're going to make these cuts, you need to meaningfully account for them.

It depends. You need to make the argument that it's actually good. You can't just flash the dollars.

Yes, you have to justify that this program is helpful or not. You have to justify the existence of the program.

Again, you can't just say empty buildings.

You can say how much they cost, but if they do something useful for the government, then their prices make sense.

But you just get rid of the program automatically before you've done the work.

Whether you reject it or not, I think it's a prescient concept in this argument. Because what you have to understand is that when you, for example, you're born in a black neighborhood, you're born in Oblok or something. Oblok. You don't know what Oblok is?

Again, those can be important. Those could be helpful.

I just want to say, like, what? Go ahead. You don't need to interrupt people. Thank you. The point is, when you want to deal with this problem, you can either increase taxes or cut spending massively. Like, the point is that, like, these programs aren't efficient and helpful for getting to that goal.

My point is twofold. You have to both justify that these programs are bad. No, you can just – this is a program. It costs this much money. We should cut it. That's not an argument.

It's not about what I know. It's about the people in the government making these decisions.

Yes.

But you're not solving that problem by doing this.

If you're born there, if you're born in a very poor area like that, with very low economic opportunity, very poor schools, very low ratings, where the average test score is much lower, When you're in that environment, you have the whole system up against you, right?

My point is that you have to meaningfully increase taxes or cut something. Yes, you do. That's what he's doing. They are meaningfully cutting spending.

It depends on how successful. Wait, I am not finished speaking. Oh, my God. It depends on how successful the country is afterwards. It depends. If you make a lot of cuts and the country becomes worse, then you didn't do your job.

So when you say in that kind of circumstance, when you're facing the whole, I guess, leviathan of systemic racism, would you say that's fair to, for example, lower the standard because knowing that their circumstances were like that, perhaps based on what they had, what was presented to them, they had the correct amount of merit to get into a school?

Oh, you want me to give you a – I mean, I can.

Yeah, I'm fine. Wait, you mean like tell her or like give it to her?

Okay.

I mean, yeah, I can just work back up.

I can put myself up on my bootstrap.

Equity isn't taking. Equity is applying the equal standard.

No one's taking my grades, though. That's not what affirmative action is.

Well, I guess I would ask then, if we were to do what you're doing, I guess that's what's happening under Trump, right? Well, no, it's actually been happening the last 40 years. Okay, actually, yeah, whatever.

Okay, so when you say that, if you do that, then, well, black people aren't going to get into school, and then they won't be able to uplift themselves, they won't be able to have prosperous families, they won't be able to, you know, equalize the economic status, because you need to give them a little jump start. You know, you have a car, right?

No, no, no, no, no, it's good.

I can answer that easily. It's because, oh, sorry. It's because – sorry, what am I going for? I don't know. You're a funny guy. So what happened is even after the Civil Rights Act – you know what I believe? I believe the term is massive resistance.

It was a movement after the Broad versus Board of Education in Virginia where essentially the legislature, which was still white supremacist, which is still extremely racist – They decided that, no, we're going to do everything that's feasibly possible within our means to stop black people from going to white schools. You even see this in, I believe it was the Little Rock Nine, right?

Even after it was legalized at the state level, white supremacist mobs still mobilized to prevent it. So even if de facto it's gone, it still exists.

What is racism? That's a very complicated question.

I mean, there's a simple answer, and then there's the highly theoretical answer. Give me the simple. The simple answer will essentially be because we have, like, different skin colors, that he's treated a different way than me. He has, like, a different upbringing than me.

Oh, it's discrimination. Based on the color of the skin.

I just disagree with the premise that you can do anti-white racism. Wait, can you be racist against white people? No, bro, I'm a cracker, bro. No, you can't be racist. Bro, there's so many crackers here, bro. There's your clip, bro. There's your clip. You're going to do political violence to me, bro? Why are you saying that to me? You're making me scared.

Okay, so do you think, like, when Trump is now a nice president, now that racism is gone now because Trump is back and we're no longer pandering, right, do you think that the conditions of black people have, like, do you think O-Block is going to become, like, a much nicer place?

Do you think that these very downturned sort of black neighborhoods that have been sort of left behind, do you think they're going to become revitalized now? Is that what you think is going to happen? Yeah, they'll do better for sure. You think they're going to do better? Now that we've stopped helping them, they're going to do better. Well, see, that's an interesting thing.

Because that seems like contradictory to me, just on basic logic.

They don't seem unrelated to me. Affirmative action is... I'm sorry, I don't mean to interrupt you.

I don't think it's pandering, though. I think it's understanding.

Okay, well, so wait here.

Yeah, final point. Sure, okay. This thing's a little close. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to offend your wonderful setup here. Yeah, so I guess I'll just restate my point that I don't believe you mentioned like all black dormitories, right? I mean, I don't really comment on that. I mean, I don't know if that's real. To me, that sounds fake, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here.

It's very real. OK, but I just think it's very irrelevant, kind of like aesthetic focused thing. It doesn't really affect the material conditions of like.

Oh, well, because, okay.

The difference is, like, for example, if you want to go back to segregation, the all-white dormitory was nice as **** and the all-black one was ****. So if that was brought back, okay, if we were to do an all-white dormitory.

But, like, okay, I'll go back to – because I did let it slip by, but you mentioned that, like, in the early years of the Donald Trump presidency, right, that the conditions for the employment and stuff were going up for black people. What I would say is the economy works slow. It works at, like, a time dilation for policies initially enacted.

So what I would probably assume, based on what you said to me, is that it was the Obama-era policies that actually led to that and not the Trump policies because – Stuff like tax cuts for the rich doesn't really help.

Well, I mean, I don't think that's going to happen. Personally, I think the economy is going to shit with what all Elon Musk is doing. But if that was to happen, I mean, I guess my whole world view.

The government is efficient. He's just firing everybody. It looks like he did to Twitter. Y'all see what happened to Twitter? That's racist. That's the Nazi haven. It went from, like, a pretty accepting place to, like, where, like, the average blue checkmark is saying, like, Elon Musk himself has replied to, like, well, he did the Nazi salute. Like, we're not going to forget about that, are we?

Oh, can I start now? Nice to meet you, Charlie. I'm a big fan. I think you're a very beautiful man. I admire you physically. No homo! No homo! No homo! I did have a question. Something I don't find very interesting about you, something I find kind of repulsive, is that I believe you said that the Civil Rights Act was bad and that we shouldn't have that. Oh, thank you. I appreciate that.

No, he didn't. What do you mean? Y'all didn't see that clip, right? Y'all didn't see when he did that? Next question.

Oh, okay.

Do I get a portion of the TikTok revenue you're going to get from this?

Oh, yeah.

We got 15 minutes. Let's stick with disagreements, guys.

Hi, I'm starting my senior thesis this semester on political polarization and the effects social media and echo chambers has on political polarization.

Hi, so I'm starting my senior thesis this year on political polarization and the effects social media and echo chambers has on it. So my question is, how would you describe the relationship between social media and political polarization, especially now that Elon Musk owns X and has advocated for freedom of speech?

All right. I'm here to ask the age-old question, DEI.

Yeah, give me your perspective on DEI, because based on what I heard earlier, I feel like you don't think I belong here. Oh, really?

Because of how I am a black man, and because of DEI, I'm not qualified enough to be here.

Yes, I am.

Then you belong. But why do I have to prove that to you?

Okay, but can you... Can you explain to me your position on DEI?

I said, I feel like you made it to where I got here through DEI.

When you mentioned how DEI is only just putting people of color and marginalized groups in spaces, even if they're not so and so qualified.

But that's not all that it does. You're categorizing it as something it isn't.

You have to also take into the fact that black people have only been able to completely and completely legally be able to make profit for themselves for around 60 years. No, no, no. Since segregation ended in 1965 and the Equal Rights Act in 1965, so there's not...

It impacts me all the time. How?

You're doing great.

But there's also living examples of the exact opposite. If you look in the impoverished neighborhoods in certain parts of Chicago or St. Louis, there's black communities being thrown aside because they're not getting education.

Because of the way the culture has been perpetuated through the years.

I can't answer that one. Keep talking.

I'm not saying it's the white culture.

The culture that has been perpetuated through the 200 years of slavery, the 100 years of segregation... and Jim Crow laws.

Because of the raised incarceration rates, because of the perpetuated culture.

That's obvious.

Okay, but when you're forced for... It's not just the, oh, this is old, this is in the past, this doesn't affect you anymore.

Okay, but... but you're sitting here and acting like it plays no role now.

Because of the culture and opportunities that were provided to them.

Yes, be brutally honest with you.

Okay, but you have to take into account the culture that has been perpetuated.

It's deeper than that.

That's what sells because it's a culture thing. It's not just within the black community. I agree. No, but hold on. Everyone listens to it.

Okay.

That's a slippery slope fallacy.

I can't walk into the grocery store and get the same looks that you do. I walked into Brookshire Brothers a couple weeks ago.

Because of the way you treat our culture and the way you perpetuate it.

When we're forced into underfunded communities where schools are based off of property value, we can't

Secondly— Do you just expect a single-parent home to pick up and move into some rich neighborhood?

It's not just one person's decisions. It's so much deeper than that.

I don't know why y'all are clapping. It's a difference in culture. The way that each culture is treated is so vastly different in America.

My natural hair seemed as unprofessional when I go into an office or workplace. When I walk around in certain places, people just assume, like I've said earlier, the dirty looks. When people think you are automatically the worst of the worst solely because— We don't think that.

Because I've seen it.

I've seen what people have done to me and people who look like me around the world and in America. How?

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I never said that. I'm not the only black person who exists out there. There's so many people who this culture is affecting to this day.

Africa.

Stop acting like a victim. This is not a victim mentality.

Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

People say that to me all the time, and they just walk around like it doesn't mean anything around here. Say what? Say the word. The N-word. I'm not going to say it on this public platform, but people say it to me all the time.

Why would I be lying about this?

You're saying that... I'm indicting the moral character of one person or a few people.

Do you think I'm lying when I say that people say the N-word around here?

But that doesn't mean it's word for word like that.

Because you brought the N-word up first. No, I didn't. No, no, no. You specifically said, name me an instance of the N-word.

But that's automatically implying that one word.

Okay, then what is it then?

Explain it to me.

It's not just that. It's a culture. It's so much deeper than the present day we are in. I don't know why you're pretending like it just doesn't matter.

But you're not listening to understand. You're listening to reply.

It doesn't boil down to just that.

They're not just going to immediately see.

It's not just... Exactly.

You're just denying my experience I just shared to you in front of all these people.

Education.

You need to fundamentally change the system of education because there's not enough funding. Teachers are not paid enough anywhere, let's be honest. We need to seriously fix our education, especially when public school education comes from property taxes. When you're in a low-income neighborhood, you're not going to get high-income teachers.

That goes hand in hand. Education goes into family planning.

Do not... What do you mean act a certain way?

So, okay, we have two black men right here. By that statistic, one of us is not going to get married to one woman. So, what do you think?

But the reason why they are here is because of the education they received. Both my parents got their bachelor's at colleges.

I'm saying just education in general.

They also came here by choice, too. My ancestors did not come here by choice.

In pro-life, so you agree with prisons, right? Are you for or against the... I'm in favor of the death penalty. In favor. And so isn't that a contradiction of being pro-life?

Oh, so it's different that way. Yeah, what crime has the baby committed? Okay, and what about preserving life?

Do you not believe in rehabilitation?

And you said you agree with the statement, an eye for an eye.

How I see it is an eye for an eye will make the whole world blind.

Alright, so when I first came here, you were talking to a man in blue, and I don't recall what you said verbatim, but you were talking about pro-life, and then you said there was a, like, to make a label of, like, killing people, and I, do you see how that could be a contradiction?

So these guys want to talk about J.K. Rowling? So what's going on with that? What do you want to know?

Uh, she's had a pretty controversial past. I just want to know, like, what are your thoughts on it? Like, do you still like her work despite her bigoted opinions?

So let's get specific, though. Let's define bigoted opinions.

She has had a history of being extremely transphobic, I've heard. And you've heard, so can you give me an example? So, one of these tweets that she came up with in 2019, she said, Dress however you please, call yourself whatever you like, sleep with any consenting adult who will have you, live your best life in peace and security, but force women out of their jobs for stating that sex is real.

So you find that bigoted? I don't really have an opinion on it, but I'm just going with what a lot of other people have said.

So let's pause it. Let's not go with what other people are saying.

Force women out of their jobs for stating that sex is real.

So when I hear that, I'm interpreting that as meaning...

So, to me, no. So is there anything you disagree with in that tweet? Uh, in that tweet, I can't really see anything that I myself disagree with.

So now that we're looking at it like, oh, there's not much difference between me or her, do you think it's fair that she's being attacked by a large group of people and people are calling her?

Now, retroactively looking at that statement, do you think that that was the best way to phrase it?

Do you still like her work despite her bigoted opinions?

So let's get specific though. Let's define bigoted opinions. What opinions are bigoted?

She has had a history of being extremely transphobic, I've heard. And you've heard, so what, can you give me an example? In 2019, she said, live your best life in peace and security, but force women out of their jobs for stating that sex is real. So you find that bigoted? What do you find about bigoted? It was...

Do you find that transphobic yourself?

I don't really have an opinion on it, but I'm just going with what a lot of other people have said.

So let's pause it. Let's not go with what other people are saying.

Don't tell me what my first concern is. I was disturbed to see how people were saying, why aren't they coming forward? Why aren't they saying what happened? Why haven't they... They've spoken out against other players. But no one said, wait, hold on a moment. What if they're innocent? What if they didn't do anything wrong?

They do, but it was prosecuted as a witch hunt from the beginning. People presumed their guilt. And in America, we don't do that.