Sue Bird

Yeah.

How do I do that?

Okay. I was like, it is? Is it? I hope so. Are you sponsoring us? Everyone's eyes just got huge. I would love to be sponsored by The Row. Me too.

Fully not in charge here. Okay.

It's like probably.

Yeah.

They used to just like give us Ambien. And I'm like, I mean, I'm going to take it, but like all of a sudden.

We were like, swimming.

And I'm like, ooh, I like it. I like the drama. I like the drama. Psychologically, it's interesting.

I know. I'm like.

I like to see it all play out.

Not really, but...

Yeah. It's aggressive.

Yeah.

It's progressive in the like anarchist zero government kind of. So it's like where hippies meet no government and you're like, what's happening here?

And it has no value. And it's not worth it.

And also Elon Musk is doing what he's doing with his billions of dollars. Yes, I know.

God.

He still has one sister and she's like, what the fuck is this?

Ghost runners galore.

Und du hättest auch genossen, wenn du so hoch bist, was ist das richtige Wort? Wenn du so hoch bist, wenn du so hoch bist, wenn du so hoch bist, wenn du so hoch bist.

Absolutely. So when I'm being a total obnoxious child, being like, I completely understand. That's a given. You're right.

But you're also doing okay.

Ich denke, es ist großartig, dass Dokumentarfilm als Kunst etwas ist, das populär ist. Ich denke, dass die Idee, dass jüngere Menschen als Non-Fiction-Storyteller inspiriert werden können, großartig ist.

Ich denke, in Bezug darauf, wie du die Popularität von Dokumentarfilm charakterisierst, bist du vielleicht mit dem, was es ist, das es populär macht, mit dem, was ich als echte Dokumentarfilm machen würde. So, I would... I'd like you to unconflate it.

Can you deconflate it? I could.

Aber ja, ich glaube, es ist großartig. Ich glaube nicht, dass ich jemals einen Zeitpunkt in meinem Leben hätte, in dem ich mir gedacht hätte, dass ich als Dokumentarfilmmacher ein Leben machen würde. Nein, ich glaube nur, dass du dir als junges Kind gedacht hättest, dass du ein professioneller Podcaster sein würdest.

Aber ich meine, die größere Antwort auf deine Frage, oder für mich, was ich mehr darüber denke, ist, dass die Art von Dokumentaren, die mehr populär und prävalent sind, immer mehr Dinge sind, die von Streamern gezeigt werden, die manchmal über berühmte Leute, Künstler, Sänger, wer auch immer sind.

Und die sind ein bisschen auf dem Branden der Inhalte verbunden, weil sie in Verbindung mit den Themen selbst gemacht werden, die oft Produzenten sind. Und diese Art von Idee, dass Dokumentarfilmmaking as Journalism is being sort of pushed by the wayside a little bit.

And so it's not like there aren't tons of films that qualify in terms of what documentary filmmaking is I desire to make them and see them. It's just that those aren't the ones that are typically compensated in the same way. So if you're saying, oh, look at this boom in documentaries, I'm like, yes, but right now I feel like, to me, culturally,

Es scheint, dass es weniger auf Kunst gefördert wird, auch politisch, in Bezug auf das, worauf wir uns konzentrieren, was wir finanzieren, was wir anerkennen, all diese verschiedenen Dinge. Und ich denke, das ist auch in der Kunst der Filmmachung eingestiegen, in Bezug auf das, was gemacht wird, was wir wertschätzen, weil es immer noch ein Kommerzialexerzise ist.

Wir sind eine kapitalistische Gesellschaft. Und wenn es um Narrativfilmmaking und Dokumentarfilmmaking geht, sehe ich die gleichen Probleme. Und das ist für mich mehr ein Wunsch. Also denke ich, dass es eine Möglichkeit gibt, Geld als Non-Fiction-Filmmaker zu machen. Vielleicht mehr als je vorher, weil ich denke, dass der Boom ein paar Jahre her war.

Und hoffentlich wird der Zyklus wieder zu einem Punkt kommen, wo... So I should say that all of us have been adjacent to, participated in,

Thrice?

Das klingt sehr furchtbar. Ich will nicht sagen, dass jedes Dokumentarier schwer zu machen ist. Every sort of documentary has value. And I really am trying to be vague, specifically.

Yeah, what's the threshold? I do think that's a line that I don't think is...

In your mind, when you're thinking of, I forget the exact word you use, but... No, I mean, first of all, I do think there happens to be a glut of documentaries that are now being done in participation with the subject. If a subject has any creative control, I have a problem.

Ich kann nur sagen, dass viele dieser Dinge von anderen gemacht werden. Das ist meine Antwort auf diese Frage. Also einige Leute sind klar... Schau, ich sollte auch sagen, basierend auf dem, was wir sagen, dass wir alle ein Leben machen müssen. And also everyone doesn't have a background as a journalist.

And so if you come to something as more of an artistic filmmaker or as something, whatever you're trying to do, or you just love the person. Oh my God, I love you so much, Sue. I want to make a film about you. Oh, you don't like this? Sure, we can just take that out. Because it's like the world needs to enjoy... Sue Bird für 90 Minuten. Es ist so, okay, ich kann das nicht machen.

Das ist nicht, was ich schauen möchte. Wir werden einen Clip, als wir das sagen, und ein Dokumentar über dich veröffentlichen. Aber ich denke, es gibt viele Leute, die Assignements, Projekte und Filme nehmen, auch für den Check, die völlig valid sind. I'm starting to regret doing this.

Ich wollte das so sagen. Es ist wie das Zuschauen mit der Königin. Die Kamera kommt und sie ist so... Nur bei den Liberty Games, wenn sie nicht den Storm spielen.

Wait, hold on a second. When you're sitting courtside at a Storm game in Seattle, are you like up yelling at the refs?

It's like, it's really hard to... You're indifferent to the regular season.

Was glaubst du an die Qualität des Basketballs in der 5. Saison?

That's right.

Oh, in the swimsuit issue.

But you were in the swimsuit issue too.

Physical, Slow Whistle.

Kann ich eine kleine Degression über Referee sagen? Ich glaube, du warst der Kapitän der Storm.

Ich bin der Kapitän. Was ist der beste Weg? Und ich weiß, jeder Referee ist eine Person, ein Mensch. Du hast Verhältnisse, ich bin sicher, mit allen. Aber was war dein Modus, um Frustration, wenn nicht Verzweiflung, für einen Anruf zu vermitteln oder wie ein Spiel gespielt wurde, in Bezug darauf, nicht nur zu wissen, dass du einen Punkt hinkommst, sondern du versuchst, effektiv zu sein.

It's funny that you don't necessarily remember when you were in the SI swimsuit issue.

But wasn't that post-retirement?

War es jemals eine Dynamik, die während eines Spiels geschehen ist, Basically, it wasn't left on such good terms to a point where you had to have a conversation before the next time that person refereed a game to clear the air.

You discussed it and even almost... Where I did something, where I had to go to the referee... You guys got into it a little bit. You were pissed off and or they made a call and you were stewing to a point where you had to go the next time you saw him. Like, look, before a game, just be like, hey, can we talk this out? No.

Ich kann nicht zurückgehen. Und hast du dann eine größere Begegnung für die Person, die das gemacht hat?

Please.

Leave me out of this, man.

Yeah, that's saying a lot.

And we're like, ****.

Who has made you feel the tightest?

So that's why I'm going to like it. For you?

Oh, okay. Easy. Give me yours, because I'm going to think about it.

He didn't like... No, but it was like all things, which is like I was making a documentary about him and magic. He had no interest in this. It was like he was basically the last person to get the interview. It was like, oh, we have to wait to the end of the season. He's like this mythical figure of like... I think there was a point where like...

Ich kam auf ihn an und er sagte, er könne zu French Lick gehen und mit jemandem sprechen. Er sagte, er könne mit meinem Bruder sprechen. Ich war in seiner Präsenz in einem Elevator, vor drei Monaten, und ich hatte Angst, nichts zu sagen. Er kommt rein, und du warst bei ihm. Ich habe vergessen, dass wir über euren Onkel reden. Und er ist gigantisch.

By the way, this was happening, this must have been 2009, I was interviewing him. And he doesn't talk about himself. He's really never really talked. And so the whole thing is like, you have one guy over there who won't shut the f*** up. And then another guy, it's like, that's part of the story.

And he just sits down and the whole, it was like, it actually was informative in some ways of how to do interviews because I had a finite amount of time with him. And he sits down, he just is like,

And it's like, okay. And I remember just like even before him being like, I got to remember every single thing I can't like do. And it was, he's so intimidating because he's not going to sit there and smile and make you feel comfortable. And it was so, that was the easily. And he was just like a lot of things. He's like, I don't know. I don't care. I don't want to answer that. I was like, cool.

But in the end.

Es hat funktioniert. Ich weiß nicht, das war ein sehr... Und er hat mehr gesprochen, als ich dachte. Es hat funktioniert.

Also warum hat er... Warum hat er geöffnet, während du sehr, sehr glücklich warst? Warum hat er... Ich kann nicht sprechen, warum er geöffnet hat, aber ich kann dir sagen, dass, wie bei allem, das würde für dich gehen, wenn du einen Podcast machst, wenn du einen Podcast machst. Es ist so, ich war vorbereitet.

Ich wusste, weißt du, was ich meine? Ich war nicht da, um... I was there to do a job, and I also think he is a responsible individual, so he agreed to do something. He was not going to do any more than what he agreed to, though. That was very clear. He's like, I said I would do this, so I'm going to do this.

Still, in front of whom has your butthole been most clenched?

It was fine. Can we bring this back to WNBA for a second? Sure. One of the storylines, as you like to say, of the season was of Kaitlyn Clark and Angel Reese and sort of the special treatment that Kaitlyn perceived, rough treatment, that she got from players. The targeting. The targeting. Anyway, this is all lived to say that when you're a player, what's the most offensive question you got?

Were you silently judging or did you actually say something?

It is true that like the idea that unlike Pablo and I, you have been the subject.

Thousands of times. And so that's a whole different lens through which you, and so that must inform how you're talking to people because you know how you like to be talked to.

Aber das ist das Medium.

Nein, was ich sage, aber das ist die Idee, wenn du einen Podcast machst, warum hat jemand einen Podcast? Du hast einen Podcast, um mit Leuten zu sprechen. Aber warum musst du die kontroversen Dinge herausnehmen?

So how did you react to, I assume that's the first time someone teared up on your podcast?

How did you react when you're seeing someone feel that emotional in a genuine experience? I loved it.

Hat jemand, hat jemand sich getötet, als ich mit dir das Show gemacht habe?

Siehst du, du hast das gerade gemacht, richtig? Du antwortest das sarkastisch und ungewöhnlich, wenn es tatsächlich so ist.

What was your level of anxiety when you're thinking, so when you did the ESPN Daily, right? I assume you're Pablo Torre, you're a journalist, you're doing this every day. And so you are not as Pablo prominent. In that dynamic, is that correct? My name wasn't in the show.

And so, like, what is your... The idea that you have a show that your name is in and you're willing to talk about yourself and make fun of yourself and, like... Was ist die Balance zwischen deinem Komfort in Bezug auf deine eigene Psychologie und dein eigenes Profil, wenn du gleichzeitig auch Journalist bist und mit anderen Menschen sprichst?

Du bist also sowohl Persönlichkeit als auch Star deines eigenen Shows, aber du versuchst deutlich andere Menschen zu erzählen.

It is. Well, anyway, go ahead. Sorry, I answered the question and now it can be cut out.

Okay, aber er hat mir... Ich meine, er schickt mir manchmal Podcasts, von denen er stolz ist und mich hören möchte. Also, der letzte, den er mir gesendet hat, war seine Konversation mit Connie Chung.

Ja. Den habe ich genossen.

now that you're retired for over a year, over a year, right? Two years. Over two years, okay. I might be conflating this from getting to know you over the past year, but in some ways, I mean, I've always known you, you're Sue Bird, you're Hall of Fame basketball player. You guys are friends. I should establish that. We are friends.

We're all friends. We're all friends. But I would venture to say that you have... Ja. So how do you think you're doing? I don't know.

Wir schalten das jetzt in die Publikation. Okay, super.

Du hast dein Jahrabendjahr im September gefeiert? Ja. Okay, wie geht es dir? Wie denkst du, dass du das gemacht hast? Was ist deine Maßnahme? In Bezug auf, wo du angefangen hast, wie du das erzeugt hast. Die Leute kamen nicht zu diesem Episode.

I talk. Talk. You don't say journalist? Let me retract that. Journalist. Okay, so you say journalist over podcaster.

So I digress. So I digress. So anyway, I interrupted. Go back to what you're saying. So you're in the elevator, you're talking to people.

Considering... Und dann höre ich Stimmen und Stimmen.

Do you ever feel any less sure-footed when you're doing podcasts that are not based in the world of sports?

Also, basierend auf dem, was dieses Podcast heißt, Pablo Torre findet heraus, basierend auf deiner grandiosen Vision für das, was du mit bestimmten Episoden tun möchtest, was passiert gerade? Qualify as a complete failure. You're just sitting here talking to your friends. What are you doing? This isn't a real podcast.

I like seaweed. But why would you, to what events and places that you're invited to, would you need a rider?

By the way, speaking of which, what's your current one-word title? Professionally.

I don't know.

Do you aspire to get to a point where that is not what you say anymore?

Or think? Why? I'm not saying you should. I'm not, no judgment.

I mean, look, you're an incredibly curious person. The fact that you've like sort of taken to retirement like with gusto and you try different things. You're like sort of between, again, you are an entrepreneur and you are a podcaster and you are, ein, ich weiß nicht, kultureller Ambassador für deinen Sport. Und du bist ein Teamleiter. Und du bist all diese *** Dinge.

Ich sehe, du hast viele Jobs. Also, was ich sage, ist, es gibt einen Niveau, an dem du dir sagen kannst, oh, es wäre toll, dass in fünf Jahren, ohne zu denken, natürlich bist du immer ein Hall of Fame Athlet, aber du bist so, oh, ich bin das. Und du kannst es glauben, es zu denken. Ich würde einfach denken, das könnte ein tolles Ding sein, um zu können, ich meine, es wird nie mit mir passieren.

Was ist deine Antwort auf eine Wortwahl? Esra. Dokumentarfilmmacher. Das sind zwei Wörter, aber er macht nicht viele Dokumentare.

Everybody watches women's sports.

I've seen you guys wear that, actually.

I think the main question out of this that I have is like, how prevalent is the issue of trans athletes?

And they're using this guise of protecting women and girls in sports. And really just, it's like fear mongering. It's just like...

you know, all of the instances that we hear about, it's like one or two kids or one kid, or, you know, there's less than 10 athletes, as Charlie Baker was saying, out of 510,000, you know, they're taking over women's sports and we have to protect women from women's sports. I mean, I've always just thought that that was very laughable to hear. It's amazing.

Sue Bird here. I am thrilled to announce I'm launching a brand new show, Bird's Eye View, the definitive WNBA podcast. Every week we'll dig into the WNBA stories that actually matter with guest interviews, candid takes, and in-depth analysis from around the league. It's a show I've wanted to make for a while and I'm so excited it's finally happening.

Whether you're new to the WNBA or a longtime fan, pull up. This show is for you. Bird's Eye View is coming May 16th. Follow the show on YouTube or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

They actually cannot stay in the village. They're just entirely too famous. The times we do go in there with them, it's wild. So we always have to get something outside of the village. We, unlike you guys, we stay in the city the whole time. We play the whole time. We stay in the city, whatever city it is the whole time. And our traveling party's huge. We can bring guests. Cool.

So they get us like a hotel or in this case, they couldn't find a hotel like logistically that made sense. So we stayed on a cruise ship. It was like below deck vibes.

Right. So like for them, and I'm sure you hear, and by the way, I'm like you, Glenn, like I had to learn all like their lives, like how it went. Their national team is like the priority. It's where the money is. It's like where their contracts are. For us, it's the WNBA and overseas. And then national team is second. And for them, it's like national team's first and WSL's second.

Like it's a flipped thing. Yeah. Got it.

Yes.

You're just going to skip the DM part.

Well, it actually sounds like way more scandalous.

Yeah, no. I'm like, hi. It's like, that's how you met Carla, her stylist.

The guy who's doing our apartment right now.

whatever that it didn't really kind of like lead anywhere but we sort of were like talking if I had to like round this out it was platonic there's like yeah there's like all these like connecting points we met here and then we oh we oh I saw we saw each other at the USA house which is this place that at the Olympics there's always like a USA house where every athlete can go and they have like

food and different kind of entertainment things, whatever they do there. We saw, I saw you there and then she lost. So then she was coming to my games. At that point we had connected on the DM and it was kind of like, Oh, you know, good to see you, blah, blah, blah, that kind of thing. And then they came to, um, our after party. So we had one, my fiance was there at the time. Yeah.

Sarah was there. So it was like, so this is, this is really like totally platonic. Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It was, it was Minnesota links is really the team. And you would say Maya Moore, Simone Augustus, Rebecca Brunson on that team, Lindsay Whalen, those four, like I can picture the image. There's a picture of them standing kind of at like a press conference with, they had made shirts, um, I forget the man's name who died in Minnesota who was murdered. Castile? Philando?

Yes. And that was the instigator for them because this was like this happened in our state. And when they did that, the security guards who are generally like off-duty police officers, they walked out. And then the rest of our league was like, wait a minute. Like we need to support this, be a part of this, make it bigger.

And that's actually the first time we really started to learn the power of like the collective. Like, yes, it was big when Minnesota did it. Cause then I think New York Liberty followed. I think maybe Phoenix Mercury followed. Then the whole league followed. And it was like, oh, when we're all doing this, then it's like a big boom versus just one team here, one team there.

So that was actually in terms of our journey as a league, that was the starting point of realizing the collective power.

Yeah, the Atlanta Dream. The whole league did it, our entire league. And that was like the beauty of the Wubble. Obviously, we're in a bubble because shit's crazy, COVID, George Floyd, like there's so much happening. But the beauty of the bubble was we were all together. And you know how it is. I mean, how hard is it to get on a Zoom with two other people? You know, finding time. It's impossible.

So for 144 women... to be in one place at the same time, you could just like strategize. Cause we were like, I know you're not doing shit. Get on this thing. Like come meet me.

So what we were side chatting about was, so there's, okay. So this is one of those experiences where I feel like a lot of people have this experience. Okay. Had Megan and I never ended up together, I never would have even remembered some of these little moments. They just would have been these like little bloops in your mind that come and go.

And it just never would have been like a big, huge factor. But because we did, we can look back on it and be like, oh, actually. So one of them is at that Olympics. Um, oh yeah. So she was at the after party. We're all having fun. And, um, she was standing over and I was like bringing her a drink and like making sure she was all set, that kind of a thing.

Just being a good host, you know, just kind of chilling.

So we're like, we're here. Yeah. So, yeah. So I kept like checking in on them, I guess, to be like, hey, you know. And at one point, you know, one of my close friends is Diana Tarazi. We obviously know each other very well. So I like had just left the table for probably like the fifth time or something, like walked away. And she comes out to me, she goes and get the fuck away from that table.

And I was like, what? She was like, I know what's happening. Get away from that table.

Yeah. And I was like, shut up, you know, like whatever, whatever. So again, had, you know, we never end up together, that wouldn't even be, I mean, I guess I would remember it because it's funny, but it just was like, whatever. But now looking back, I clearly was like, caring for her in this way. Yes. Like, I was, like, wanting to be near, but not in a disrespectful way.

That's, I guess, what I'm getting at.

But Diana saw it. Like, Dee saw it and was like, get the fuck away from my table.

Oh, so she think you think, but I think she was like, oh, I hope she ends up with Megan. Cause Megan seems cool. And I want to be your friend. No, Well, a little bit of both, but I think also she's like, wanted to, this is about you.

No, a little bit.

Oh God. I mean, presently Zoom calls, like one is on one and the other one is making noise. This is a huge, big issue in this household. It's a big issue.

She goes.

This is classic.

Oh, cool. There's nothing really in it. Yeah, you guys will definitely have to come visit. I'll be invited.

I feel like you need to tell it, but no, I mean, I just love every time we've, we've told this, we've shared this story just like a couple of times. Now it's going out to the masses.

Um, so she always, she always loves to at the start say it was very echoey and it's like, yes, that's true. Cause we didn't have furniture, but also it was loud enough. And I was on a zoom call that was actually casual. It wasn't like a podcast or a recording. It was I was talking to like.

Yeah. Well, yeah.

Yes. Well, I wasn't going to put a name on it because now if they listen, they're going to know. Well, it's going to confirm what they probably thought. So we're on the call. And out of nowhere, I hear I'll be off camera. I hear. Well, I can't because the mic's far. I hear. And I was like, oh, this bitch just farted.

I texted her. That was not intended. I was like, I texted her. I was like, they just heard you fart. Oh my God. We all just heard you fart.

No, Megan's not. I don't like to do that. I actually will say to her sometimes, I'm like, you remind me of when... Okay, so in sports... referees are a big pain in the ass, right? So sometimes you'll like look at them and be like, what the hell was that? And the referees that go, you're right, my bad. You can't argue. They just like nip you and they like neuter you almost.

And you're just like, and you want to have this because a lot of referees will be like, I didn't see it that way. And then you have, that's your chance to be like, well, you didn't just see that girl hit the other, you know, you didn't see this, you didn't see that. And then when they argue back with you, it's like this back and forth. But when a referee says, you're right, It just ends it.

And sometimes I'll be like, you're acting like that referee right now because, but this is a compliment actually. What Megan is really good at is like, she hears you. She's like understanding and processing your, for lack of a better complaint. And she goes, okay, yeah, I see that. You're right. But then when you're kind of upset about something, you're just kind of like... Right?

But at first, I didn't realize that.

Yes. And I was like, argue with me, please.

I'm like a psycho. like shutting the lights off. Like when we leave the house, I just think, isn't that like kind of common?

Like the theme of that. Yeah.

But she does. I mean, I'm sure it's like you do. Yeah. It's just there's these certain areas that are more like my wheelhouse. And I want her to participate in what I'm good at to like help. But then to her point, you have to realize that's not their thing. They're not going to think of these things.

So here we are. I love a nine. I love a nine AM, a nine AM double date. Yeah.

And I got it.

Yeah.

Or each other. I actually can't think of anything. The only thing literally just happened yesterday. There's like sometimes where... because we're always like gaming things out together, right? Whether it's like saving the world or what's going on, you know, in each of our teams or what's going on with our families. Like there's always like, we're gaming, we're talking, we're gaming things out.

And I think one boundary we're starting to realize we need to set is we can't, okay. So as somebody, as one of us is explaining something that's frustrating, that's happening, the other one in their attempt to be supportive can actually whip the other one up.

So some, it's like, and because we, no, it's not always, it's not just you, but it's like, so let's say, you know, cause I get fired up on your, Yes. But vice versa. And it's like, so one of us is like, can you believe this and that is happening? And I'm already, you know, I'm already whipped up and she'll like come in and whip me up even more.

And it just happened yesterday where I was like, okay, this is actually not helpful now. Like I'm too whipped up. And I think I can do it for you. I do it to you as well. And so it's like, that's like one thing I think we're starting to realize. I like to be whipped up.

That's right.

Sometimes you just need the person to yes, like be there and like listen and be supportive and or show you another side if that you're not seeing whatever the case is. But yeah. Okay. Maybe it is a me thing for me then. I've never heard anyone talk about that.

Yeah.

Telling me everything's okay. That's frustrating too.

Yeah. Yeah.

Right. Like not. Yeah. By the way, this is all very like. situation dependent, topic dependent. Sometimes you do want to be, you want somebody to be like right there whipped up with you. But I think for me, it's a scenario where it's like my, one of my work environments. And I was finding that it like, wasn't helping me to like go from, I was like zero to 50 and she sent me to a hundred.

but maybe not exceed, but not bring you down either. To your point, it is frustrating for someone to try to like calm you when you're not ready to be calmed. And that's actually what I do. Sometimes I go to, she'll be talking about something and I immediately jump into solutions. And then I realize what happened. I'm like, yep, not yet. I get it. That was too soon. Too soon on the solution.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Too soon on the solution.

I'm very solution-oriented.

Yeah. She's not.

She's not. I think it's more me because she's literally not. Do you feel like you're jealous? I don't feel like you're. I'm more jealous. I don't know that I'm like a super jealous person. I'm more jealous. I'm more jealous contextually than you or conceptually than you.

I think what we do together really well is understand that we need other people. So like we have a great friend group that we'll make sure we get dinners in with or like plan a weekend and go like hang out at their house. We've done vacations. I think the dinners part is a big part of our life. Like finding a cool new restaurant or one that has been around forever that we've never been to.

kind of checking those boxes. Those to me are like our outlets and things to do. I try to get her to do, I'm like, I love board games and I've tried to get her into like backgammon or something like that. No. Even when I was teaching you dominoes the other day, you were just like not... I was like, wait, did you like it? Yeah, I did. I was like, did you?

It's in the form of like a beep test.

That's where they're fitness.

Do you remember early, like very early in our relationship? Um, I had already, no, maybe that's not when that happened, but it was early in the relationship within maybe a year. And we were like trying to plan a vacation and And you said it first, but I was thinking it. And it was kind of like, well, we're going to invite other people, right? Oh.

And I think it's like, but like that's, we're together, like actually in the early part of our relationship, we were together a lot. But then it was like, yeah, we like other people coming into our space or us going into theirs and like doing all the things we just said.

Yeah. That's where they're. I don't have that experience. Thank God we don't do that fitness testing stuff.

That's like what sports does. Yeah. It's really the sad part.

Yeah. Like not necessarily the ones I grew up with. There's a couple, but just kind of through the years who you became friends with. From, from New York where I'm from. And those are like the homies forever. And they've now adopted Megan. I think they like you better. No. Yeah. Which is totally fine. But like they are now, Megan is like now in this group.

Like they have their own individual friendships and relationships. And that's, we've been lucky in that way that it's like kind of worked out like that.

I don't know. I don't either. I have no idea. That to me is the saddest part. One of the sadder parts about being an athlete is you grow up with someone or a team or a certain amount of teammates. You have all these experiences, all these shared experiences, the highs, the lows, like these are like seriously deep relationships.

Now you may not know like their names of their siblings, but you're going to know a lot of other things about them. It's like this weird, unique thing. But at the same time, the ones you do become super close with, Life goes on. You all live where you live.

And then there, like I spoke about Diana, she lives in Phoenix in California and outside of the WNBA season, if I see her once a year, I feel lucky. And I know it's the same for you and a lot of your friends. Like I'm sure you got, like you guys spent all this time together. When's the last time you saw each other?

Like, it's just, and that to me is like the saddest part because those relationships would continue to thrive and they just kind of get stunted because you're so far away from each other.

I mean, I think for me, I've said I was going to play another year. It's more than likely my last. So there's the whole retirement, which is really code word for like identity and like, who are you without this? So that's like always just kind of swirling.

in the back you know because then I had like I was saying earlier how some days I show up to the workout I feel bad some days I feel good on the good days I'm like maybe I just do this literally another couple years and I know that's just me holding on to the identity not the game itself or any of those things so I think that's probably the hardest thing I'm dealing with right now that's so honest and beautiful

I mean, literally. That's actually the wild part. I think that's what's hard to wrap your head around. Like being told, I think kind of what you're saying is You're not valued as maybe an athlete, right? In the moment, like WNBA, we get, I mean, the hate is like crazy.

So you feel like lesser than, but then you walk off the court and, you know, a company wants to sponsor you or somebody wants to hear you speak. And then you're told you're valued because of, and so it's just like, what? Like, I don't, that's to me, that's where it's like banging my head against the wall.

Old antiquated ways that just, yeah, go ahead. I like love to use, whether it's like movie quotes or like things you saw somewhere and like bring it all back around. And I don't know why this ever stuck in my head, but I feel like I say it pretty often. It's from the movie Selena. And it's when her dad is like, we have to be more Mexican than the Mexicans and more American than the Americans.

And I feel like that is the life of a female athlete. You have to be like, whatever it is you're supposed to be over here, you have to be that times a thousand. And whatever it is you're supposed to be over here, that times a thousand. And you're just stuck in these places.

And it's actually different for every athlete because everyone kind of has their own lane, for lack of a better, that it might show up in. But yeah, it's like Selena's dad said. Yeah.

Right.

Got him. I think it's a dance. I think you're doing a dance. I think there are days when you feel that way. And then there are days when you're like, man, I hope I score today. I think like Abby said, or she talked about getting older. What happens when you get older is you definitely start to realize what you're good at.

You start to, when you're out there playing, you start to stick to what you're good at. And then, but what happens is you're getting older. You're realizing you're really good at it, right? Like you've proven it. And then your body starts to go a little bit. So then it's like this shift. God. So like, well, is my body going to let me do it?

Like, I know I can do it now, but is my body going to let me do it? And then all of a sudden, for me anyway, the focus shifts to that where I'm in my workouts. The minute I feel any pain, I'm like, oh, this could be it. This could be it. you know, and the rest of my week is spent in retirement. And then I show up the next week and it feels pretty good. And I'm like, all right, I can play forever.

So it's just this constant like dance.

And Sue, you are also? Oh, yeah. I've been the oldest for like five years.

I'm like, good genetics.

No, but I didn't do this forever, but I switched. I switched like my workout regimen. I hired somebody, all this stuff probably six years ago now. And that was like, I was plateauing. And then it kind of, it wasn't even that like I took off. It was just like, oh, it didn't do the decline. It kind of just stayed.

And then I was able to, like you guys talked about when you get older, you are just smarter. You're more experienced than these players. So you can use that as long as your body's there. So I just found a way to keep my body like hovering. And that's how, like, I always say, like people talk about father time. I'm like, I'm just trying to tie him. I'm not trying to win.

I'm not, I'm not trying to win. I just need to tie.

From, like, date night. You know. Yeah. That's those are the outfits you have to bring. They tell you they're like bring a date night, Saturday night, a casual Sunday night and then a workout outfit. And then you have like your proper uniform and you're going to like change these outfits constantly.

Oh, which you like, which you maybe see like 10 seconds of it ever. Yes.

Yeah.

Not.

That was like the proper first meeting.

Right. Different budgets. Different budgets. Wildly different. I mean, she said, what is it called? Manaus? Manaus. That then appeared on 90 Day Fiance. Yes. The hotel. The hotel did. And I was like, oh, I started watching that one season. I don't regret it. I don't regret it. It's not something I'm proud of, but I don't regret it. And I was like, oh, they're in this like crazy Brazil.

She's like, that's where we stayed. That's where we stayed. I was like, what? My clothes are still damp. It's like, it was different experiences. And just real quick, can you explain to us why? Why? So it's actually very simple. USA basketball, the umbrella is both men's and women's. There's a lot of like, how do I explain this? The NBA is very much involved in our USA basketball experience.

It's kind of all one big umbrella, actually. Like the NBA kind of owns the USA basketball rights and it gets kind of, there's a lot of detail to it. But with that, there's a certain standard in which the men are treated and we get treated the same. As we should, as we deserve. Go fucking figure. That's basically what happens, yeah. So it's like they charter, we charter.