Taraji P. Henson

Nice! Oh my God, being on Saturday Night Live really means so much to me because it proves that after 20 years in show business, white people finally know who I am! Now, look, I've been around a while, but a lot of you are just getting to know me as Cookie on Empire. Real talk, this role changed my life. I mean, I spent so many years hustling in this business, and now I'm here.

So I guess you could say I made it. Hallelujah. Don't worry about where you are. Be grateful that you've come this far. You may not always come in first. Just remember that it could be worse. Could have been an extra on the Lion King. Could be wearing some giant toucan wings. Could be trying to make some bachelor's holler. Could be twerking on a pole for a dollar.

I could have been a hip hop video ho. Did it once or twice, but not no more. That was Taraji P. Henson in 2015 in her opening monologue on SNL written by my guest today.

Ah.

Thank you.

No, no, no.

Real talk.

This role changed my life. I mean, I spent so many years hustling in this business, and now I'm here. So I guess you could say I made it. Hallelujah.

Don't worry about where you are. Be grateful that you've come this far You may not always come in first Just remember that it could be worse

That's it.

That's it.

I think it's a culmination of all of it because there is... You know, things that happen in slavery, that's still in our DNA. That's still a part of who we are.

You know, so I can't run from that. That's my makeup. Watching my mother do it. Watching my grandmother do it. You know, it's just what I'm used to. Unlearning that trauma is where I am now. But for so long, it was just, this is what you do. I watched my mother work two jobs to put food on the table and pay the rent for our little apartment. And so I grew up going, that's what you have to do.

You got to work however many jobs and grind hard to make it happen. I was a single mother. So I didn't have time to sit down. I remember one day, and this, like, Marcel was, like, four years old. I was so tired, I wanted to cry. Like, you know, I don't think... I wouldn't wish being a single parent on my worst enemy. Literally, because...

You know, think about when you're exhausted and it's like the baby's crying. Oh, can you go get him, honey? There was no honey. I was honey. So if I worked 12 hours and I come home, I was still honey. I still, if the baby's sick, everything fell on me. You know, and I just remember one day I just, I wanted to, I was on the sofa and I just wanted to give up. But that's not in me either.

You know, I think those thoughts, but then my ancestors go, girl, you better get up.

And does anyone care?

It's going to be hard. Like, I grew up just expecting it. You know, I did. And, you know, it wasn't until, you know, like my son, he's growing up. There's no dad around. I lost my father in 06. His father was murdered two years prior to that. And so it's like, who do I turn to, you know? And then...

As you know, young boys, as he's growing up, the rose-colored glasses come off, and he's starting to see life for a young Black man. And that was difficult. And I'm not a Black man, so how do I help him maneuver through this? And, you know, I was like, we need help.

And it was time to look for therapy, which I never shunned therapy because my father was a Vietnam vet, and he always talked about his struggles openly. And so... I was like, well, then we need help. And so I started looking for help for us.

And when I couldn't find anyone who looked like us, because now I got to get my son to open up to someone and he's not going to feel right if the person doesn't feel familiar. And I was like, something has to be done here. That's when I launched the Forrest Lawrence Henson Foundation in honor of my father. Because I know in our community, we just do not talk about mental health. We don't.

Because we are demonized. We are chastised. It's looked upon as weak. We give it to God.

to be therapists to help other humans. So it go hand in hand. You need both. So I was like, this is a real problem. And we started looking at the numbers and only like 7% of the therapists, clinicians, and psychiatrists were of color. I was like, this is because our children don't know to go into this career, to even study this in college. And so I was like, we have to do something about this.

That's when I started the work in the mental health field. That's when I started checking myself. Like, whoa, you have been operating dysfunctionally for a while. So a lot of the stuff I'm doing now is undoing. It's a lot of undoing. But I'm grateful because I feel better. Yeah, yeah.

And then I can help this generation coming behind to not fall into the same traps that I did and believing the same things that we just didn't know otherwise to believe.

Because it affects you.

Yeah. Right? Yeah, that's why I'm not on social media that much. As you get older, you realize what's important and how to protect your peace. And honestly, social media, we're not supposed to feel all of the emotions that we feel in that short span of scrolling. One minute you're laughing, the next minute you're angry, the next minute you want to cry. That's not even... That's not right.

Something is wrong about that. But, you know, a lot of times that's where you get the news. Or you see something disturbing in it. I'm an empath. So I take things on. I stopped watching the news a long time ago. I had to. Because sometimes I feel like, are they trying to scare us? Like, is there anything good happening out there? So I had to stop to protect my peace.

Mm-hmm. Better learn the word no. Yeah, yeah.

No is my favorite word. Yeah.

And I found out how powerful no is, especially in this town. This is a town of yes. Yes, men. Yes, I'll do it. Yes, whatever you need. Just make me a star. But no is so powerful because that is you taking up for yourself. No, I don't feel like that. Coming to dinner. Mm-hmm. No, I don't want to do that role. That doesn't serve a purpose for me.

I know the check is great. Maybe that's someone else's blessing. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And the relief that I get from saying no because I know I'm protecting my peace. Mm-hmm. I know I'm doing a good thing because for a while I was the yes girl, the people pleaser. And I just couldn't do it anymore because it wasn't servicing me.

And I wasn't feeling fulfilled because why am I doing this? I've had to cut people out of my life. It's okay. You weigh me down. I can't carry your load and mine. You know, family members even. Yeah. Sorry. And you don't learn that. It's unfortunate. You don't learn it until you get older. That's right. You know, because in your 20s, you just, I'm ready to do it all. Even in your 30s still.

But as I, you know, I'll say about 45, I was like, yeah, I'm not going to do that anymore. That doesn't serve me. That doesn't make me happy inside. And if I say, yes, that person is happy, but then I'm left to carry something that doesn't feel comfortable to me.

Yeah, very young.

No, he's not like that at all.

We go to therapy together. You think a mother-son relationship is easy?

Without a dad?

It's not. All relationships need work. You know, even the relationships with my girlfriends, you know, we get in our little stuff sometimes, but you know, we're in a place where we're all in therapy.

I think it was.

I think it was, but I just never forget I was leaving.

But then you become a shock absorber.

And that's what women are. Yeah. Shock absorbers. Yeah. And that's exhausting.

And it's not healthy. It is. It is not healthy. You've had to be shock absorbers for your husband, for your children, for your mom, for your family, your loved ones, because of where you were sitting in the public eye. That's not fair to you. When do you ever get to live for you? I applaud you. I'm happy that you are taking care of yourself in the way that you need to.

And I thought it was pretty late. It was. And I'm leaving because I'm tired. My feet hurt. I have on socks walking to the car. And I remember you saying that.

Because you can't keep pushing through. That's detrimental. That could end very bad because you're not paying attention. I mean, I had a girlfriend one time. She was taking on so much. She didn't even realize she spilled hot grease on her chest. She just disfigured her entire chest doing too much. I mean, physically, it's impossible. You have to stop and go, whoa. What's happening with me?

Because I was like, girl, my feet hurt.

You know, I have to check out. I'm sorry, everyone. I have to check out for my own safety and sanity. Yeah, yeah. And it's a hard thing to do, but you must. You must. I don't know if that's sending the kids away for summer. I used to get on my mom because that last day of school, my bag was in the trunk and she was drinking. You're driving me down south. We are. Right? Now you understand.

I totally get it. I understand that woman needed a break. And I was a lot as a kid. I was very rambunctious. Probably undiagnosed ADHD, but here we are. Found a way to turn living into living. Exactly.

Yeah, but like you're saying, you're just learning. I'm just learning. It's something that you have to do. And hopefully, Shante, you will get this message from hearing from me and from Queen Michelle that you have to take time for yourself in spite of making people happy. At some point, you have to make yourself happy. Yeah. Yeah.

I will never forget that.

Yes, absolutely.

You know, somebody will pick it up. I just celebrated, we, my family, just celebrated my grandmother's 101 birthday. Oh, congratulations. Thank you. And this woman who raised eight of her own children, one niece, raised nine children, was married for 61 years before my grandfather passed away. I see her living her life finally. You know what I mean? Yeah.

And I think that's why she's still around. What does that look like when you say, what does that look like at 101? Okay, so she's been with me to the Oscars. She's been with me to the Emmys twice. She's come out here. She's seen every house that I've owned out here in L.A. She's traveled. She's been on cruises and everything. She not only, she prepares for the next day.

Not only does she look forward to the next day, she prepares for it. I love that. And she was like, what y'all going to do for my birthday? She loves to celebrate and she loves to bring people together and to have a good time. I see her living for herself finally. You know, she gets, it's literally about what she wants to do.

And I know that's why she's still here.

Yeah, or 55. Right. I don't know how old you are, but you better start saying no.

I wish I had known about therapy younger.

I didn't find that until late 40s, 50.

I didn't. I wish I had known about therapy earlier. I mean, I knew, but not only kind of, I didn't know, but I couldn't afford it. Yeah, really. Couldn't afford it.

I have a playroom. I always, okay. So when I grew up, my mom couldn't afford a lot of this stuff. Remember the catalogs? Oh, yeah. We would go in, rip pages, circle. Exactly. And so I always.

Yes. I loved when we got those big catalogs and I would go in there and I would circle and I would always promise myself, I don't care how old you get, but you're going to be successful. And when you do, make sure you have your little girls room. That's what I used to call it. And in that room was going to be all the things that my heart desired.

You know, back then it was dolls and the things that in the toy book. But as I got older, it became the salon. And in the salon is where I play. I have doll head. I have prosthetic hands where I practice doing nails. And during the pandemic, they called me the quarantine queen because I was learning, teaching myself how to do nails. I was teaching myself how to cut and color hair.

And that's where I would go. And anytime I'm in distress, you will find me in my salon.

For myself. People think it's a little creepy because all the doll heads are looking at you when you walk in. But it's my happy place.

Literally, sometimes just saying that because I feel seen. Okay? Okay. You're not just ignoring me. You're not just going on about your way, thugging your way through things. You're going, you know what? I see you're in distress. I just don't know how to help. Then that allows me to go, this is how you can help. Mm-hmm.

Open dialogue.

I heard him say that. Thank you.

I'm in the toy room.

I enjoy... I just got a new puppy. Well, I already have a dog, Buddha. And Buddha just seemed lonely because I can't chase Buddha around. He's a little French bulldog.

And so I got him a friend. Zen, Buddha and Zen. And so right now, that's what occupies my time.

He's four months. Oh, yeah, real. And Buddha is two. And so right now, they bring me so much joy. So that and... You know, family time. And I love going to visit with family. Like I said, I just came back. I have lots of cousins. And, you know, that always lifts my spirits and it gives me the motivation I need to keep going. You know, my family. Because... I just love my family.

I come from a family where, as cousins, we all used to sleep on the pallet. Remember that?

Before the blow-up mattresses, we had big blankets on the floor. And so we're really close. So I'm saying that right now because that's what brought me this joy that I have. I'm carrying right now because I just came back from seeing them.

Well, I am trained.

I do. I watch. Unscripted is good.

Because it makes you forget about your problems. Exactly.

And you're like, ooh, that's part of the turn it off. Exactly. It's just like, they did not. What, girl? No, she didn't. You know, but it's my little secret pleasure.

There's that. But, you know, as an actor, sometimes, you know, sharing a bit of, you know, the character's joy or pain, mine might bleed in a little bit. And I've been through some things in life, you know. It wasn't easy growing up, you know, in the hood or whatever. But... I made it out.

That's interesting. I like that.

No, it's produced so you can have an actual beginning, middle, and end. It has to have some kind of structure. Otherwise, it's just chaos. But at the end of the day, those are real issues.

I watch a little bit of all of them. So do I, girl! Love of hip hop.

I love it because I know a Mama D. Everybody knows a Mama D. They sure do. If you don't have one in your family, you got a Mama D. Then you lying.

You just not recognizing Mama D. I have a Mama D in my family. I ain't going to say who, but.

And you get to talk. And I get the blackness in us, the call and response. Oh, girl. I would have said, I would have, I would have should have, if that was me, uh-uh, no.

Exactly.

You sure did, but you made a connection because I would have never thought she would say love.

But life will throw curve balls at you and it's not always... I know people look at celebrities and they're like, oh, you got it made because you're rich. But like the great guru Biggie Smalls says, more money, more problems. You think your problems go away because you finally made it or whatever. And it's like, no, babe, you get more problems, more expensive problems.

Did I do the right thing? Did I do the right thing?

It just doesn't go, oh, I did it today.

No, some days are easier than others.

But again, you know, the training and just... Being true to the character. And I think as actors, what we do is very spiritual.

Because we use our bodies as vessels to tell a character's truth. And so I can't judge that character.

A lot of times I do. Like I judged Cookie at first. I was like, oh my God, she's a horrible guy.

It was hard not to. But the job of the actor is to show the why.

And when you show the why, that's when you gain empathy.

Because there's always a why.

Yes. Well, TPH, I don't know if a lot of people may or may not know this about me, but I didn't get accepted into Duke Ellington School of Fine Arts in Washington, D.C. And the next thing, my next passion was cosmetology. I love doing hair and nails and makeup. but you had to enroll in the ninth grade. I missed it by a year. And I just think it was God.

I wasn't supposed to go down that path, but that's always been a passion of mine. That's how I fed myself in college, because I didn't have money. And so I would do $20 wet sets because I had a hooded dryer out of my dorm room. And you went to Howard. And I went to Howard. But my first, I started at North Carolina A&T because... Oh, that's right.

Because I really didn't think I could act. That's right. And then my father let me fall flat on my face because math is not... I'm not mathematically wired at all. Me either, girl.

I'm an artist. I am an artist to the bone. And so when I failed pre-calc, my dad was like, that's what you get. Now you get back up here and go to Howard and you enroll and you get back into acting and that's how I... Oh, so you were running from acting.

Oh, wow. Yeah. Wow. I ran from it. I was... I thought you were saying your dad pushed you in the academic... No, he knew that I was a performer. He was telling me when I was little that I would win an Oscar. You're going to be one of the greatest actors alive. And because I'd been hearing that so much from him when I did not get accepted into Duke Ellington, I didn't know how to take that...

12.

So I just thought that, I just thought I didn't have the talent. And so imagine me going back to Howard. I felt out of sorts. And then finally, when I got back into the groove and I found my footing, everybody was like, well, you know, you went to Duke Ellington. And I was like, no, I didn't. They didn't accept me.

Yeah, it was because, you know, in the day of you should be a doctor or you need to be a lawyer, he really saw my gift. But like I said, I was doing $20 wet sets. So hair and cosmetology has always been in me. And I remember when I first got to Hollywood and I started working and I couldn't afford weaves when I was in college.

So when I got to Hollywood, I heard about women, I lost my edges and I didn't want to lose my edges. And I started working. See, we have that issue too, Craig.

Maybe if you would have found TP8 sooner, you would have your edges.

She's making up for all the times when you picked on her when she was little. I'm sure. But in the spirit of saving our edges. Yeah. So I. I just remember I got my first install and I was like, well, this is great for protecting my hair, but how do I get to my hair? How do I take care of my hair while I'm in an install?

And so I created this concoction and I remember going on vacation with a girlfriend of mine and her daughter. They had protective styles and they complained about itchy scalp. But I said, well, use what I use. And I put it together. and they came out of the bathroom. I was like, oh my God, where do I get this? This is amazing. And I was like, give me a minute.

And so that's how TPH was born out of my own necessity. And for me, it was about the education of Scout because I knew women were getting installs wearing wigs, but I was like, I don't think they understand that you still have to take care of your hair if it's in an install. So that's when I was like, this is a great way for me to enter into the beauty industry.

So that's how TPH was born out of my own necessity. And you now own it. I own it. I finally, I bought it back. It's mine. It's mine. I have a lot of work to do, but I am ready. I'm ready for it because it's mine. I feel like, I feel like cookie. I, I own my company, Lucius.

It wasn't easy. It's never easy. You know, as life, you have ups and downs. You have dark days. You have light days. You have gray areas. And for me, it was just learning how to take care of myself. Because as women, we take care of so much. And we take care of the family. And a lot of times... we put ourselves last.

And it took me a while to understand that if I don't pour into myself, I have nothing to give. And I've reached those points a lot in my life, trying to do so much. And I come from the grind, grind, grind. That grinding will kill you. And I would work so hard and then just feel burnt out. And it made me question sometimes is this even still what I want to do? Wow.

You know, because of the exhaustion.

Yes. Yeah. Also to having to do so many jobs because the money, the math wasn't mathing.

I wish I had the luxury of just doing one film a year.

You know? But that's not the case for me.

Yeah. It's not.

So when you see us working a lot, it's because we kind of have to.

And it's going to take us to heal us.

You said I look how youthful I look because I never let that little girl inside of me die. I go outside and run outside with the dogs. I still play like a kid. I laugh. You know, I love jokes. I love funny. I love laughing. I laugh at myself. I don't take myself too seriously. That's the stuff that keeps you young and stops you from being so hard.

It's Mental Health Awareness Month. And on a recent episode of Just Heal with Dr. J, the incomparable Taraji P. Henson stopped by to discuss how she's discovered peace on her journey. So what I'm hearing you saying is healing is a part of us also reconnecting to our childhood in some sort.

To hear this and more things on the journey of healing, you can listen to Just Heal with Dr. J from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

It's Mental Health Awareness Month, and on a recent episode of Just Heal with Dr. J, the incomparable Taraji P. Henson stopped by to discuss how she's discovered peace on her journey. So what I'm hearing you saying is healing is a part of us also reconnecting to our childhood in some sort.

To hear this and more things on the journey of healing, you can listen to Just Heal with Dr. J from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Mm-hmm.

Well, if we knew, I think we would care. If we knew. Mm-hmm. If we knew.