Tate McRae

It's just a little empty sounding. Totally. Like it's like full, but then also empty in a way. Like I could hear every sneaker. That's so crazy to think about. This is like crazy.

I think so. Yeah. The weird part about dancing and singing is when I was a dancer, I used to like hold all my nerves in my throat.

Oh, right. And then I could just cough on stage and then no one would hear me because the music was loud.

I'm an asthma legend. Yes. So that's a crazy way.

No, I do embrace it.

Yeah, I mean, it stuck with me.

Yeah, I do. I embrace it.

Right, because it's there.

Yeah, I think You Broke Me first changed like a little bit and then Greedy I think changed just like the way people like maybe looked at me. Right. Just because they didn't know I danced.

Because it really doesn't... It's so polar opposite.

I think it unlocked a lot for me. I think figuring out how to write over a beat that I would actually dance to was like mission impossible for me. I was just like, I write ballads and I know how to write over piano and chords and things that make me feel things. And then I basically just had to train myself to write over beats. And it's hard. It's just like a... Learning how to do something.

Yeah.

I mean, yeah, I think you're just times are different now. Like I used to write songs for my middle school and high school emotional self. And that was just like my form of expression and very therapeutic for me. And now it's like my career. So it feels like now I envision it on tour.

I envision it like, I think there's just like way more components that come into the songwriting room that just change it for me. And that's like very inspiring thinking about tour and thinking about performances while you're writing. It has to be.

Yeah. I love acoustic sets too. Cause then it feels like that full side of me that, you know, isn't like the one I usually do on stage.

Yeah. I think my, my real fans know that sometimes it is difficult because people only see like me doing a dance break online and they'll be like, she never sings. I'm like, fuck me. I'm singing this whole show.

I've been singing. Yeah. And sometimes they just like, they only see the dance break. So then I'm just like, oh, like, it's sometimes like, you need to watch the whole show. You don't know. You don't know the whole picture.

Thank you.

Thank you.

It was mostly just because I feel like the album was like a lot of it just was around like these road visuals. Every time that I would like write a song, I would just envision like a never ending road. And maybe that was because I was literally on the road all year and like felt like things were never ending.

But I had that like constant visual in my head. So when I heard Two Hands, I was like, we could do a video like this. That could be really sick.

And then sports car just happened to be named sports car.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, luckily I love tour.

I think it's very fun. This is also my first time doing arenas.

Which has been like a lifelong dream of mine. So I'm very like excited for that.

It feels like a new chapter. I also, as a dancer, I feel like you are just used to just like never stopping.

Yeah, I think so. As a dancer.

It is. It's crazy. It's exhausting. Honestly, that, ballerinas, I think, have, like, one of the hardest jobs in the world.

Sometimes being a pop star feels a little, like, easier in some way. Like, a little bit. Oh, my God. Like, a little more relaxing.

Of like pop girls.

Yeah, I mean, we luckily, I think right now we're in a time of just like, there's so much hate on the internet and so much hate in the world that like internally, it's just like very supportive, the most supportive.

And all we want to do is see each other win. Like all my friends and I, we just have very wholesome relationships. Anytime we hang out, it's just very wholesome. I think that's very lucky right now because it is like, we all know how much we get like beat up on the internet. So it's like nice to have friends that like are actually really nice.

Yeah.

Yeah, it is weird. It is weird because sometimes, like, you're just like, I just started writing for fun.

It becomes huge. You're like, whoa, like, you don't expect to get... We know that you're, like, meant to be judged and music is subjective, but you never expect, like, the personal attacks. No. The war that breaks out. The war, like, you're like, oh, this is a huge deal for no reason.

And that is crazy.

Yeah, I started working with her on Think Later and this album.

Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, Amy Allen is one of the most talented songwriters I've ever met in my life. She's so incredible. Such a badass girl. I worked with her and Julia Michaels a lot on this album. I think it's just interesting. Like no one understands a girl perspective quite like another girl. So like you can like have other producers in the room, but it's just like she gets it. Yeah.

I can kind of just like say, this is happening with my boyfriend and she'll be like, oh my God, exactly the same. And it's easier to like put into words.

But it is, it's very inspiring. We have two different like processes in songwriting and obviously different perspectives because we're just have grown up differently. So it's, it's been really fun. I just feel like I get new knowledge every time I work with her.

Like, what is it?

Okay. Well, it kind of depends. So if I'm in the studio alone and I'm just writing on my own, someone will play chords or whatever. And I'll like sit in the corner for like a couple hours, right? Go into the studio track and that's it. Yeah. Um, if I'm with like a co-writer, like an Amy or a Julia or a Ryan, usually we'll start a beat or whatever. We'll kind of get like the vibe for the song.

Then we'll discuss what the song is about. Cause you both need to be on the same page. Right. You're working towards the same goal.

And then it usually just becomes like this, like you find the magic at some point of what the song is and what you both relate on. And then you kind of just like spit back and forth, like different lyrics back and forth. And until the song is like built.

For sure.

Yeah. Cool.

Yeah.

Um, it's honestly just different. Like you, other people have different strengths. Like Ryan Tedder is so good at a pop chorus. Like, and that is his strength. So I'm just like, God, if I'm going to like melodically.

Like if I want to walk into a room and I want to write a pop song, like Ryan, Amy, those are like pop courses that like, yes, usually right. The first thing they sing is like, feels really good.

But if I'm writing something that I feel like is hard to communicate, sometimes I feel like I can't really... I have a hard time discussing my emotions. Totally. So explaining it to someone is really even more complicated. So what I do is I need to be alone. I need to have my subconscious thoughts spit it out for me. And then I can find perspective on the situation, the relationship.

Because I just really am not great at communicating. And that's why I started... writing in the first place. So, but if I have like a concept, it's less deep, deep, deep in the back of your head, then it's fine with another person.

Yeah.

And there's a lot of times where concepts are really obvious. And they're like, oh, this is what I need to write about, whatever. And then there's a lot of times where... You can only find perspective at the end of the process because then you figure out what you actually meant. And that just takes a lot of digging. And that's where I need to be alone.

But if it is an obvious concept and it's just something that is happening in my everyday life, there's some things that are sometimes buried so deep that you're just like, I don't even know where this came from.

I would say an obvious concept... Like a song called Signs.

Signs is like the most obvious because I'm like, okay, can you please fucking read my mind? You need to just like do better. You need to be able to read me.

No, literally. You should just know already. I get it. You should know already. So this was me and Amy walking in. It was a five minute combo being like literally read my mind. And then we started writing the song. So that was very obvious.

Yeah, of course. What's a Webby Award?

Quick conversation. Nothing too deep. I would say a song like Purple Lace Bra took a second to like, it was me writing some concepts on my own and then came into the room and I cracked it with Amy because I had an idea and she helped me like shape it a little bit. So that one was like a little less obvious.

Um, I've always just been obsessed with dance.

Not really. It only started to get ugly at like age 16, 17, where I was like, I want to go to high school and I want to be a kid. And I remember feeling that with like, I want to go to school with my brother. I want to go to a party.

I want to drink alcohol. I want to like, it was just like that feeling of like, I need to be normal.

Yeah, it was like, it was a catch 22 because I felt like the coolest I ever felt was when I was like in my element. Like I didn't feel like cool in school or like my personality always felt like a little awkward. And so I was like, oh, I'll feel myself when I am in my art and in my craft. And that's when people will like fully understand me.

So it was weird because then I went to high school and I was like, oh my God, like now I have even more feelings because I feel so out of place. And it was like, I'm not at ballet school anymore. And so then it drove me after that to like, you know, I think really get into it again.

Yeah.

Yeah.

To go back. No. No, I felt the same. High school was interesting.

Wow.

Probably the same. No, honestly, it was like, it was like normal. It was just like.

Oh, whoa. Okay.

Like probably Calgary. I don't know.

Congratulations. Thank you so much.

Yeah. It did make me feel a little crazy. Because I was just like, oh, I feel really out of place.

And I... And I feel so, I thought I like overthought and overanalyzed myself before this. Now I'm like, my personality is like the biggest problem in the world.

Yeah. So that's when I like really started to, I mean, I loved writing since I was a little kid. I write short stories and poems all the time. But that's when I really started to get into songwriting because I felt so fucking crazy. But I was just like... People need to understand me.

For sure. That's what it's always been for me. It's just like...

literally not being able to explain myself and then being able to explain myself fully through dance and singing and feeling so seen exactly how I want yeah that's weird you feel like when you listen to your albums like is that the number one thing you want is like I feel like I got myself across there like or what is it that's the goal yeah I think it's hard to do that because sometimes you're so locked in a bubble that of perfecting songs that you're just like whoa what was that yeah but that's I think at the end of the day the goal out of every album

Well.

Yeah, I think... You need to hurt... It sounds so depressing.

The 2024 Webby Award winner goes to Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. Oh, my God.

You know, I think I'm a pretty happy person.

No, no, it was a great way. I mean, it's exactly what it is. I feel like I'm a very... normally happy and like stable person. But then there's like one little hole inside of me that's so fucking sad. And I don't know what that is. And it just like, that's what I write from.

The answer is always yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get that. No, I really don't know what it is. It's always like, it's been since I was like a little, little kid. It might be because I'm a Cancer.

Okay, you're Pisces. Scorpio. Okay.

I know more about Pisces than I do Scorpio. Okay.

Whoa.

That we don't have the edge.

Right. We're like a little spicy, but really sensitive.

Right.

Right.

Right. Cancer and Pisces get along really well. Same with Scorpio. We all get along really well.

Yeah.

We do in the ocean.

Yes. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Yeah, it is. Well, I think then that clicks into my like performer side, which feels like my alter ego, feels like my side on tour, feels like the mode that isn't my like sensitive self is like what I turn on when it's time to perform.

And that's if I'm going to write that kind of song, I have to be in that headspace.

I mean, it's so hard because I try not to approach it that way because you just want to like go in and experiment for like months. And then there hits a point where your label's like, okay.

Experimentation is done. Where's the single? And then it becomes really fucking stressful because then you're just like, oh my God, what's the song? And this is where I become the most indecisive person ever.

Like, my team, like, wants to shoot me when I'm picking a single because I can't decide. Don't hurt Tay.

You can't see it. It's like, you can't see your own work when you're in the middle of creating it. Like so many words and jumbles and you're like hearing yourself talk and sing back. That's like, you can't,

I literally cannot pick a single. It's so not obvious to me. It all sounds the same, but that shouldn't be part of your job. No, it literally sucks. It is literally part of my job and a very important.

Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I think everything happens for a reason.

The reason is like, I think you can always have doubts about songs, not like things about some songs, like things about other songs and wish. The worst part is like you love things and then it's like the week to release, you know, this is the worst fucking song I've ever heard in my life.

Yes. And now you're just like processing it too much. But I think singles happen for a reason. I think they've like, they make sense and the album will make it all come together.

Off the album?

Okay, I'm excited for Blood on My Hands. Yeah. And I'm excited for Like I Do because I feel like it's a little different.

She's got like... Sounds great. She does sound great. I've just also never done a song like that with a rapper. Right.

I know. Major. It's fun. Major.

Yeah.

Thank you. I love Greenlight too.

Greenlight was one that I wrote on my own. That was a hidden one where I was like, I don't know how I feel right now in this relationship. And not in a bad way. I don't know how I feel. It was more or less just being like, what am I feeling? And what I had felt was I was still hurt from a past relationship.

And then I was like, fuck, I feel like I'm like waiting at a green light. And I literally just can't press the gas.

And I thought that was such a weird feeling. And that was like the road metaphor. But that one was fun to write. I like that one too.

Thank you.

Of course.

And also, you just can't unhear or undo things that have happened to you in the past.

They're just stuck with you. You are now just a reflection of your past. And you have to learn how to have a better experience and overshadow that or fall in love again and feel the good things again. But you have to... jump off first before you fall in love.

I know.

It's so weird. Like you never do this with friendships or with things in life where... You are the closest person and then it's all of a sudden just like nothing. Like that is so shocking to the system. It's a death. Like it is a death. Heartbreak is so awful.

There's like, oh, I was talking about this the other day and I was just like, that was one of the like worst feelings ever. Like any type of heartbreaks, you're just like, what is this? I shouldn't care this much, but I care so much.

You can't.

That's wrong.

I agree.

Okay, I've thought long and hard about this because... I'm really not like that into pop culture.

Okay, but I will say like one moment, I was like a big Disney Channel kid when I was younger. Yeah, let's go. And I really do think that that shaped my personality. And I remember that Hannah Montana was life-changing for me.

Just like me being like, well, I have to become a pop girl now.

I have no other option. Like I have to become a pop star now because that is...

so sick I will have a place where I can put that version of me yeah she kind of was doing what you talked about which is like I do want to be a kid but also I know I'm a superstar and that's how they'll understand me totally so yeah no that's how I kind of felt like in high school like not to that extent of course but like a little bit did that open up like country music for you too in a way or no like did it make me want to do country music or just like did it give you an appreciation like you're like Billy Ray like who's this man who's this

man I can see you doing country you know what I can too because Calgary for some reason is kind of country like we have like this one month in the summertime where literally the whole place is like haystacks cowboy hats only country music isn't there a festival yeah stampede yeah so weird like it's just for one month like awesome the whole town goes, goes country, straight country.

There's, yeah, whatever. So I'm like actually into country music. Yeah. But I did feel that like coming home, like when Miley would come home and she'd sing the climb and she'd take off her wig and she'd be like, it's just me.

I just like remember being like, this is going to be me one day. Like,

Yeah. Manifesting. It's giving Hannah Montana. Right. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, I think that was really shoved in our faces at that age of, like, Disney Channel was glamorizing pop stars.

I remember every show, like, Camp Rock even.

That was our era. Yeah.

High school musical, they were singing. Yes. Yes, exactly. Just being, like, whoa, like... This is legit. Yeah. You want to be a star. I'm going to sing.

I just remember that feeling. Like, this is the shit. This is the only thing in life is music.

I think that's the whole lore. I think that's what... I wish I could like go back and be like, oh, it was an earlier pinpoint, but really it was Disney Channel.

No, I was still making it.

That was one that like my brain was forming. And I was, that was, I was watching that every day being like, Alex and Mrs. Waverly Place is my personality. Hannah Montana is my life. And I'm going to go do Camp Rock with Joe Jonas. Like that was like my whole like, this is going to be my life.

Yeah.

Oh, YTV is like a channel.

My family had Disney Channel.

I remember YTV. Yeah, no.

Yeah, she was. She was.

Very formative years in your life.

Literally.

How did I meet current boyfriend? I have known him for three years. We've been friends. And it wasn't until last year I was in Cabo and he happened to be in Cabo at the same time. And we have never had one good interaction. We're in the same friend group. So we have the same like... And we hang out all the time. And we had never had one non-awkward experience. Really?

Like a little bit. He's like, we weren't enemies. I'm like, yes, we were. Wow. We just had this feeling where like every time we would say something to each other, it was just like not what we planned to say. Yeah. Like the most social suicide moments of all time. Yeah. Like I would trip every time I'd see him. I'd like try to dap him up. I'm like, why the fuck did I just dap him up?

So weird. I wouldn't dab up anyone else. No. Literally, I'm like, what was that? Like, I was so out of character. And I remember he used to be like, why do these friends like Tate? And I'd be like, why do my friends like Leroy? And how do we all get along?

Yeah.

And he texted me and he was like, are you here? And I was like, yes. And then we...

Got together.

Thank you.

I think I'm so about personality. Like if we have like a funny connection or like you like get me, that's when I'll really get a crush on someone.

It's never from like first glance.

Yeah. Cause we actually had good conversations that trip and like, yeah. It felt like we finally clicked. We finally got each other.

Yes.

You were like, who's single? I was like. Oh, that's so funny. I was like, I was like. I was really in my single era.

There was no one at that party.

Yeah, I was sitting beside some people and I was like. Yeah. We're not hitting it off.

Because I've heard it's like can be the craziest thing on earth. That night it was like... It was like mid-level.

Right? Yeah, yeah, sure.

Thank you for having me. I didn't know when to come in. I was like, should I sit back?

They weren't working.

But that was tough. I really don't like looking for guys. Like, it's so exhausting.

I'd much rather be natural. It just happens. Totally. It's like friends to lovers. I'm like that. That vibe.

That was that vibe for sure. Which felt way more natural.

I'm not like a big flirt up front.

No.

That's not me.

It is so funny. The Tate on stage is like so polar opposite to my actual personality.

Hannah Montana. I'm going to get dragged for like.

We all wanted to be her and she's an icon. But yeah. Yeah. So I don't know this like person that I am on stage. My mom is always just like.

Like, I'm like, I don't know. She's like, you're too sexy or you're too like, it's too much. Like the eyes are too intense. I'm like, it's not me. Like, cause I have like these like lock in eyes. Like when you're on stage, it's just like, it's happening. But it's just like very different from my actual personality. So it's like shocking sometimes to my family.

We're locked in.

In conclusion.

Yeah, I felt like it was like a closed conversation.

She's so locked in. My daughter's too locked in.

Yeah.

My alter ego kind of?

Literally. I've made it into like a joke. So I talk about it like way too much. Like probably way more than I should. But it's... I call her Tatiana.

Yeah, Tatiana. And it's just... When I go on stage, I black out. Like, I don't actually remember that much. We just, like, perform.

Right? Like, you feel like you're... It's now just, like, a thing with your body and God. Like, in the universe. And it's just, like, you get possessed. And that's the best performance. When I become too aware of, like... I always say this is like the craziest example. When you're on stage and you become too aware and too in your body, it feels like you're like manually breathing.

You know, when you're in bed and you're like, And you remember that you have to breathe. And then you stop breathing because you're like, this is really, this is an automatic thing.

Okay, don't think about it before bed.

If you think about breathing before bed, you will stop breathing. Because it is so automatic.

They'll be fine. They're sweet. They're sweet.

Yeah.

You're just, it's, and then when you're on stage and you have people watching you and you're like, you forget how to like walk and move.

I have to. Otherwise I become way too aware. Right. And then I could like do nothing normal. Like nothing is, it's just like, you have to be in a different body or a different space.

Yeah. It's bizarre.

It's like, it's crazy. That's crazy you wrote a song and then you had to perform it.

It's really crazy. No, but that's where I get like all like the, that's where I feel like the universe is just like planning everything out because I'm like, cool. These coincidences and these things happening, like aren't, aren't just like random. Like they're just meant to happen.

It does.

Yeah, they're great.

Like, and I think that like, yeah, I feel like, I feel like you like know that from a young age, you kind of like know what you're going to do.

Well, the forum will be fun. The forum is going to be great. Doing a couple nights there, which will be fun. And MSG again.

I love.

I know. MSG is just special. Just New York. I just bought a place in New York. Good for you. Thank you. New York is just like my place. Yes. New York is the best. It's so magical there.

Yeah.

I try. I'm just like on tour a lot.

Yes, I did.

I saw that at the forum.

They're terrifying. All stans, I think, are a little terrifying. Yeah.

Really?

I think so too.

Yeah, that was wild.

Yes, I did.

What'd you think? We just went to Tokyo for the first time. We ate so much steak. Yes. I turned into a grain of rice. Oh my God.

Like we just like, but we had like the best time ever. Like Tokyo is one of my favorite places.

Yeah. It's, I've never seen it. We, we played with pigs.

Honestly, I think the closest fangirl I've been is to Ariana Grande. I've just been obsessed with her for a very long time. She's the closest I think I've gotten, and then maybe Rihanna. I feel like those two are the girls that I'll die for.

We did. That was like number one. Micro pig? Yeah. They're, they're like, well, they're maybe not micro. There's some big ones.

They're macro pigs.

Yes.

Yeah, those are crazy.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, and they like sit in your lap.

Yeah.

No, it was perfect. And then they all stack on top of each other. So there's like eight in your lap at once.

I don't know, but...

Yours is a micro pig?

What do you think yours is? What are your guys' is?

Okay.

I don't really see that.

Okay. I could see that.

Yeah. Why are you laughing? I'm not laughing. I'm just like picturing it.

I feel like you're more of like a koala or something.

Yeah.

I feel like I would be a... Hmm... Don't look at him. I feel like you're. I want to be a cheetah, but I'm not a cheetah. You are so a cheetah. No, you're absolutely a cheetah. What are you talking about? You don't think you're a cheetah? I don't think I'm that fast.

Right. You have a cheetah energy. Really?

She's a cheetah.

I could be more of like a rhino or something.

I feel like they're like, ugh.

Okay, I'll take it.

Yeah, together. We're a cheetah. Because a cheetah writes, too. Just a little slower.

Like a little slower than a cheetah.

Okay.

Yeah. Okay.

I call her Tatiana.

That was Tatiana for sure.

I've actually never committed a crime. Never? I'm a big goody two shoes.

Yeah, I don't. I really do not cause any trouble. I will say.

Yeah.

I am good. I'm pretty wholesome.

Okay. Yeah, I'm pretty good at tissue. So, like, that arrest scene was funny. My parents were on set, too. Oh, they were? Was it giving a pasty vibe? I don't know. It wasn't even naked. It was a two-time. Okay, yeah. Let me say this. Set the record straight. This, like, the editing was so good that it looked like I was super naked. I was in, like, full-on, like, a workout set. Just beige.

So I was sitting there, and I'm just doing my acting.

Like, whatever. So it wasn't even that intense. Yeah. And so my parents were like, woo!

We're so down.

They're like, this is pop. Yeah, this is pop. My dad was like, yes.

Like, they were just like, this is really cool. And then the editing came back.

so realistic it was giving girls gone wild it was giving like whoa like they did too good sure they did too good and the final edit wasn't until like two days before so we had been all the edits everyone was like oh this is great it was like and the final edit was like so realistic. So real. That all of us were kind of numb to it.

So when I was like, when the internet became like shocked, I was like, oh, like I didn't really like think too hard about this.

So that was, that was funny because it wasn't actually like, it wasn't that like naked on set.

It's okay.

I didn't take any offense to it.

Okay, so I can pick up pretty fast, I would say. Like, I can learn it right before, memorize it, and perform it. Like, for when we premiered, it's okay, I'm okay. Like, we learned it the day before. Wow. And then did it. Once I do the performance, it's out of my head.

I don't remember. Unless we rehearse it for weeks, and then it, like, sticks.

Yeah, I have, like, no memories.

Of all time?

I need to think.

That's a hard question. And to think on that for a second.

Because that's a big one. That is a big one.

I'm still thinking. It's a commitment when she says it. It is a big commitment. I know. That's a huge. I mean, I would say like Single Ladies by Beyonce. Well, yes. Like, I just think that that was big for me.

I don't think I did. Yeah. But I just remember watching it a lot.

Yeah.

Yeah. I think comparisons are just hard because like obviously every person that comes onto the scene, they instantly get a comparison. People just like familiarity. But I think it's just hard because like you can't create, like recreate great art like that. Like it's a new thing.

Okay.

I don't know what move you're referring to.

I'm trying to remember the choreo.

This is cool. This one? Yes.

Do that. Do it again. Yes! Because that's getting car. That's a dancer's hand. It's like the hip wave. And then you like drive the car.

It's like giving like hip wave and then car.

Yes! Yes.

You should. You should.

Okay.

Okay. You'll be on tour.

Okay.

October.

Of course I want to have a Halloween. Yeah. So November, because we just announced new dates.

For now.

Yeah. So now it's November and I don't get a Halloween.

I actually haven't moved in yet. Oh, okay. I put the offer in like two days ago. Congrats.

I hope so. Sometimes they pull out.

I think so too. I think I'm going to really enjoy there in the next year in New York.

Yes.

Yeah.

I gotta.

Wait, didn't I say single ladies?

Yeah, exactly.

Cancer vibes. Well, I think... Your hand in this award right now? I know.

Uh-huh. Where?

Okay.

Well, do you need some help? Like how to learn it?

Yeah, I can help. If you're going to, if it's like, we should learn from you.

This is so ambiguous.

I approve.

Like zero.

Literally. Zero years old. Zero years old. Baby vibes. Yeah.

A little bit.

Is it in culture or it can just be in life?

Being that naive is a nice feeling.

When he was in Jane the Virgin.

I like your hair right now.

Yeah, it looks really good.

It does. Do I have a good skull shape? You have a really good skull shape.

That's hard because a lot of people don't have a naturally good skull shape.

They're frying.

No. I don't think so.

I don't think I could buzz.

I feel like I have a strange head shape.

What's tummy time?

Oh, I don't know. I feel like they must have forgot. Mine was a little flat.

Want to tell you about that? You know what's a tip for babies is my mom says that your hips form before you're two years old. So if you stretch your baby's hips before you're two years old, she did this to me. She would stretch my splits before I was two. Wow. And so my hips are naturally open because she formed my hips that way.

So that's a trick. If you want to have it.

I think that's most babies nowadays. It's crazy.

I did get it from my mama.

Meng flopped.

Is your hips?

Well, but then I used, you just stretch. I did really gymnastics when I was younger too. I was going to say, so they would, they would take your like first leg on a chair, your back leg on a chair and they'd sit on your knees.

it's no that's crazy and you just be sobbing for like just like why is this happening and they're like so you can one day become the queen of the dance break literally like you like actually this is for your own good tate mccray yeah maybe that hole of pain is from that is from the tears from this thing sitting on you so you are that girl who could just whip out a cartwheel Yeah, always.

The little, these ones?

Oh, 100%.

I was that bitch.

You were like, Tate's flipping in the back. Yeah.

Yeah.

Are you calling these the slutty glasses?

Right.

It's that.

Is that a weird question? I wish it was that easy. Yeah.

Maybe that's what I should start doing.

Thank you.

A little giggle at the end.

Thank you.

Really?

Really? Yes! I think it made my face look a little long.

That's the voice in my head. I felt like I needed a layer or something. We didn't have enough time to cut a layer, though.

He was super nice, actually. He was really cute and sweet.

I'm allergic to horses, but I do love them.

I'm allergic to horses.

Thank you. I love the slutty glass. I think it's really nice.

Yeah.

I had a ball routine. Yes. Where you like put the ball in between your back and you'd be like. He's like literally like do a somersault with it. Yeah.

I have no idea. And I also don't understand the reason for it. Like I don't understand why I trained that hard to like fit a ball between my back and do a somersault. It's crazy.

It is, but it's such an interesting thing because it's the same with dance. Like I did a music video yesterday. I'm like, I am literally dying for dance right now. And then dance.

I'm just like exhausted, bruised, like literally killing myself and just for a dance break.

I didn't think it really fit the fit. Today is a classy day.

Like that is such a weird concept.

Yep.

Yeah, I have bruises everywhere. Yeah.

Yeah.

I did.

We sat here, we were like... Yeah, it was cold.

Okay, okay.

Okay.

Okay, so I'm only doing this because my mom just came into town. And it's just a frustration I've had... with CarPlay in my, in my car. So whenever my parents, so it's a little finicky, like the USB and the Bluetooth switches on and off a little bit, but then I get to a point where it's pretty consistent and I walk in, it clicks, whatever.

My parents come into town and every single phone hooks up all of a sudden. And they're like, I'm like, guys, turn off your Bluetooth. And they have no idea how to turn off the Bluetooth. 30 seconds. So it's just like swipes. I'm like, mom, dad, I like grab their phones. I'm like, it is the most frustrating.

Yeah, it's a classy day.

And it's just really hard because I feel like I lose ownership of my car when they come into town because I can't listen to my music. I can't, my navigation is off and it is just really frustrating.

I don't think so, honey.

It also should just be better. I don't understand why it's not better.

My turn isn't, yeah.

Of course.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, it's not.

No, that's scary. That is really scary.

No, I haven't. Really? Okay, let's call her.

I think so too.

Apple Maps.

Why are you guys Google Maps?

I think the complete opposite.

I think it's just a cleaner layout. I think that it's just less clunky. You have to zoom in on Google Maps. Apple Maps is just automatic.

Big chunk of the podcast.

Sure.

Thank you.

Like this?

It does feel good. It feels great.

Thanks guys.

I mean, Dangerous Woman was like my shit. I just think that Into You is the best pop song ever created.

Please.

With love.

Please come.

That would be so fun.

Okay.

I think there is for that dance.

I don't think you really can.

You can just post stuff.

And if it trends, it trends. Because it wasn't...

That was good.

That was good.

Yeah. That's what you want.

To have someone else create the Apple dance. This is a marketing meeting now.

Yeah.

Have a glass of wine. Listen to the album. Sit back.

I think so. And like a chill.

Don't think too hard. I mean, but think hard.

Think harder. Think later.

Yeah, just completely contradicting myself. Every album.

I actually don't think so.

I truly think it is one of the best of all time. And I think it didn't at first get the recognition that it deserved.

I do think it was actually pop perfection. And I remember talking to Ilya about it, who produced the song. And he was like, we crafted it over such a long time. Yeah.

Yeah, it's a perfect song. So I think Dangerous Woman was like... My favorite. There's also just like little album cuts that when I was younger were just like my shit. Just like in the car, like really feeling them, like thinking about you. I love thinking about you. And Touch It are just like.

I fully agree. Yeah. Yeah, it's like serotonin.

Crazy.

Mm-hmm.

I've worked with him a couple times.

I've worked with him like a couple times, but we haven't released that many records together. I write all the time.

But this was like one of my first ones I wrote with him.

Kelly Clarkson rendition of it.

a equal passion or is that something that you discovered when you realized like recorded music could be a thing well i started off as a dancer yeah so trained super intensely since i was eight years old like 40 hours a week like wow i was at a ballet school i was gonna say your ballet train that's intense like six hours of ballet a day like very intense at one point i like literally went to berlin to become a ballerina like wow

And then I was like, this isn't for me. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I was 12 at the time. I was like competing in ballet. Like, I was just like, I need to, I was so creative. I just needed to like not do the same thing every day. Yeah.

Yeah, I did something you could dance at age 13. Uh-huh. And then when I was 13... So yeah, I was competing my whole life. Dance was like everything to me. I was like, this is the only thing I'm going to do in my life is dance. And then I went on So You Think You Can Dance and moved to LA for two and a half months. And then got back home to Calgary and I was... I was just like, I am so bored.

Like I was just on TV. You came third place? Yeah. It was, it was a really crazy two and a half months.

And I was like the only Canadian on this like American voted show. Yeah.

Yeah. It was, it was weird. Like none of my friends or family could like vote in the show. I'm like, well, fuck this sucks. Yeah. But yeah, so I got home and I started this YouTube channel and I was like, I'm going to choreograph dances every week and post them every Friday and post them on YouTube. And then one day my camera broke and I was like, fuck, my camera broke. Like this is ruined.

Like my Friday posting isn't happening. So then I locked myself in my bedroom and I was just like, I'm just going to write a song. And so I taught myself how to play the chords of Tequila by Dan and Shay. Wow.

Great song.

And I started playing these like C chords and then wrote this song in like two hours and then showed my parents. And they were like, absolutely not. You cannot put this on the internet.

Because there was like this.

is like not good like they didn't get it at the time but you were in the zone you were locked the in i was locked in two hours you wrote a song i was locked in they were like can you please shut up i was like singing so much and then like blew up overnight and just became that song that song blew up overnight like got called by like 14 record labels within like two weeks

And then all of a sudden, I was like, okay, maybe I should start songwriting more. Wow. Yeah.

Yeah. So, so then after eventually when I released, you broke me first at age 16, I was still in high school, finishing homeschooling and finishing everything and then doing dance on one side and then singing on the other side. And my career started to like pick up a little bit and, but I was stuck at home and COVID. So I started this like singing career, but I was like, dance is just so separate.

Like this isn't a thing that should be mixed. And so I just never knew how to connect the dots. I was just like, this will be the one side of me. And then the other side of me is just a thing of the past. And then obviously as I grew up, like 17, 18, 19, I was just like, something is like really missing. And then I ended up like being like, I want to do pop more intensely. And yeah.

And so then I feel like I've like finally found a perfect mesh of like dance and singing.

Yeah, what happened? I want to know your perspective.

It was fun.

No.

Yeah.

Right.

I was going crazy.

Really? I was so nervous.

It also just feels like on that stage is so small. It's so tiny. That like doing a dance break, I was like, is this kind of weird? I didn't know. I really didn't know because I was just like, oh my God, is this like a little extra to like be doing a full dance break on like a little box.

And also the sound in there is very like

He didn't say anything about it. He was like, oh. He's perfect. He was like, oh, cool. Yeah. Yeah, but in nostalgia, in that line, I manifested you, we'd leave, so the day you did, I had you beat, is like a weird thing. When I write songs, sometimes it feels like I manifest the future when I write it. Yeah.

Because sometimes I won't relate to a song, and then six months later, the song ends up turning into a reality, which is really weird. Really?

I think it's like an actual form of manifestation is like writing down music. Or predicting the future because I'm a fucking psychic. Did you see that? Oh, yeah. Did you guys see that?

Yeah, I woke up and I'm like, what is happening? My dad goes, the internet thinks you're a witch. I'm like, what?

That was crazy.

What? You know what, though? I will say, I think I have psychic abilities.

Because before I got into that car crash, remember? Remember seconds before, I was like, we're about to get into a car crash.

And then, bang. Like, that happens, like, all the time.

Like, maybe?

I don't know. I don't really think too hard about it.

Yeah.

Did it work? Mm-mm. Mm-mm.

Aw.

Jake.

Aw, Jake.

Cheers to that.

They're still a little iffy on it.

No, they appreciate the songwriting.

That, I think, is one of my most, like,

personal songs though it's so personal um it was like kind of based off a conversation I had with my dad just about I was in Barcelona with my dad and my mom and I was playing that like game of questions I was like drilling them like what's your biggest regret what's your biggest we're not really strangers it was that and then I started yeah I started asking a lot of questions um and then I was I was just like what's your biggest regret or like what do you wish you could have done right and he was like oh I wish I was an architect

It was a lot simpler than this. Yes. You've grown.

And I was just like, oh my God. And he was like, yeah, I would have preferred to do that. Oh my God. Like I got so sad. Cause I'm like, you just went through like 25 years of your job and was never an architect. And he was like, but that's why I raised you to always follow your dreams. And I know he's like to follow your passions. Cause he's like, I don't want you to ever live with that feeling.

And I was just like, oh, I have really fucking good parents. But it started from that being like, oh my God, that's a lot of people. Yeah. I think because sometimes you're scared or your situation or things in life, you just go through your whole life and you're like, oh, I wish I could have done so many things. And that was really sad to me.

Thank you.

I like that. Well, cheers. To life.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Super Bowl weekend.

Thank you. And friendship.

Aw, Jake.

I'm really excited to perform it live, too. I think it's going to be very fun.

Yeah, we're doing arenas for the first time. It's going to be a totally different show, I think. I mean, I feel like there's way more of a story to tell. There is. It feels like that. Yeah. Last year felt a little more disjointed, I feel. I feel like this year feels like way more of like a through line.

You know, I did say that I was, like, sports car, everybody in the arena whisper.

I like that, too. I thought about it, and I'm, like.

And I'm, like, speak up. I'm, like, maybe I shouldn't have said that.

Yeah, we'll see what happens.

Chug it down. I needed that.

Do you like that song?

Okay, good.

Thank you. I wrote that actually the last week when I was in New York. That was like one of the last albums or tracks I added to the album was Blood on My Hands.

Yes.

Well, yeah. So I saw a healer after the leak and I was like, what do I do? And she was like, everything happens for a reason.

Yeah, she was like, this was meant to happen. And I was like, really? She was like, this was meant to happen. And she was like, now go do your thing. And I kind of like, I was like, let me get back in the studio. Let me write a couple more songs. And I actually did feel like it filled a hole in the album that needed to be filled.

Yes. Yeah. I did Like I Do, Blood on My Hands, and that's it.

And then, that was so cute of you. Because I'm obsessed. That was so soft.

Yeah, it was really funny. Yeah, we just, honestly, we were in New York when we finished this song, but. It was really interesting just, like, watching him do his process. Yeah. And then, like, I was really nervous. Like, getting on the mic, I was just like, close your ears.

No. I was just like, don't listen to me.

But he was, it was fun. Like, we just had a, it was, I've never really collaborated with someone in the studio like that. All of my past, like, kind of collabs have been, like,

And yours were Signs and Purple Lace Raw.

Means I Care.

That's what it's called, I think.

It's Means I Care, I swear.

I think so.

I feel like there's I think I really wanted a lot of vocal layering throughout the album, which I feel like I've never done. I've always done just like one straight vocal pass and that's it. A lot of vocal layering. I feel like I'm singing in, like, falsetto in my higher range a lot of the album, which I like.

But, yeah, it feels like a mix of, like, really hard production and, like, really airy vocals. And that's kind of what I wanted, like, taking some reference from, like, Lana, taking some reference from, like, some early 2000s records. Obviously, like, Nelly Furtado. Like, just, like, those kind of songs. But then also... Yeah, what else did I take reference from?

Hi, Taki. Hi, Tati. How are you?

Yeah, of course. But I do think like sonically I was pulling from... Yeah, I was listening to more like R&B music this year, which I think influenced it in a way. Yeah.

I mean, I listened to SZA all year long. And then I went back and listened to Drake's Take Care again.

It's one of the best albums ever. It's so good.

Yes. I love that song. I know. That album is so good.

I'm good. I'm so happy to be back.

Oh, okay. I think the one of them that I really love was, and I manifested you would leave, slid day you did, I had you beat. Love that one.

It is a very, like, visual song. I feel like that song was so fun to write with another female, like Amy Allen.

I can't believe I was your first guest. I can't believe that you've been doing this for like a year and a half now. It's crazy.

She's amazing. Yeah, it was me, Amy, and Emile Haney. And it was just interesting because we were dancing on like a fine line of it feeling like sensual and sexy and like pretty. But then also like being a really heartbreaking song about how I was feeling. But it was like a really weird line that was like teetering. And I just...

I remember we were like talking and we were like, oh, like in a relationship when a guy is like not hearing you. It's like, would you hear me more if I talk to you like sex?

And I was like, oh, that's such a crazy thing. Like they're willing to watch, but they're not willing to listen. Yeah. And so we were like, that could be, it felt very like relative to my dancing and my singing and. my relationship with that. And then also just like some people's relationships as girls, just like not feeling heard unless you're like, you know, appealing to somebody else.

I'm a little nervous. I think I just don't know. Like, like some of these lyrics are a little crazy for me.

I've just been writing songs since I was 13. Right. They've started at age 13 lyrics, like...

Like, there's a girl and she's heartbroken.

Yeah, like, I have songs called, like, So To My Ex-Best Friend. Like, I literally have songs like that on the internet. So to watch, I think sometimes seeing, like, a jump like that, like, I'm always just like, are they going to stick with me? Like, are you going to stay with me? Because they have until this point. But it's just, like, progression.

I was really nervous about Purple Lace Bra because of the lyrics.

I don't know what version of the bridge you have.

I'm not going to say it.

Um, but, uh, that song, I think I was a little nervous for, um, I'm like forgetting the whole album. Yeah. No worries. Like I was a little nervous for sports car. I was terrified for sports car. Yeah. Because I usually like a really melodic chorus and also the whisper was really freaky to me.

I was just like, this is like a coin toss for me.

And also my mom was like terrified for me to release that song.

She, you know, my mom, she was just like, are you sure? Like, this is straight. I was just like, mom, it's like, I'm like, it's a metaphor. Think about it that way.

Yeah. think of a sports car um yeah i think i was really excited for the visual of sports car and i was really nervous for the song and i think people will like it i loved that music video yeah that was the most amount of looks you did in one day right yeah 12 looks all archival like it was those looks were like me playing dress up all day was there a favorite look you did

Yeah, the cheetah corset was one of my faves. I loved that look. I thought it was so chic. And then there was also this pony look that was so cute. And I just thought my hair was blown out.

Oh, thank you.

No, that's the horse look.

No, there's a pony look.

It just looks like a pony.

I'm so tired.

And now I know... Jake has no idea. No, I do.

I'll show you.

My phone is gone. I don't know where it is. But I love the horse look. I love it. That was a Versace look, which is really cute.

All the time.

Tom, Allie.

May.

So, no. I don't know the dances yet. Um, the only, yeah, I don't know that we only, we only have like a couple of weeks before rehearsal.

Yeah, it is really quick.

Oh, we were freaked out for that. That show was stressful because I, A, was nervous about our bit because I'm like, my grandpa was standing right in front of you and I'm like, oh my God, if he blocks the shot and gets in front of Jake.

Yeah.

He would have. He was so confused the whole show. He got it.

And then I was like, oh no, like on stage, like what if he blocks Jake and then Jake can't see me? Yeah.

It was nerve wracking.

It was also just like you having a mic in the crowd and us having an interaction. Like, I was like, this could like be really bad.

We nailed it.

Yeah. And then I left. And then we did good.

But when I was doing Grave, that show, I just remember I was like singing this ballad. And the whole time I was like. Like, because I was just practicing in my head. Oh, no way. Because I had... We just, like, were like, if I forget this choreo on stage, like, I'm fucked. Yeah. Like, we just learned... It hadn't, like, cemented in my brain yet.

It was so intense.

If I messed up, the whole thing would have been thrown off.

I know. And that was such an exciting moment for me. Like, I was, like, premiering a song, like... If I mess this up, it was all like on video too. So I was like, if I mess this up, I'm going to cry.

Headsets are so complicated.

You have to like tape down your head. It's so much easier to hold the microphone. Yeah. It really is. Like headsets are just a lot.

Oh my God.

People thought I was, like, foreshadowing the head mic. Like, they thought I was, like, foreshadowing it. I'm like, fuck the mic.

I mean, I'm not great at titling things. The problem with titles is like... It's hard to capture a whole body of work in like three words or one word. I think... I just felt like at some point in the album, I always have to have some sort of epiphany about life. I need to have some sort of reason for why I'm doing anything. Otherwise, I feel like I'm driving towards nothing.

It was so sick. Well, I think someone bumped my arm, and because I had, like, because I put on, like, lots of, like, lotion. Yeah. It was, like, oily on my hands. Yeah. And someone bumped my arm, threw it at me, and I was like, fuck. Like, of course tonight is the night that, like, this happens.

I was nervous.

I was nervous. I think it was because of It's Okay. I was really stressed about that. And then that happened, and I was like, Jesus Christ. Like, there's nothing I can do.

Yeah, it was fun.

It was a milestone. And, like, my whole family was there.

I know you did.

With Grandpa. My grandpa kept leaving in the middle of the show to go grab, like, the never-ending sushi bar.

There was so much sushi there. He, like, got, like, because we were there, I was just like, oh, you can sit in, like, I think he was in the owner's box or something. Then he kept, my mom was like, Papa, stop leaving. Like, he kept leaving the show to go get sushi.

He did.

Yeah, he took videos of like every single one.

I know.

Yeah, how do you watch and take videos at the same time?

I wonder if he's, yeah.

Go for it, Jake.

It was so fun. Haley is such a badass person. Honestly, one of, like, the coolest women on set. Like, she was so supportive the whole time. She was watching the whole shoot. She knew exactly what she wanted, the poses exactly. And it was really cool to watch her do her thing. Like, she really, like, is the mastermind behind that whole operation.

Yeah.

And that's the thing is like it's just cool to see someone work that hard and put that much effort and time into something and actually do so well.

Yeah. It was really fun. It was great.

Thank you. Of course. Jake knows everything already.

I didn't. You didn't.

I know. I know. Well, yeah, what should we talk about now?

Yes!

Yeah, you did. You did egg me on. And...

It's not good enough.

But it is funny, because it's the first time, because I feel really bad about saying mean things in songs. You do. But I think we channeled something that day.

Where I was really mad.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. That was funny.

Yes. Can I go pee first?

And then I came up with So Close to What, which is exactly how I was feeling. I was driving towards nothing. I was like, this strive for perfection, this strive for the next thing, this strive... for just like finding like who you are is like a never ending loop.

Oh my god, Kate, tell me what's wrong.

Yes.

Oh, what I'm a therapist about?

Okay. You know what? Let me see.

There's a few things.

Like the feeling when your mom comes into town and she's like, I'm going to drive your car. And then she doesn't unlock the door and you're stuck like pulling on the door for like five minutes. That's really annoying.

I do, though. Like, a little bit. Like, it's... It's there.

Right. I'm trying to think of something that makes me angry.

But then one of the other worst things is when your parents come into town and then your car play connects to their phone.

And I felt like this in my career, like I was just on tour, like, you know, you make music, you, you feel proud of something and then there's, you don't feel satisfied enough with yourself and then you keep going, going and going. And it's like, when's the point that it like, when's the finish line? When's the point where you feel like you've like are, are fully satisfied.

Then you're like, turn off your Bluetooth. I'm like, I don't know how. And so she's like trying to turn off her Bluetooth and I'm like driving. It's just such a frustrating.

Yeah. It's just like chaos because all you want is music in your car. Like the last thing you want is for your Bluetooth. So it would not work.

In my car, with my speakers.

I always forget you can't drive. Are you ever going to get your license?

Why?

I don't know your skills. You could be good, like, silently good.

I feel like it is, too.

That would be your car.

Jake, this needs to happen.

Aw, that's perfect.

No.

Okay.

Right.

Did you learn how to drive a little bit?

Yeah. It is a little scary at first.

Yeah. Yeah. It is a little scary at first.

I failed my driver's test three times the first time. And then when I got to L.A., another three times.

Yes.

It's because it's this thing. It's this thing that happens when, like, I get nervous. Like, for example, like, when I'm going through customs, like... I'm always convinced that I'm, like, going to lie to them. What do you mean? Or, like, I'm doing something bad or I'm, like, a criminal. And I'm, like, going to, like, walk through and they're going to, like, catch me.

It's the same thing with driving. Like, I'm always, like, convinced, like, if it's just, like, a situation like that where it's under pressure, like, I will just do bad or lie. Right. Because it just really stresses me out.

I know. And that's what happens on my test. I just, like.

I can't do it.

Um, and so that was like kind of where the idea came from.

Yeah.

Like in what sense?

Right. Hmm. I feel like I feel like a lot has changed and like nothing has changed.

Yeah. Yeah. I feel like we've grown as people.

Right? No, we definitely have. Yeah. So, like, we definitely, we have.

I think so, too.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We have.

I think you're buffer than last time. Right. Yes. I think, I think you're, yeah, I think you're slimmer. I think you're buffer. I think you got arms now. Like that's changed.

I remember telling you. Yes. I feel like, I mean, Jake and I, obviously, we still work out together. Every day. Every day. But I like, you're like very specific points in the process where I'm like, okay, well, this might be happening. This might not be happening. I'll show him songs. Like, this is the next single. It's not the next single. I'll be like, so it's just, it's funny.

Oh, okay.

Right.

Yeah, I was a bit more apprehensive.

True. You know what? Okay, then I'm going to give a real answer for you. I feel like you are way better at dealing with your business. Like I feel like you've become quite the businessman. Like you know your shit. You know what I mean? Yes, I do. You've built quite the, like, enterprise. Like, you've, like, your start, like, it's pretty impressive.

And also a year ago, like, you were just starting your podcast. You're like, maybe I should get outside of TikTok. Maybe I should whatever.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Me and Jake just gassing each other up for one hour. Sometimes we need it. We do.

Cheers again.

I'm so proud of you. Thank you.

Is she developing feelings?

What are you going to prescribe?

If I cut you off, it just means I care.

Right.

Oh, she said she's scared. She said, she said.

Yes, exactly, Ashley. That's what I'm saying.

That's what I'm saying. Yeah, you know what? Yeah, that's sweet. I think, actually, no. No? Well, she's asking if she should, like, kick him out or not.

Yeah, maybe some space. Make him, like, miss you for a second, and then pull him back in if you're developing feelings.

Yeah.

Wait, so you guys are going to like ski down a hill?

Hello, Jake. How's New York treating you? Your place okay in LA? Hey, hey. Jake. Hey, hey. Sorry you messaged me during a crazy time, but I'm back. How have you been? All good. Been good. Are you coming to Aspen at any point this season? I am. You know what? I actually am. In two weekends. Okay, that's brilliant news. Let's do ski, do drinks. Are you coming with friends? Okay, he's into you.

Message me close to the top and I'll plan something. Perfect. Work, Jake. Right? No, it's good. It's going to be fun. You guys are going to have a great time.

Aw, that's sweet.

Really? I was going to say the opposite.

But, yeah, I think... I was going to say focus on school. Don't worry about a girlfriend.

That was back in August or something.

Yeah.

Did you guys talk?

That's crazy you remember that.

Okay, so you say focus on a girlfriend. I say focus on school.

So what do we beat in the middle? Is there a song called Balance?

No. Okay.

Pilates is great for you.

Well, that's the thing. It feels quick, but also I've been writing all year. Even when I sent you Greenlight, it was a totally different album.

Yeah, it feels like you're, like, doing something.

Yeah, it's, like, the toning of your body. I would say get into it. It's not that hard.

Yes, it's a little therapeutic. It's very therapeutic. It's, like, nice. You're, like, working out. You're stretching. I think it's really good for you.

My favorite... My best body is when I'm doing a lot of Pilates. Yeah. In my opinion.

It is hard.

Me completely. I'm like, it's not that hard. It's hard.

You have. I have. But I think that's also your shit. Like you like that.