Thomas Sipp

I realized, you know, at that point, that's pretty likely that there's going to be a deal and that it's going to be one that the attorneys don't like. And, you know, within hours, I think, we again find out from the news and from, you know, President Trump's, yeah, I think it's like true social, yeah, that there is this agreement that And then we hear from the firm.

I realized, you know, at that point, that's pretty likely that there's going to be a deal and that it's going to be one that the attorneys don't like. And, you know, within hours, I think, we again find out from the news and from, you know, President Trump's, yeah, I think it's like true social, yeah, that there is this agreement that And then we hear from the firm.

I just want to summarize what is in this deal that Skadden reached with President Trump.

I just want to summarize what is in this deal that Skadden reached with President Trump.

Personally, I felt ashamed to work at Skadden. And that's such a new experience because of how prestigious a law firm is. And then suddenly, in the blink of an eye, in just a few days, hours even, my whole view of the firm has been completely tainted.

Personally, I felt ashamed to work at Skadden. And that's such a new experience because of how prestigious a law firm is. And then suddenly, in the blink of an eye, in just a few days, hours even, my whole view of the firm has been completely tainted.

You know, it's a mix of things. This is... giving the president a PR win after being bullied. So it seems like I'm working at a firm that isn't as high caliber as it said it was. But more importantly than that, so many lawyers agree that what the president is doing is wrong.

You know, it's a mix of things. This is... giving the president a PR win after being bullied. So it seems like I'm working at a firm that isn't as high caliber as it said it was. But more importantly than that, so many lawyers agree that what the president is doing is wrong.

trying to punish his enemies and then coerce any law firm who he perceives as an enemy to either himself or to his circle from being able to represent clients who might be against them. This is happening in a much bigger political climate where there's fear spreading. When a judge makes a decision that goes against the president, there shouldn't be politicians calling for their impeachment.

trying to punish his enemies and then coerce any law firm who he perceives as an enemy to either himself or to his circle from being able to represent clients who might be against them. This is happening in a much bigger political climate where there's fear spreading. When a judge makes a decision that goes against the president, there shouldn't be politicians calling for their impeachment.

That's what's happening. This is a threat to our constitutional fabric, to our democracy, to our civil liberties. People should be able to be represented by their lawyers freely. Judges should be able to make decisions, even if it goes against the president. And to see Skadden be complicit to aid this attack, I was so ashamed to work there.

That's what's happening. This is a threat to our constitutional fabric, to our democracy, to our civil liberties. People should be able to be represented by their lawyers freely. Judges should be able to make decisions, even if it goes against the president. And to see Skadden be complicit to aid this attack, I was so ashamed to work there.

So on Sunday night, I start actually just writing down notes and really my questions. Some of them are practical, like how is this going to be enforced? What will it actually look like?

So on Sunday night, I start actually just writing down notes and really my questions. Some of them are practical, like how is this going to be enforced? What will it actually look like?

Right, what do these words mean? And a lot of the questions I started thinking about and finding answers, and so the questions became statements. And I realized what I had written was a draft of a resignation letter.

Right, what do these words mean? And a lot of the questions I started thinking about and finding answers, and so the questions became statements. And I realized what I had written was a draft of a resignation letter.

No. And Monday comes around and I have some conversations, you know, in the office with other attorneys and my friends and, you know, trusted mentors and colleagues. I just want to, you know, hear what people had to say and think, and everyone's distraught.

No. And Monday comes around and I have some conversations, you know, in the office with other attorneys and my friends and, you know, trusted mentors and colleagues. I just want to, you know, hear what people had to say and think, and everyone's distraught.

Yeah, of course. Dear colleagues and friends, I'm writing to let you know that I'm leaving this firm. There was a time when my employment here was so unlikely. For much of my early childhood, I was not a good student. I struggled to focus in class and take anything seriously. But even then, there was one subject I loved, history.

Yeah, of course. Dear colleagues and friends, I'm writing to let you know that I'm leaving this firm. There was a time when my employment here was so unlikely. For much of my early childhood, I was not a good student. I struggled to focus in class and take anything seriously. But even then, there was one subject I loved, history.

I thought it was so wonderful to learn about all that came before me, about the triumphs and tragedies, about the moments of individual bravery and collective complacency. I would often imagine myself faced with the same dilemmas. What would I do if I was there? Would I do the right thing? It always felt like there was no way to know.

I thought it was so wonderful to learn about all that came before me, about the triumphs and tragedies, about the moments of individual bravery and collective complacency. I would often imagine myself faced with the same dilemmas. What would I do if I was there? Would I do the right thing? It always felt like there was no way to know.

I believe, as I know many of you do, that what the current presidential administration is doing is wrong. That we are sliding into an autocracy where those in power are above the rule of law. Skadden's agreement with the Trump administration sent our country deeper down this descent. And then I finish, Skadden is on the wrong side of history.

I believe, as I know many of you do, that what the current presidential administration is doing is wrong. That we are sliding into an autocracy where those in power are above the rule of law. Skadden's agreement with the Trump administration sent our country deeper down this descent. And then I finish, Skadden is on the wrong side of history.

I could no longer stay knowing that someday I would have to explain why I stayed.

I could no longer stay knowing that someday I would have to explain why I stayed.

If you heard my breath, it felt like that. Maybe 100 times more though, because I knew that, you know, that was a pivotal moment in my life. Maybe just as pivotal as coming to the United States in the first place. If I might add, I grew up with two sisters, a twin sister and a younger sister.

If you heard my breath, it felt like that. Maybe 100 times more though, because I knew that, you know, that was a pivotal moment in my life. Maybe just as pivotal as coming to the United States in the first place. If I might add, I grew up with two sisters, a twin sister and a younger sister.

And my parents asked us back in Japan whether we wanted to move to the United States so that we can learn English. Actually, there was a reason why. And I remember just thinking, like, I was scared. I don't speak English. But I was the one from my sisters who said, I think we should. And my parents let us choose, you know, and it felt like that too.

And my parents asked us back in Japan whether we wanted to move to the United States so that we can learn English. Actually, there was a reason why. And I remember just thinking, like, I was scared. I don't speak English. But I was the one from my sisters who said, I think we should. And my parents let us choose, you know, and it felt like that too.

I knew that I was closing some doors and, you know, a place like Skadden, like for that 10-year-old kid, he had no idea. where he might end up. And I'm grateful for that experience. I think it's only possible in a country like the United States. And I really, really believe in it. I know not everyone can make this decision, including even those in my law firm.

I knew that I was closing some doors and, you know, a place like Skadden, like for that 10-year-old kid, he had no idea. where he might end up. And I'm grateful for that experience. I think it's only possible in a country like the United States. And I really, really believe in it. I know not everyone can make this decision, including even those in my law firm.

There are people who have families who depend on their income, who can't just quit on a dime like I did without a job lined up. There are people who are here at the law firm on work visas because they're not United States citizens. And those people can't really speak out because of this climate of intimidation. Everyone has their own reasons, I think.

There are people who have families who depend on their income, who can't just quit on a dime like I did without a job lined up. There are people who are here at the law firm on work visas because they're not United States citizens. And those people can't really speak out because of this climate of intimidation. Everyone has their own reasons, I think.

And I just want to say thank you to all the people who read my resignation letter.

And I just want to say thank you to all the people who read my resignation letter.

Right. Well, and I knew that in putting in writing, there was a risk. But, you know, I sent it to my immediate colleagues, and then it was posted online the following day.

Right. Well, and I knew that in putting in writing, there was a risk. But, you know, I sent it to my immediate colleagues, and then it was posted online the following day.

Yeah. And I was finally able to talk to my mother after resigning, telling her that I quit because I hadn't talked to her about my thoughts since it all happened so fast. And she's back in Japan with the rest of my family. And I told her I quit. And she's like, do you have another job? And I was like, no, mom, you don't understand. This is in the news.

Yeah. And I was finally able to talk to my mother after resigning, telling her that I quit because I hadn't talked to her about my thoughts since it all happened so fast. And she's back in Japan with the rest of my family. And I told her I quit. And she's like, do you have another job? And I was like, no, mom, you don't understand. This is in the news.

And I quit because of what's going on in America right now.

And I quit because of what's going on in America right now.

Yeah. And she sort of did a process at first. And then she started to cry. She realized what's happening. And she asked me to come back to Japan. I said, no, I can't. And I won't. I made this decision because I believe that there's still hope. And I owe it to America, I think, to stay here and speak out on this issue.

Yeah. And she sort of did a process at first. And then she started to cry. She realized what's happening. And she asked me to come back to Japan. I said, no, I can't. And I won't. I made this decision because I believe that there's still hope. And I owe it to America, I think, to stay here and speak out on this issue.

I just don't think that's true. These law firms are agreeing to these deals when they know that there's no legal basis for any threatened executive order. And to the extent that these firms feel an existential threat to the firm itself,

I just don't think that's true. These law firms are agreeing to these deals when they know that there's no legal basis for any threatened executive order. And to the extent that these firms feel an existential threat to the firm itself,

By capitulating, they're aiding this existential threat against the profession, the independence of the judiciary, and our democracy and everyone who depends on it.

By capitulating, they're aiding this existential threat against the profession, the independence of the judiciary, and our democracy and everyone who depends on it.

Yes. In short. Yes. I think all of these firms that are making these deals and defecting, they're worried about losing clients to a peer firm that's connected to the administration already. And... These firms are betting on the president to succeed, right, from a PR perspective, because they can say, look, it was a smart deal.

Yes. In short. Yes. I think all of these firms that are making these deals and defecting, they're worried about losing clients to a peer firm that's connected to the administration already. And... These firms are betting on the president to succeed, right, from a PR perspective, because they can say, look, it was a smart deal.

But the smart deal is with this president who is trying to actively undermine our profession and our democracy. And, you know, for the firm to say, hey, it doesn't change who we are, I think it fundamentally does.

But the smart deal is with this president who is trying to actively undermine our profession and our democracy. And, you know, for the firm to say, hey, it doesn't change who we are, I think it fundamentally does.

I really appreciate it.

I really appreciate it.

Confident because of what so many people, strangers reaching out to me have said to me, which is that they're also scared. Everyone is scared. But if everyone could stand up and speak up about this, then we can turn this back. I think we can save it still.

Confident because of what so many people, strangers reaching out to me have said to me, which is that they're also scared. Everyone is scared. But if everyone could stand up and speak up about this, then we can turn this back. I think we can save it still.

Well, of course I'm worried, I guess. I'm putting my career on the line for this, and I knew that going into this. I have student loans. I have a single mom who, you know. And you just publicly picked a little bit of a fight with the president. That's right.

Well, of course I'm worried, I guess. I'm putting my career on the line for this, and I knew that going into this. I have student loans. I have a single mom who, you know. And you just publicly picked a little bit of a fight with the president. That's right.

Right. And that's part of the decision I made when I was in law school, finding a job, my first job. And, you know, to answer your ultimate question, No, I don't regret becoming a lawyer and going to law school. It's a wonderful education. You know, even my time at Skadden, I learned so much. And it's equipping me with skills, I think, to advocate for what I believe in and for others as well.

Right. And that's part of the decision I made when I was in law school, finding a job, my first job. And, you know, to answer your ultimate question, No, I don't regret becoming a lawyer and going to law school. It's a wonderful education. You know, even my time at Skadden, I learned so much. And it's equipping me with skills, I think, to advocate for what I believe in and for others as well.

And that's what lawyers do.

And that's what lawyers do.

Thank you.

Thank you.

So going all the way to the start, I was born in Japan to an American father and a Japanese mother. And my family moved to the United States when I was 10. My parents separated shortly after. And so, you know, I was learning English in middle school and also learning about what it means to be an American. Because before that I was really, you know, just like a native Japanese kid.

So going all the way to the start, I was born in Japan to an American father and a Japanese mother. And my family moved to the United States when I was 10. My parents separated shortly after. And so, you know, I was learning English in middle school and also learning about what it means to be an American. Because before that I was really, you know, just like a native Japanese kid.

And I was through that experience, including of suddenly becoming this sort of racial minority because I'm mixed race and coming to understand the social fabric that's kind of unique to the United States, especially compared to a relatively homogenous country like Japan.

And I was through that experience, including of suddenly becoming this sort of racial minority because I'm mixed race and coming to understand the social fabric that's kind of unique to the United States, especially compared to a relatively homogenous country like Japan.

And, you know, growing up with my single mom who doesn't speak fluent English and getting all those sort of experiences, I think, started to put me on the path that I'm on now.

And, you know, growing up with my single mom who doesn't speak fluent English and getting all those sort of experiences, I think, started to put me on the path that I'm on now.

Yeah. I mean, there were difficult days for sure. I think even though this week has been very difficult for me, I still look back and think of some of the days that I experienced as a kid in middle school. You know, whether it's not being able to make friends, being made fun of for my accent and stuff like that, that really, I think, started to form

Yeah. I mean, there were difficult days for sure. I think even though this week has been very difficult for me, I still look back and think of some of the days that I experienced as a kid in middle school. You know, whether it's not being able to make friends, being made fun of for my accent and stuff like that, that really, I think, started to form

like that sense of injustice that I think fuels me sometimes, right?

like that sense of injustice that I think fuels me sometimes, right?

I think there was a time when I was in math class. And, you know, math is the same, so I could answer the questions. And I think one of the answers was 33. And you could probably tell that I paused even before I said it. And it's because back then I would have pronounced it differently because I couldn't pronounce T-H. The whole class laughed, even though it's the right answer.

I think there was a time when I was in math class. And, you know, math is the same, so I could answer the questions. And I think one of the answers was 33. And you could probably tell that I paused even before I said it. And it's because back then I would have pronounced it differently because I couldn't pronounce T-H. The whole class laughed, even though it's the right answer.

But then I would go home, and I would close my door, put my book bag down, and just practice words that I couldn't pronounce, like 33. I'd just say it over and over and over again. Other words like world. These basic words that come up in everyday dialogue. And that was part of my experience. But at the same time, I moved to the United States in 2008, during that election.

But then I would go home, and I would close my door, put my book bag down, and just practice words that I couldn't pronounce, like 33. I'd just say it over and over and over again. Other words like world. These basic words that come up in everyday dialogue. And that was part of my experience. But at the same time, I moved to the United States in 2008, during that election.

And there's all this conversation in America about... hopefulness, and about this being a country where there's a place for anyone, right? And so I was also absorbing that as well.

And there's all this conversation in America about... hopefulness, and about this being a country where there's a place for anyone, right? And so I was also absorbing that as well.

And he talks about, and this is from his 2004 DNC speech, but it's one of my favorites. And he talks about being like a skinny kid with a funny name. I remember other parts of the speech too, because it just sticks with you. In high school, I joined a debate team to practice public speaking, try to get over that fear. That was part of also, I think, my path to being a lawyer.

And he talks about, and this is from his 2004 DNC speech, but it's one of my favorites. And he talks about being like a skinny kid with a funny name. I remember other parts of the speech too, because it just sticks with you. In high school, I joined a debate team to practice public speaking, try to get over that fear. That was part of also, I think, my path to being a lawyer.

And in college, I was studying political science at the University of Texas. And I had this wonderful opportunity to be an intern at the United States Senate.

And in college, I was studying political science at the University of Texas. And I had this wonderful opportunity to be an intern at the United States Senate.

This was probably basically like a decade after I moved here. to the United States, and suddenly I'm walking through the halls of Congress with my little yellow Senate intern badge, and running into senators and congressmen, getting to sit in on important hearings. And it was during that time that I really decided I want to be a part of this project here in the United States.

This was probably basically like a decade after I moved here. to the United States, and suddenly I'm walking through the halls of Congress with my little yellow Senate intern badge, and running into senators and congressmen, getting to sit in on important hearings. And it was during that time that I really decided I want to be a part of this project here in the United States.

It's, you know, a march towards justice, the betterment of everyone. I think there are these core principles that are unique to the United States in many ways. You know, if it's not unique, then it's something that the United States really has the potential, maybe more than any other country on earth, to embody, which is that this is a place where anyone can come, work hard, and be an American.

It's, you know, a march towards justice, the betterment of everyone. I think there are these core principles that are unique to the United States in many ways. You know, if it's not unique, then it's something that the United States really has the potential, maybe more than any other country on earth, to embody, which is that this is a place where anyone can come, work hard, and be an American.

Yeah. I'm not blind to the errors in the past, and I know that the United States has not been and still is not a perfect country. But I really still believe that You know, when the United States is doing the right things, the whole world is a better place because of it.

Yeah. I'm not blind to the errors in the past, and I know that the United States has not been and still is not a perfect country. But I really still believe that You know, when the United States is doing the right things, the whole world is a better place because of it.

Well, so picking back up where, you know, I was a Senate intern in D.C. I'm looking around and seeing that a lot of the people with the cool jobs in D.C. tend to have law degrees and, you know, where they're actively practicing the law. So I figured it was the next best step afterward. And so I go to law school straight out of college. I get into a lot of law schools and I'm balancing offers.

Well, so picking back up where, you know, I was a Senate intern in D.C. I'm looking around and seeing that a lot of the people with the cool jobs in D.C. tend to have law degrees and, you know, where they're actively practicing the law. So I figured it was the next best step afterward. And so I go to law school straight out of college. I get into a lot of law schools and I'm balancing offers.

The exercise I love incoming law students have to do when they're admitted is balance the prestige of the law school versus how much money they're offering you. And I chose Columbia Law School because they gave me a pretty good balance. And like many other law students, I cover the balance with student loans. And that starts to take us to the next steps.

The exercise I love incoming law students have to do when they're admitted is balance the prestige of the law school versus how much money they're offering you. And I chose Columbia Law School because they gave me a pretty good balance. And like many other law students, I cover the balance with student loans. And that starts to take us to the next steps.

As a 22-year-old trying to pay off a six-figure debt, I was drawn toward a higher salary, among other things. All the law firms, the big law firms, almost by definition pay the same scale salary.

As a 22-year-old trying to pay off a six-figure debt, I was drawn toward a higher salary, among other things. All the law firms, the big law firms, almost by definition pay the same scale salary.

So the way that these law firms distinguish themselves from each other oftentimes is in things like how their pro bono program operates, how their billable hours requirement operates, how invested they are into diversity initiatives, and how actively their affinity groups recruit on law schools. And I chose Skadden because it had the prestige.

So the way that these law firms distinguish themselves from each other oftentimes is in things like how their pro bono program operates, how their billable hours requirement operates, how invested they are into diversity initiatives, and how actively their affinity groups recruit on law schools. And I chose Skadden because it had the prestige.

Yes.

Yes.

That's right. And Skadden really advertised two things. Its pro bono program and its diversity initiatives. With regard to the pro bono programs, Skadden had a rule, basically, that said that you can count an unlimited number of your pro bono hours towards your billable hours requirement. And the billable hours kind of represents two things.

That's right. And Skadden really advertised two things. Its pro bono program and its diversity initiatives. With regard to the pro bono programs, Skadden had a rule, basically, that said that you can count an unlimited number of your pro bono hours towards your billable hours requirement. And the billable hours kind of represents two things.

If you meet the requirement, you get a bonus at the end of the year. So that's more money. And then Skadden you're also in good standing, right? You're doing enough work. You know, you're meeting your hours. And it was a big deal that Skadden does that because not many other firms do.

If you meet the requirement, you get a bonus at the end of the year. So that's more money. And then Skadden you're also in good standing, right? You're doing enough work. You know, you're meeting your hours. And it was a big deal that Skadden does that because not many other firms do.

Yeah, exactly. And I worked on, I'm just going to speak broadly on this, but matters related to unhoused people, immigration, and police misconduct.

Yeah, exactly. And I worked on, I'm just going to speak broadly on this, but matters related to unhoused people, immigration, and police misconduct.

Yeah, that's right. I decided to pay a little bit more in rent for a slightly worse apartment, just so I can be close to the office. How close? I'm talking like a five-minute walk.

Yeah, that's right. I decided to pay a little bit more in rent for a slightly worse apartment, just so I can be close to the office. How close? I'm talking like a five-minute walk.

Yeah. Obviously, at a big law firm like this, it's challenging work. It's long hours, high-pressure environment. You're closely scrutinizing the grammar and all of your sentences that you write, even in internal emails and all that stuff, because it it can affect your reputation and your credibility.

Yeah. Obviously, at a big law firm like this, it's challenging work. It's long hours, high-pressure environment. You're closely scrutinizing the grammar and all of your sentences that you write, even in internal emails and all that stuff, because it it can affect your reputation and your credibility.

But at the same time, in those long hours and in this high-pressure environment, you make friends really quickly. And there are great mentors out there, too, who I learned from. So actually, I liked going into work every day. If you ask people who I worked with, I'm sure they'd tell you I was often there very early and late.

But at the same time, in those long hours and in this high-pressure environment, you make friends really quickly. And there are great mentors out there, too, who I learned from. So actually, I liked going into work every day. If you ask people who I worked with, I'm sure they'd tell you I was often there very early and late.

But that's partly because I just want to say good morning and good night to everyone in my hallway.

But that's partly because I just want to say good morning and good night to everyone in my hallway.

So on March 17th, when the EEOC, which stands for the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, basically published this letter listing 20 law firms, including my own, saying that these law firms are essentially under investigation for their practices related to diversity.

So on March 17th, when the EEOC, which stands for the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, basically published this letter listing 20 law firms, including my own, saying that these law firms are essentially under investigation for their practices related to diversity.

Right. And I think it was the following weekend, on that Sunday in the afternoon, one of my friends from the firm sends me this tweet. Basically, it's a thread posted by Dinesh D'Souza. The right-wing activist. The right-wing activist. Basically discussing how Skadden is representing a client against him related to this widely debunked conspiracy theory documentary about the 2020 election.

Right. And I think it was the following weekend, on that Sunday in the afternoon, one of my friends from the firm sends me this tweet. Basically, it's a thread posted by Dinesh D'Souza. The right-wing activist. The right-wing activist. Basically discussing how Skadden is representing a client against him related to this widely debunked conspiracy theory documentary about the 2020 election.

Yes. And Elon Musk tweets on that thread saying something along the lines of, you know, Skadden, this needs to stop. So there's a letter and then there's this tweet. And while all this is happening, there are other law firms that are dealing with similar things, including Perkins Coie, who was hit with a executive order earlier in the month.

Yes. And Elon Musk tweets on that thread saying something along the lines of, you know, Skadden, this needs to stop. So there's a letter and then there's this tweet. And while all this is happening, there are other law firms that are dealing with similar things, including Perkins Coie, who was hit with a executive order earlier in the month.

Right, yeah. And Thursday comes around, my friend again sends me an article that the New York Times published, basically stating that Skadden was in talks with the administration to avert an executive order. And this was after Paul Weiss, which is essentially a peer firm, made a deal, including for $40 million pro bono commitment to causes that the president agrees with.

Right, yeah. And Thursday comes around, my friend again sends me an article that the New York Times published, basically stating that Skadden was in talks with the administration to avert an executive order. And this was after Paul Weiss, which is essentially a peer firm, made a deal, including for $40 million pro bono commitment to causes that the president agrees with.

We're not necessarily surprised, but we're still shocked.

We're not necessarily surprised, but we're still shocked.

And during that preceding week, there had been pockets of the law firm trying to organize some sort of request for a response, nothing publicly, but at least internally seeking clarity and hoping to provide at least some input into what the attorneys who actually worked there feel about what's going on and how so many of us believe that it's unconstitutional.

And during that preceding week, there had been pockets of the law firm trying to organize some sort of request for a response, nothing publicly, but at least internally seeking clarity and hoping to provide at least some input into what the attorneys who actually worked there feel about what's going on and how so many of us believe that it's unconstitutional.

Right.

Right.

Yes. During this month, there are law firms that are fighting back, right? There are law firms that take on representation of the law firms being targeted, right? Which puts them at risk, but they're willing to say, hey, we know what's right. And we see that that's being celebrated within the legal community. And this is not a difficult legal question.

Yes. During this month, there are law firms that are fighting back, right? There are law firms that take on representation of the law firms being targeted, right? Which puts them at risk, but they're willing to say, hey, we know what's right. And we see that that's being celebrated within the legal community. And this is not a difficult legal question.

There's no legal basis for what the president's doing. It's complete abuse of power. And so we want our firm to stand up for that. And a lot of associates, I think even partners, would feel betrayed by an agreement. So that's what we're trying to express. But we're feeling like things are moving really fast and we felt voiceless.

There's no legal basis for what the president's doing. It's complete abuse of power. And so we want our firm to stand up for that. And a lot of associates, I think even partners, would feel betrayed by an agreement. So that's what we're trying to express. But we're feeling like things are moving really fast and we felt voiceless.

So then this Friday, there was this email thread that got around to parts of the firm. And the discussion is basically, should attorneys still have access to the firm-wide distribution lists, which is basically these mailing lists that allow attorneys to ask questions broadly to the rest of the firm or communicate broadly. And so when I see that,

So then this Friday, there was this email thread that got around to parts of the firm. And the discussion is basically, should attorneys still have access to the firm-wide distribution lists, which is basically these mailing lists that allow attorneys to ask questions broadly to the rest of the firm or communicate broadly. And so when I see that,