Victor Vescovo

Except for all the stuff that's in it.

Except for all the stuff that's in it.

Most of the ocean is unexplored. Is the stuff that we've mostly mapped and explored just near the United States and Europe? Because is it just easier for us to access that stuff?

Most of the ocean is unexplored. Is the stuff that we've mostly mapped and explored just near the United States and Europe? Because is it just easier for us to access that stuff?

Right. Okay.

Right. Okay.

Yeah. Is that really what it's called?

Yeah. Is that really what it's called?

So on the ship, I'm just trying to get my head around this. On the ship, you have terrible weather. You're stuck on the boat and you're just waiting for like one day that you can go down and do this. But the rest of the entire month, you're like looking out the window and going, well, today is not the day.

So on the ship, I'm just trying to get my head around this. On the ship, you have terrible weather. You're stuck on the boat and you're just waiting for like one day that you can go down and do this. But the rest of the entire month, you're like looking out the window and going, well, today is not the day.

And then you read and eat the same stuff with the same people and get on each other's nerves for like the next 29 days.

And then you read and eat the same stuff with the same people and get on each other's nerves for like the next 29 days.

I'd love to hear a little bit about your background because that's what really kind of got me. Susan Casey, who introduced us, was like, oh, he was in the military and then he did this thing and then he started a hedge fund and then he started this other thing and they went to all the mountains, they went to the bottom of the ocean.

I'd love to hear a little bit about your background because that's what really kind of got me. Susan Casey, who introduced us, was like, oh, he was in the military and then he did this thing and then he started a hedge fund and then he started this other thing and they went to all the mountains, they went to the bottom of the ocean.

Yeah, I can only imagine if you get one or two people that don't jibe, you're just like, I'm going to throw this guy off the boat.

Yeah, I can only imagine if you get one or two people that don't jibe, you're just like, I'm going to throw this guy off the boat.

Yeah, it actually makes a lot of sense. Of course, we've all seen businesses where there's dysfunctional teams, right?

Yeah, it actually makes a lot of sense. Of course, we've all seen businesses where there's dysfunctional teams, right?

Gosh, you mentioned waiting for a hole in the weather. Does that ever happen like at night? Like, okay, the night's going to be the calmest part or is it too dangerous to go down at night?

Gosh, you mentioned waiting for a hole in the weather. Does that ever happen like at night? Like, okay, the night's going to be the calmest part or is it too dangerous to go down at night?

I was like, is this one person or did I, I had to rewind the book.

I was like, is this one person or did I, I had to rewind the book.

Oh.

Oh.

Yeah. I mean, that just seems, it already seems terrifying in many ways. It's like, why make it harder? But if the only hole in the weather is at 4 p.m., it's like, well, all right. You do what you need to do.

Yeah. I mean, that just seems, it already seems terrifying in many ways. It's like, why make it harder? But if the only hole in the weather is at 4 p.m., it's like, well, all right. You do what you need to do.

That makes sense. Right. You don't want somebody who's sort of dozing off if they're supposed to stop that tension cable at a certain point or like is too tired to have full mental faculty.

That makes sense. Right. You don't want somebody who's sort of dozing off if they're supposed to stop that tension cable at a certain point or like is too tired to have full mental faculty.

Just the reason it was delayed is he was sleeping soundly. No, he's been up the whole time. Yeah. He's been drinking coffee since 5. Right. Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned in the book that something called crush depth limited humanity for a while. What is crush depth?

Just the reason it was delayed is he was sleeping soundly. No, he's been up the whole time. Yeah. He's been drinking coffee since 5. Right. Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned in the book that something called crush depth limited humanity for a while. What is crush depth?

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Yeah, that was really horrible.

Yeah, that was really horrible.

We're definitely going to get into that because some of the stories about testing this, I was just like, that's the test. Some of the like Soviet Union looking type stuff. Well, it was Russia. They were in Soviet Union, but yeah. But that thing was built, whatever. Well, we'll get there. We'll get there. Because I'm thinking that was not a modern facility, but I guess it doesn't matter.

We're definitely going to get into that because some of the stories about testing this, I was just like, that's the test. Some of the like Soviet Union looking type stuff. Well, it was Russia. They were in Soviet Union, but yeah. But that thing was built, whatever. Well, we'll get there. We'll get there. Because I'm thinking that was not a modern facility, but I guess it doesn't matter.

It sounds like the way they describe it in the book is you got this V tattoo with seven peaks and five depths.

It sounds like the way they describe it in the book is you got this V tattoo with seven peaks and five depths.

Yeah, this is definitely clipped right out of the book. For people who are wondering, you did not write the book. Someone else did. But it says, yeah, you got a V tattoo with seven peaks and five depths. So it was just like up and down. It's just wrong. I don't have a tattoo. I just thought like, oh, he got a tattoo. And then it was like, oh, I only thought about going to the tops.

Yeah, this is definitely clipped right out of the book. For people who are wondering, you did not write the book. Someone else did. But it says, yeah, you got a V tattoo with seven peaks and five depths. So it was just like up and down. It's just wrong. I don't have a tattoo. I just thought like, oh, he got a tattoo. And then it was like, oh, I only thought about going to the tops.

Now I got to go to the bottoms. It's like... No. Just an apocryphal story that sounded cool in the book. All right.

Now I got to go to the bottoms. It's like... No. Just an apocryphal story that sounded cool in the book. All right.

Oh, I see.

Oh, I see.

That's really interesting because, of course, I have questions like, I can't believe there was trash at the bottom, deepest part of the ocean.

That's really interesting because, of course, I have questions like, I can't believe there was trash at the bottom, deepest part of the ocean.

Okay.

Okay.

Right.

Right.

You can't really even point to the Danes on that one because they sell it everywhere, right? It could have been anybody. But we'll blame the Danish, whatever. Is it Danish or Dutch? I don't even know. I don't even know. I don't drink beer. We'll blame the Danish anyway. So your concentration, I know you worked at a consulting firm, but you got a degree in some sort of defense-related thing.

You can't really even point to the Danes on that one because they sell it everywhere, right? It could have been anybody. But we'll blame the Danish, whatever. Is it Danish or Dutch? I don't even know. I don't even know. I don't drink beer. We'll blame the Danish anyway. So your concentration, I know you worked at a consulting firm, but you got a degree in some sort of defense-related thing.

It sounded really complicated, like air power in Europe or whatever.

It sounded really complicated, like air power in Europe or whatever.

NATO. NATO, yeah.

NATO. NATO, yeah.

It's interesting because as a person who knows nothing about flying at all, you kind of think, oh, these machines are so advanced, the pilot just has to know the controls, but it's like not true at all.

It's interesting because as a person who knows nothing about flying at all, you kind of think, oh, these machines are so advanced, the pilot just has to know the controls, but it's like not true at all.

Really? Wow.

Really? Wow.

Right. So it's not the top gun dog fighting. Yeah.

Right. So it's not the top gun dog fighting. Yeah.

I am curious what, so AI would be like the best, theoretically the best pilot at some point, would be able to best the best human pilots at some point, and then that would decide everything.

I am curious what, so AI would be like the best, theoretically the best pilot at some point, would be able to best the best human pilots at some point, and then that would decide everything.

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You'll be in smart company where you belong. You can find the course at sixminutenetworking.com. All right, back to Victor Vescovo. especially with like drone technology where your G forces is zero to like whatever maximum that would kill a human in like one second.

You'll be in smart company where you belong. You can find the course at sixminutenetworking.com. All right, back to Victor Vescovo. especially with like drone technology where your G forces is zero to like whatever maximum that would kill a human in like one second.

But that little bit of hesitation can kill you. I would imagine an AI can be like, I need to get three feet above the water level to avoid this. And the human's like, ooh, can I do that? The AI's just like, well, whatever. It's going to work or it's not. And I'm a machine. I don't really care if I crash. Yeah.

But that little bit of hesitation can kill you. I would imagine an AI can be like, I need to get three feet above the water level to avoid this. And the human's like, ooh, can I do that? The AI's just like, well, whatever. It's going to work or it's not. And I'm a machine. I don't really care if I crash. Yeah.

Okay, done. Yeah, done. Yeah. Whereas the guy's like, okay. I do have kids at home. Well, I'll just try it.

Okay, done. Yeah, done. Yeah. Whereas the guy's like, okay. I do have kids at home. Well, I'll just try it.

Oh, that makes sense. That actually makes sense. They have interesting stories that now I'm questioning whether or not they're true. In the book, when you climbed a summit in Russia in, I think it was like 1991, and you get back to Moscow and you're like, that's not the flag that was on top of the building.

Oh, that makes sense. That actually makes sense. They have interesting stories that now I'm questioning whether or not they're true. In the book, when you climbed a summit in Russia in, I think it was like 1991, and you get back to Moscow and you're like, that's not the flag that was on top of the building.

You're lucky they weren't like, we need bargaining chips. Look at these three idiots that just walked into the airport.

You're lucky they weren't like, we need bargaining chips. Look at these three idiots that just walked into the airport.

You were on top of a mountain and the entire world changed overnight.

You were on top of a mountain and the entire world changed overnight.

I mean, it's changed here also, right? We were like, okay, so no more nuclear annihilation, maybe? Yeah. Right? Yeah, you never know. Yeah, TBD on that one. Yeah. You speak fluent Arabic or you didn't at one point?

I mean, it's changed here also, right? We were like, okay, so no more nuclear annihilation, maybe? Yeah. Right? Yeah, you never know. Yeah, TBD on that one. Yeah. You speak fluent Arabic or you didn't at one point?

Now it's too late, but I'm going to ask anyway. Is it Vescovo or Vescovo?

Now it's too late, but I'm going to ask anyway. Is it Vescovo or Vescovo?

I see. Because I was... I can't stop saying it one of those ways, but it depends which way you prefer because I'm going to write it down.

I see. Because I was... I can't stop saying it one of those ways, but it depends which way you prefer because I'm going to write it down.

I was like, do this at the front of the show and don't forget. I just immediately forgot. No worries. Have you ever been seriously injured doing any of this stuff? Oh, yeah.

I was like, do this at the front of the show and don't forget. I just immediately forgot. No worries. Have you ever been seriously injured doing any of this stuff? Oh, yeah.

It sounds like that was, man, walking up these mountains is really tiring. What's more expensive but involves less walking? Ah, the ocean.

It sounds like that was, man, walking up these mountains is really tiring. What's more expensive but involves less walking? Ah, the ocean.

Imagine hearing that.

Imagine hearing that.

In a storm while injured and not able to move.

In a storm while injured and not able to move.

Get new ones.

Get new ones.

I mean, you can't let the mountain win on that one. That would be a bummer.

I mean, you can't let the mountain win on that one. That would be a bummer.

Man, does being that close to death, does it bring life into stark reliefs or focus somehow?

Man, does being that close to death, does it bring life into stark reliefs or focus somehow?

I'm going to do this seven more times and then go in the ocean.

I'm going to do this seven more times and then go in the ocean.

And they don't care. They don't care. Yeah. It's hard for people who are like indoor kid-ish like myself to, you really have to realize like this, this is what a hostile environment is, right? It's not just like, oh, the earth doesn't care about you. It's like, no, no, no. It would rather you fall off the edge of this mountain and die. Right.

And they don't care. They don't care. Yeah. It's hard for people who are like indoor kid-ish like myself to, you really have to realize like this, this is what a hostile environment is, right? It's not just like, oh, the earth doesn't care about you. It's like, no, no, no. It would rather you fall off the edge of this mountain and die. Right.

I know you don't, or it says in the book, I have to preface everything with that now. It says in the book, you don't have any kids and you'd never married. I wonder if that makes it easier for you to risk your life because you don't have people who are like, oh, well, dad left us and then fell off a rock.

I know you don't, or it says in the book, I have to preface everything with that now. It says in the book, you don't have any kids and you'd never married. I wonder if that makes it easier for you to risk your life because you don't have people who are like, oh, well, dad left us and then fell off a rock.

Interesting, because it distracts you.

Interesting, because it distracts you.

I was wondering about that when I was reading about the submarine, the dives. It's like, if there's an emergency down there, you don't want to be with somebody who's like, oh my God, I never, my wife and kids, you're like, hey man, put the fire out in the electronics thing.

I was wondering about that when I was reading about the submarine, the dives. It's like, if there's an emergency down there, you don't want to be with somebody who's like, oh my God, I never, my wife and kids, you're like, hey man, put the fire out in the electronics thing.

Yeah. That you're responsible for. Right. That makes sense. I mean, I can't do stuff like this. Not that I was ever cutsy enough to do stuff like this in the first place, but I've got two little kids and I would, my wife's like, you can't go to this dangerous country right now. Like what happens if you get, if you die? Right.

Yeah. That you're responsible for. Right. That makes sense. I mean, I can't do stuff like this. Not that I was ever cutsy enough to do stuff like this in the first place, but I've got two little kids and I would, my wife's like, you can't go to this dangerous country right now. Like what happens if you get, if you die? Right.

Yeah, it's unfair. It's selfish. I guess I'm calling those people who climb dangerous mountains with four kids a little bit selfish. I mean, they probably have a compulsive thing, and they're also delusionally confident that they won't die, probably.

Yeah, it's unfair. It's selfish. I guess I'm calling those people who climb dangerous mountains with four kids a little bit selfish. I mean, they probably have a compulsive thing, and they're also delusionally confident that they won't die, probably.

Yeah, there's not enough money in the world, yeah.

Yeah, there's not enough money in the world, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I think I get why people don't change their risk profile. It's kind of like, I don't want to be old yet. I don't want to be out of the game yet.

Yeah. Yeah. I think I get why people don't change their risk profile. It's kind of like, I don't want to be old yet. I don't want to be out of the game yet.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's people working on that right here in Silicon Valley. Good luck with that. It's creepy when you're siphoning your son's blood into your body every day. That freaks me out.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's people working on that right here in Silicon Valley. Good luck with that. It's creepy when you're siphoning your son's blood into your body every day. That freaks me out.

So if I croak, Jen can text me about picking up a target.

So if I croak, Jen can text me about picking up a target.

From beyond.

From beyond.

Yes.

Yes.

Well, especially with, I've got 2000 hours of my voice out there. It would be easy for somebody to do that.

Well, especially with, I've got 2000 hours of my voice out there. It would be easy for somebody to do that.

Yeah. But it will be That seems like something you shouldn't use for a long period of time. Like a drug or anything else, right? Right. It's like maybe it eases you through a grief period of somebody suddenly dying, but it also has shades of the movie Psycho where he's talking to his mother, but it turns out to be a corpse in the basement in a rocking chair.

Yeah. But it will be That seems like something you shouldn't use for a long period of time. Like a drug or anything else, right? Right. It's like maybe it eases you through a grief period of somebody suddenly dying, but it also has shades of the movie Psycho where he's talking to his mother, but it turns out to be a corpse in the basement in a rocking chair.

I don't know. Technology always cuts both ways. You might be onto something. Yes, exactly. This is going to sound like I'm belittling your accomplishments, and I swear I'm not doing that. But as I sit here in my living room, I would have thought by 2014, when you started diving to the bottom of these trenches, that we had done that already.

I don't know. Technology always cuts both ways. You might be onto something. Yes, exactly. This is going to sound like I'm belittling your accomplishments, and I swear I'm not doing that. But as I sit here in my living room, I would have thought by 2014, when you started diving to the bottom of these trenches, that we had done that already.

I would imagine it's terrifying. I have friends who go, don't worry about me. I'm going to Kilimanjaro. It's really easy. It's mostly walking. And then one of my friends passed away because a rock probably kicked off by a mountain goat just hit him in the head. And that was it.

I would imagine it's terrifying. I have friends who go, don't worry about me. I'm going to Kilimanjaro. It's really easy. It's mostly walking. And then one of my friends passed away because a rock probably kicked off by a mountain goat just hit him in the head. And that was it.

The last thing you want to do is find out that you went to the second deepest part.

The last thing you want to do is find out that you went to the second deepest part.

Remember that world record we gave you? Give me that shit back.

Remember that world record we gave you? Give me that shit back.

And he was like hiking. I mean, this is not he was not scaling.

And he was like hiking. I mean, this is not he was not scaling.

Got it. So there's not like a super deep spot hiding somewhere. Unless it's under ice. Is that possible?

Got it. So there's not like a super deep spot hiding somewhere. Unless it's under ice. Is that possible?

Okay. Yeah, I was thinking like under Antarctica. Oh, look, this one over here is just massively deep. No. Covered by glaciers. Oh. I heard in the beginning you bought an existing sub instead of building one. No, I didn't buy it. So that is also not true.

Okay. Yeah, I was thinking like under Antarctica. Oh, look, this one over here is just massively deep. No. Covered by glaciers. Oh. I heard in the beginning you bought an existing sub instead of building one. No, I didn't buy it. So that is also not true.

Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker through long form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, spies, CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, performers, even the occasional music mogul, tech luminary, special operator, or real life pirate.

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What is the market like for secondhand submarines that can go that deep? Let's just say it's really, really thin. I would imagine you send them an email like, I'm thinking about buying that submarine, and they're like, delete. Who's this spammer?

What is the market like for secondhand submarines that can go that deep? Let's just say it's really, really thin. I would imagine you send them an email like, I'm thinking about buying that submarine, and they're like, delete. Who's this spammer?

We need to find somebody who has deep pockets and will just let us recklessly spend all of his money.

We need to find somebody who has deep pockets and will just let us recklessly spend all of his money.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

barely barely yeah but i gotta say the submarine world really does seem like it's full of of characters like guys who hunt for treasure guys who've lived all over the world and grew up all over the world people who are child prodigies people who grow up to build one-of-a-kind unique devices that most of us can only dream of and also just like some crazy people i think maybe yeah what you described pretty much described my team for five years

barely barely yeah but i gotta say the submarine world really does seem like it's full of of characters like guys who hunt for treasure guys who've lived all over the world and grew up all over the world people who are child prodigies people who grow up to build one-of-a-kind unique devices that most of us can only dream of and also just like some crazy people i think maybe yeah what you described pretty much described my team for five years

Yeah. I mean, some of the guys in the book, we'll link to the book in the show notes. I read the thing. I was just thinking, you're just making this project harder by being insane. And then having like red tape and all of these delays and like, oh, we didn't think about this, but it's going to cost a million dollars to fix or like $400,000 to fix.

Yeah. I mean, some of the guys in the book, we'll link to the book in the show notes. I read the thing. I was just thinking, you're just making this project harder by being insane. And then having like red tape and all of these delays and like, oh, we didn't think about this, but it's going to cost a million dollars to fix or like $400,000 to fix.

And it's like, you just need, the budget cannot be this like tightly controlled thing because... There's so much stuff that goes wrong.

And it's like, you just need, the budget cannot be this like tightly controlled thing because... There's so much stuff that goes wrong.

Yeah. Okay. I had no sponsors. You didn't have to lobby from some, yeah.

Yeah. Okay. I had no sponsors. You didn't have to lobby from some, yeah.

You pressure testing the sub. We kind of talked about this earlier in the show. You got to pressure test the sub, right? But also each of the parts?

You pressure testing the sub. We kind of talked about this earlier in the show. You got to pressure test the sub, right? But also each of the parts?

I see, okay.

I see, okay.

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It is that important that you support those who support the show. Now for the rest of my conversation with Victor Vescovo. I'm surprised that they didn't just go, hey, this is really expensive. If you want it back, we need more money.

It is that important that you support those who support the show. Now for the rest of my conversation with Victor Vescovo. I'm surprised that they didn't just go, hey, this is really expensive. If you want it back, we need more money.

Yeah, okay.

Yeah, okay.

Here's your million dollars.

Here's your million dollars.

That's what I meant by like this place looks like it was built. They describe it in the book is like vines growing through the walls. And it's like this is the number one place for this. There's a frickin tree growing.

That's what I meant by like this place looks like it was built. They describe it in the book is like vines growing through the walls. And it's like this is the number one place for this. There's a frickin tree growing.

That's really all it is.

That's really all it is.

So he went back down? Yeah, he went back down. Thank goodness. Well, yeah.

So he went back down? Yeah, he went back down. Thank goodness. Well, yeah.

That's the camera housing flexing under the pressure. It's fine.

That's the camera housing flexing under the pressure. It's fine.

What sort of tolerance does the material need to have in order to survive at those depths? Is it like space shuttle level, more or less? It depends on the part.

What sort of tolerance does the material need to have in order to survive at those depths? Is it like space shuttle level, more or less? It depends on the part.

I see.

I see.

Otherwise, there's too much pressure on the part. Right.

Otherwise, there's too much pressure on the part. Right.

Water just basically at the molecular level is pushing equally on each side.

Water just basically at the molecular level is pushing equally on each side.

That's pretty cool. That's really cool. There's something about that is like poetic. I heard you say if something goes really wrong in a submersible, you'll never know it.

That's pretty cool. That's really cool. There's something about that is like poetic. I heard you say if something goes really wrong in a submersible, you'll never know it.

Right. If you don't hear it, well, you're dead. So you don't even know. Yeah.

Right. If you don't hear it, well, you're dead. So you don't even know. Yeah.

Yeah, that's actually kind of a relief. The last thing you want to do is like run out of

Yeah, that's actually kind of a relief. The last thing you want to do is like run out of

I heard you had that movie on the ship, and it's like, who put that in the collection? I love Jim Cameron's movies. I think they're wonderful. But it's like, you watch that before you go down in a submarine? Yeah. It seems like a bad idea.

I heard you had that movie on the ship, and it's like, who put that in the collection? I love Jim Cameron's movies. I think they're wonderful. But it's like, you watch that before you go down in a submarine? Yeah. It seems like a bad idea.

Yeah, it seems like you'd be really tempted. Well, I've trained for this for three years. I feel a little off, but I'm probably fine. And that's like, no, that was the point at which, like 20-20 hindsight, that was the point at which you were dying and you were just the last to know. Like your brain was already telling you you were dying.

Yeah, it seems like you'd be really tempted. Well, I've trained for this for three years. I feel a little off, but I'm probably fine. And that's like, no, that was the point at which, like 20-20 hindsight, that was the point at which you were dying and you were just the last to know. Like your brain was already telling you you were dying.

That would be, that's, you have to do that one. But if you're, yeah, if I'm 10,000 or 20,000 feet under the sea, I'm watching like Toy Story 3. So yeah, you're that way.

That would be, that's, you have to do that one. But if you're, yeah, if I'm 10,000 or 20,000 feet under the sea, I'm watching like Toy Story 3. So yeah, you're that way.

Yeah, like my anxiety doesn't need any help in that direction. Let's say there's a fire, because I know that was one of the things, like electrical fires. How do you put out a fire underwater inside a submarine without killing the people? You have to remove the oxygen or something.

Yeah, like my anxiety doesn't need any help in that direction. Let's say there's a fire, because I know that was one of the things, like electrical fires. How do you put out a fire underwater inside a submarine without killing the people? You have to remove the oxygen or something.

Seeing your life flash before you is worse than just seeing your bank account flash before you.

Seeing your life flash before you is worse than just seeing your bank account flash before you.

It sounds like there's a lot of pretty damn cool advanced safety systems inside these things.

It sounds like there's a lot of pretty damn cool advanced safety systems inside these things.

That's awesome. I assume it gives you a beat before it accidentally do that. Because I'm thinking I would just be like, oh, this is great. Yeah. What am I forgetting? I feel like I'm forgetting something.

That's awesome. I assume it gives you a beat before it accidentally do that. Because I'm thinking I would just be like, oh, this is great. Yeah. What am I forgetting? I feel like I'm forgetting something.

Right, right.

Right, right.

Right, okay.

Right, okay.

I see.

I see.

Right. What do you do then?

Right. What do you do then?

Right, ideally.

Right, ideally.

Yeah. It's funny because right now a lot of people are like, this is so cool. And other people are like, this is why I'm never going to a submarine. I'm in the latter camp for sure.

Yeah. It's funny because right now a lot of people are like, this is so cool. And other people are like, this is why I'm never going to a submarine. I'm in the latter camp for sure.

Yeah. There's not enough money. The Queen of England doesn't have enough money to put me into one of those things. What sort of things are you looking for at the bottom of the ocean? Yes, shipwrecks. Everyone loves a good shipwreck. But are you taking rocks, plants, animals, soil?

Yeah. There's not enough money. The Queen of England doesn't have enough money to put me into one of those things. What sort of things are you looking for at the bottom of the ocean? Yes, shipwrecks. Everyone loves a good shipwreck. But are you taking rocks, plants, animals, soil?

Those are the ones that feed off of what, like sulfuric acid coming through vents or something?

Those are the ones that feed off of what, like sulfuric acid coming through vents or something?

Yeah, that makes sense, right? Something that can breathe gases that would kill humans and every other mammal. Pressures that would kill humans.

Yeah, that makes sense, right? Something that can breathe gases that would kill humans and every other mammal. Pressures that would kill humans.

Spherical bacteria, or however they survive, I don't know. I think that stuff is just so fascinating. You found a lot of, was it 40 plus new species or something like that?

Spherical bacteria, or however they survive, I don't know. I think that stuff is just so fascinating. You found a lot of, was it 40 plus new species or something like that?

I don't know.

I don't know.

It's essentially an island, yeah.

It's essentially an island, yeah.

Sea creatures are incredible. Susan, our mutual friend Susan Casey, was telling me all about some of the stuff that she sees when she goes down there. Just like totally transparent types of fish. Yep. Like how does that work? Well, they don't need pigments.

Sea creatures are incredible. Susan, our mutual friend Susan Casey, was telling me all about some of the stuff that she sees when she goes down there. Just like totally transparent types of fish. Yep. Like how does that work? Well, they don't need pigments.

But it's kind of cool, too. That is cool. So photons can't get down there because the pressure? The water is dense. Too dense. It's like armor. Wow. I didn't think it was that. I just assumed there was like some light that you needed to use computers to see it or whatever.

But it's kind of cool, too. That is cool. So photons can't get down there because the pressure? The water is dense. Too dense. It's like armor. Wow. I didn't think it was that. I just assumed there was like some light that you needed to use computers to see it or whatever.

Wow. So you're going down as far as what airplanes are flying high in the sky or is it? Yeah, about that.

Wow. So you're going down as far as what airplanes are flying high in the sky or is it? Yeah, about that.

Wow. How do you communicate? If photons can't go down there, can radio signals? Sound waves. Sound waves. Oh, well, that makes sense.

Wow. How do you communicate? If photons can't go down there, can radio signals? Sound waves. Sound waves. Oh, well, that makes sense.

Right, okay.

Right, okay.

Yeah. Wow. Gosh, all the problems it sounds like you had are kind of life and death, except for one. It sounds like the dialogue on the ship was, he almost died because of an air hose. We destroyed $300,000 worth of equipment. Something fell off into the ocean that we kind of needed and we can't get it back. We need a new one.

Yeah. Wow. Gosh, all the problems it sounds like you had are kind of life and death, except for one. It sounds like the dialogue on the ship was, he almost died because of an air hose. We destroyed $300,000 worth of equipment. Something fell off into the ocean that we kind of needed and we can't get it back. We need a new one.

And if you're new to the show or you want to tell your friends about the show, our episode starter packs are a great place to begin. These are collections of our favorite episodes on topics like persuasion, negotiations, psychology and geopolitics, disinformation, China, North Korea, crime and cults and more. That'll help new listeners

And if you're new to the show or you want to tell your friends about the show, our episode starter packs are a great place to begin. These are collections of our favorite episodes on topics like persuasion, negotiations, psychology and geopolitics, disinformation, China, North Korea, crime and cults and more. That'll help new listeners

Oh, and stop pushing the buttons on the coffee machine because it's expensive.

Oh, and stop pushing the buttons on the coffee machine because it's expensive.

There's a lot of sort of, I don't know if desensitization, probably desensitization is the right word with Everest, where There was that guy, Green Boots, who just had somebody who died on the mountain. He was there for like, I don't know, was it 20 years? And people would go, oh, there's Green Boots. It's like, well, that's a dead body.

There's a lot of sort of, I don't know if desensitization, probably desensitization is the right word with Everest, where There was that guy, Green Boots, who just had somebody who died on the mountain. He was there for like, I don't know, was it 20 years? And people would go, oh, there's Green Boots. It's like, well, that's a dead body.

Yeah, they're not up to the test. It's like, I don't even drink coffee. Yeah, you're a Diet Coke guy, I read in the book. Me too. Some of the requests. We need $750,000 for new thrusters, new mechanical arm, and a new Breville Oracle Touch because John keeps smashing it with his knuckles.

Yeah, they're not up to the test. It's like, I don't even drink coffee. Yeah, you're a Diet Coke guy, I read in the book. Me too. Some of the requests. We need $750,000 for new thrusters, new mechanical arm, and a new Breville Oracle Touch because John keeps smashing it with his knuckles.

I found it interesting that y'all were worried about the Chinese stealing the sub-technology to cut deep water transmission cables and disrupt financial markets. I was like, oh, I didn't think about that. Well, not just that.

I found it interesting that y'all were worried about the Chinese stealing the sub-technology to cut deep water transmission cables and disrupt financial markets. I was like, oh, I didn't think about that. Well, not just that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, Jesus. Wow. What other sort of security concerns were there with the project? Having your ship hijacked in Russia during the testing phase was one of them. What else?

Oh, Jesus. Wow. What other sort of security concerns were there with the project? Having your ship hijacked in Russia during the testing phase was one of them. What else?

I see.

I see.

Yeah. Well, yeah, it sounds like they were prepared to not give it up without a fight.

Yeah. Well, yeah, it sounds like they were prepared to not give it up without a fight.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It seems like if you're the one on the ship, you decide the rules of engagement. Like if they board, you have to surrender.

It seems like if you're the one on the ship, you decide the rules of engagement. Like if they board, you have to surrender.

I mean, that's a good idea. It keeps you alive.

I mean, that's a good idea. It keeps you alive.

It hardly seems worth it to be right and dead. Or I guess you would be wrong and dead. That's what happened to Titanic. Yeah.

It hardly seems worth it to be right and dead. Or I guess you would be wrong and dead. That's what happened to Titanic. Yeah.

I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That was terrifying. I mean, that was—the way society reacted to that was kind of gross, too. It was a lot of, like, who cares? They're just a bunch of rich guys. And I'm like, if they're down there, I thought maybe they were trapped in there with, like, slowly running out of air. Yeah. It sounds awkward.

That was terrifying. I mean, that was—the way society reacted to that was kind of gross, too. It was a lot of, like, who cares? They're just a bunch of rich guys. And I'm like, if they're down there, I thought maybe they were trapped in there with, like, slowly running out of air. Yeah. It sounds awkward.

I see. But I was almost glad to hear it was, like, instant—

I see. But I was almost glad to hear it was, like, instant—

What's the next challenge, man? You don't seem... You did the seven summers. You did the deepest parts of the ocean. You don't seem like a pack it in and relax kind of guy. So what's next on the docket? There's a lot.

What's the next challenge, man? You don't seem... You did the seven summers. You did the deepest parts of the ocean. You don't seem like a pack it in and relax kind of guy. So what's next on the docket? There's a lot.

Ben Lamb was on the show.

Ben Lamb was on the show.

And cars. You love cars. Do you think you will spend all of it before you leave this world? Is that kind of the plan?

And cars. You love cars. Do you think you will spend all of it before you leave this world? Is that kind of the plan?

For sure. Of course.

For sure. Of course.

That's interesting. I hadn't thought about that because, of course, when you read about it, it just sounds like a really hard hike with dead bodies around you.

That's interesting. I hadn't thought about that because, of course, when you read about it, it just sounds like a really hard hike with dead bodies around you.

Right.

Right.

Anyway, it's going to be something or pandemic. Well, that's actually very possible.

Anyway, it's going to be something or pandemic. Well, that's actually very possible.

Yeah, my pleasure. You got to open up a watch store. I actually want to see this watch that's been to the bottom of the ocean many times and into space. Let's fade out with that. you're about to hear a preview of one of my favorite stories from an earlier episode of the show. My friend Steve Elkins found a lost city in the jungle that most people never even knew existed. I'm not even kidding.

Yeah, my pleasure. You got to open up a watch store. I actually want to see this watch that's been to the bottom of the ocean many times and into space. Let's fade out with that. you're about to hear a preview of one of my favorite stories from an earlier episode of the show. My friend Steve Elkins found a lost city in the jungle that most people never even knew existed. I'm not even kidding.

It sounds insane. This has to be one of the most incredible stories I've ever recorded on the show. I know you're going to love this one.

It sounds insane. This has to be one of the most incredible stories I've ever recorded on the show. I know you're going to love this one.

Because no one can go get you. It's too hard. Oh, there's no way.

Because no one can go get you. It's too hard. Oh, there's no way.

Oh, man.

Oh, man.

For more with Steve Elkins, including the details on how they discovered the city and made one of the most important archaeological discoveries of the century, check out episode 299 of The Jordan Harbinger Show. All things Victor Vescovo. Actually, both pronunciations are right. I know some of you are paying attention and honestly, both are correct.

For more with Steve Elkins, including the details on how they discovered the city and made one of the most important archaeological discoveries of the century, check out episode 299 of The Jordan Harbinger Show. All things Victor Vescovo. Actually, both pronunciations are right. I know some of you are paying attention and honestly, both are correct.

We'll be in the show notes at jordanharbinger.com. Advertisers, deals, discount codes, ways to support the show, all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show.

We'll be in the show notes at jordanharbinger.com. Advertisers, deals, discount codes, ways to support the show, all at jordanharbinger.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show.

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Also, our newsletter, We Bit Wiser, the idea here is to give you something specific and practical that'll have an immediate impact on your decisions, your psychology, your relationships in under two minutes a week. If you haven't signed up yet, I invite you to come check it out. It really is a great companion to the show. JordanHarbinger.com slash news is where you can find it.

Don't forget about Six Minute Networking as well over at SixMinuteNetworking.com. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Remember, we rise by lifting others.

Don't forget about Six Minute Networking as well over at SixMinuteNetworking.com. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on Twitter and Instagram. You can also connect with me on LinkedIn. This show is created in association with Podcast One. My team is Jen Harbinger, Jace Sanderson, Robert Fogarty, Ian Baird, and Gabriel Mizrahi. Remember, we rise by lifting others.

The fee for the show is you share it with friends when you find something useful or interesting. And the greatest compliment you can give us is to share the show with those you care about. So if you know somebody who's interested in ocean exploration, I don't know, building submarines, exploring the mountain, pushing the limits of human potential, Definitely share this episode with them.

The fee for the show is you share it with friends when you find something useful or interesting. And the greatest compliment you can give us is to share the show with those you care about. So if you know somebody who's interested in ocean exploration, I don't know, building submarines, exploring the mountain, pushing the limits of human potential, Definitely share this episode with them.

That's a good point. You can't fly a helicopter up there or anything.

That's a good point. You can't fly a helicopter up there or anything.

In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time.

In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time.

Fast roping down, grab the guy and leave.

Fast roping down, grab the guy and leave.

My goodness. Everyone's so hyped up about space exploration.

My goodness. Everyone's so hyped up about space exploration.

get a taste of everything we do here on the show, just visit jordanharbinger.com slash start or search for us in your Spotify app to get started. Today, we're talking with an amazing explorer who's been to the peak of each of the Earth's highest mountains, as well as to the deepest parts of every ocean. We're talking with Victor Vescovo. Usually, I don't focus on these sorts of achievements.

get a taste of everything we do here on the show, just visit jordanharbinger.com slash start or search for us in your Spotify app to get started. Today, we're talking with an amazing explorer who's been to the peak of each of the Earth's highest mountains, as well as to the deepest parts of every ocean. We're talking with Victor Vescovo. Usually, I don't focus on these sorts of achievements.

Oh, yeah. By Jared Isaacman. So that was kind of a surprise to see in the news.

Oh, yeah. By Jared Isaacman. So that was kind of a surprise to see in the news.

That's super exciting. I'm stoked about space exploration. You've said ocean exploration is actually more important, or someone associated with you may have said that. I wrote that you said it, but now I'm not 100% sure.

That's super exciting. I'm stoked about space exploration. You've said ocean exploration is actually more important, or someone associated with you may have said that. I wrote that you said it, but now I'm not 100% sure.

Okay.

Okay.

How far away are we from mining asteroids, or is it so far that we don't know how far? Is it like kind of outside?

How far away are we from mining asteroids, or is it so far that we don't know how far? Is it like kind of outside?

How do they even figure out what's inside an asteroid? Because it's like, oh, the outside is, I don't know, whatever, iron ore and dirt or whatever. But inside is, I don't know, what's more valuable than gold?

How do they even figure out what's inside an asteroid? Because it's like, oh, the outside is, I don't know, whatever, iron ore and dirt or whatever. But inside is, I don't know, what's more valuable than gold?

That's pretty cool. That's pretty damn cool, though.

That's pretty cool. That's pretty damn cool, though.

I mean, first of all, lasers blasting into space and then going, that's a big old rock of platinum. How are we going to get that thing out of there? Exactly. That's kind of exciting. I see why people get stoked about this. Absolutely. And then when it lands, it's worth like $700 billion or something like that.

I mean, first of all, lasers blasting into space and then going, that's a big old rock of platinum. How are we going to get that thing out of there? Exactly. That's kind of exciting. I see why people get stoked about this. Absolutely. And then when it lands, it's worth like $700 billion or something like that.

I don't know. It's just not really my thing. However, not only did Victor descend to these previously unknown depths, but he also helped fund, design, test, and construct the vehicle that actually did it I was not aware that we know more about the surface of Mars than about the deepest parts of the ocean here on Earth. I really had no clue about any of that. This story is really something else.

I don't know. It's just not really my thing. However, not only did Victor descend to these previously unknown depths, but he also helped fund, design, test, and construct the vehicle that actually did it I was not aware that we know more about the surface of Mars than about the deepest parts of the ocean here on Earth. I really had no clue about any of that. This story is really something else.

Sometimes it's the technology you develop. I see. Yeah, that makes sense, right? Because if you can show, I don't know, the Air Force that you can do this, they're kind of like... Okay. How many gazillion dollars do you guys want for us to get this and for you to never sell it to China or whatever? Right. Exactly. Yeah, that's pretty amazing.

Sometimes it's the technology you develop. I see. Yeah, that makes sense, right? Because if you can show, I don't know, the Air Force that you can do this, they're kind of like... Okay. How many gazillion dollars do you guys want for us to get this and for you to never sell it to China or whatever? Right. Exactly. Yeah, that's pretty amazing.

I heard that humans have only explored 20% of the ocean, which to me is shockingly low. I just kind of figured like, oh, we've got at least 60, 70% of this stuff mapped, whatever.

I heard that humans have only explored 20% of the ocean, which to me is shockingly low. I just kind of figured like, oh, we've got at least 60, 70% of this stuff mapped, whatever.

I didn't realize. Because as a layman, I'm like, oh, submarines just shoot the sound thing, and then everything comes back, and there's a big map.

I didn't realize. Because as a layman, I'm like, oh, submarines just shoot the sound thing, and then everything comes back, and there's a big map.

Victor's kind of like a Tony Stark meets Jacques Cousteau kind of guy. He's also a really good storyteller and an amazing person all around. I am very glad that we got to do this one. So if you're interested in science, the oceans, sea life, climate, technology, this is a great episode for you. All right, here we go with Victor Vescovo.

Victor's kind of like a Tony Stark meets Jacques Cousteau kind of guy. He's also a really good storyteller and an amazing person all around. I am very glad that we got to do this one. So if you're interested in science, the oceans, sea life, climate, technology, this is a great episode for you. All right, here we go with Victor Vescovo.

71% of the Earth is ocean, and of that, 75% is completely unexplored. It's extraordinary. Deep ocean in the middle of the Pacific is completely unknown. We just don't go there, and it's hard to go there. And many of the places in the ocean are really rough. And because it's so harsh, that's why it's really hard and really expensive to explore the ocean.

71% of the Earth is ocean, and of that, 75% is completely unexplored. It's extraordinary. Deep ocean in the middle of the Pacific is completely unknown. We just don't go there, and it's hard to go there. And many of the places in the ocean are really rough. And because it's so harsh, that's why it's really hard and really expensive to explore the ocean.

I think I'm cursed with just an insatiable curiosity, which I'm probably most known for is diving to the bottom of all five of the world's oceans. If I'm going to spend money, I'm not going to spend it on a $10 million birthday party. I'm going to spend it funding some people that are trying to move the needle forward on technology.

I think I'm cursed with just an insatiable curiosity, which I'm probably most known for is diving to the bottom of all five of the world's oceans. If I'm going to spend money, I'm not going to spend it on a $10 million birthday party. I'm going to spend it funding some people that are trying to move the needle forward on technology.

It was kind of like Ocean's Eleven, where I basically got to go around the world and say, who is the best person for expedition management? Who would be the best ship captain? And because this was such an ambitious undertaking, they wanted to do it. That, I think, is the way to spend wealth. I enjoy exploration. I enjoy pushing technological boundaries.

It was kind of like Ocean's Eleven, where I basically got to go around the world and say, who is the best person for expedition management? Who would be the best ship captain? And because this was such an ambitious undertaking, they wanted to do it. That, I think, is the way to spend wealth. I enjoy exploration. I enjoy pushing technological boundaries.

But I like putting myself on the pointy end of the spear, and I don't leave it to other people. I want to be at the control. When I went down for the first time in the fully assembled sub, any number of things could have gone wrong because we had never put all the pieces together. Mine was designed and tested to a crush depth of 15,000 meters. That thing was a tank.

But I like putting myself on the pointy end of the spear, and I don't leave it to other people. I want to be at the control. When I went down for the first time in the fully assembled sub, any number of things could have gone wrong because we had never put all the pieces together. Mine was designed and tested to a crush depth of 15,000 meters. That thing was a tank.

and things did go wrong eventually, you can operate in a very dangerous world. You just need to be aware, and you need to mitigate those risks.

and things did go wrong eventually, you can operate in a very dangerous world. You just need to be aware, and you need to mitigate those risks.

100%.

100%.

71% of the Earth is ocean, and of that, 75% is completely unexplored. It's extraordinary. Deep ocean in the middle of the Pacific is completely unknown. We just don't go there and it's hard to go there. And many of the places in the ocean are really rough. And because it's so harsh, that's why it's really hard and really expensive to explore the ocean.

71% of the Earth is ocean, and of that, 75% is completely unexplored. It's extraordinary. Deep ocean in the middle of the Pacific is completely unknown. We just don't go there and it's hard to go there. And many of the places in the ocean are really rough. And because it's so harsh, that's why it's really hard and really expensive to explore the ocean.

I think I'm cursed with just an insatiable curiosity, which I'm probably most known for is diving to the bottom of all five of the world's oceans. If I'm going to spend money, I'm not going to spend it on a $10 million birthday party. I'm going to spend it funding some people that are trying to move the needle forward on technology.

I think I'm cursed with just an insatiable curiosity, which I'm probably most known for is diving to the bottom of all five of the world's oceans. If I'm going to spend money, I'm not going to spend it on a $10 million birthday party. I'm going to spend it funding some people that are trying to move the needle forward on technology.

It was kind of like Ocean's Eleven, where I basically got to go around the world and say, who is the best person for expedition management? Who would be the best ship captain? And because this was such an ambitious undertaking, they wanted to do it. That, I think, is the way to spend wealth. I enjoy exploration. I enjoy pushing technological boundaries.

It was kind of like Ocean's Eleven, where I basically got to go around the world and say, who is the best person for expedition management? Who would be the best ship captain? And because this was such an ambitious undertaking, they wanted to do it. That, I think, is the way to spend wealth. I enjoy exploration. I enjoy pushing technological boundaries.

But I like putting myself on the pointy end of the spear and I don't leave it to other people. I want to be at the control. When I went down for the first time in the fully assembled sub, any number of things could have gone wrong because we had never put all the pieces together. Mine was designed and tested to a crush depth of 15,000 meters. That thing was a tank.

But I like putting myself on the pointy end of the spear and I don't leave it to other people. I want to be at the control. When I went down for the first time in the fully assembled sub, any number of things could have gone wrong because we had never put all the pieces together. Mine was designed and tested to a crush depth of 15,000 meters. That thing was a tank.

And things did go wrong eventually. You can operate in a very dangerous world. You just need to be aware and you need to mitigate those risks.

And things did go wrong eventually. You can operate in a very dangerous world. You just need to be aware and you need to mitigate those risks.

71% of the Earth is ocean, and of that, 75% is completely unexplored. It's extraordinary. Deep ocean in the middle of the Pacific is completely unknown. We just don't go there, and it's hard to go there. And many of the places in the ocean are really rough. And because it's so harsh, that's why it's really hard and really expensive to explore the ocean.

I think I'm cursed with just an insatiable curiosity, which I'm probably most known for is diving to the bottom of all five of the world's oceans. If I'm going to spend money, I'm not going to spend it on a $10 million birthday party. I'm going to spend it funding some people that are trying to move the needle forward on technology.

It was kind of like Ocean's Eleven, where I basically got to go around the world and say, who is the best person for expedition management? Who would be the best ship captain? And because this was such an ambitious undertaking, they wanted to do it. That, I think, is the way to spend wealth. I enjoy exploration. I enjoy pushing technological boundaries.

But I like putting myself on the pointy end of the spear, and I don't leave it to other people. I want to be at the control. When I went down for the first time in the fully assembled sub, any number of things could have gone wrong because we had never put all the pieces together. Mine was designed and tested to a crush depth of 15,000 meters. That thing was a tank.

and things did go wrong eventually, you can operate in a very dangerous world. You just need to be aware, and you need to mitigate those risks.

100%.

71% of the Earth is ocean, and of that, 75% is completely unexplored. It's extraordinary. Deep ocean in the middle of the Pacific is completely unknown. We just don't go there and it's hard to go there. And many of the places in the ocean are really rough. And because it's so harsh, that's why it's really hard and really expensive to explore the ocean.

I think I'm cursed with just an insatiable curiosity, which I'm probably most known for is diving to the bottom of all five of the world's oceans. If I'm going to spend money, I'm not going to spend it on a $10 million birthday party. I'm going to spend it funding some people that are trying to move the needle forward on technology.

It was kind of like Ocean's Eleven, where I basically got to go around the world and say, who is the best person for expedition management? Who would be the best ship captain? And because this was such an ambitious undertaking, they wanted to do it. That, I think, is the way to spend wealth. I enjoy exploration. I enjoy pushing technological boundaries.

But I like putting myself on the pointy end of the spear and I don't leave it to other people. I want to be at the control. When I went down for the first time in the fully assembled sub, any number of things could have gone wrong because we had never put all the pieces together. Mine was designed and tested to a crush depth of 15,000 meters. That thing was a tank.

And things did go wrong eventually. You can operate in a very dangerous world. You just need to be aware and you need to mitigate those risks.

Except for all the stuff that's in it.

Most of the ocean is unexplored. Is the stuff that we've mostly mapped and explored just near the United States and Europe? Because is it just easier for us to access that stuff?

Right. Okay.

Yeah. Is that really what it's called?

So on the ship, I'm just trying to get my head around this. On the ship, you have terrible weather. You're stuck on the boat and you're just waiting for like one day that you can go down and do this. But the rest of the entire month, you're like looking out the window and going, well, today is not the day.

And then you read and eat the same stuff with the same people and get on each other's nerves for like the next 29 days.

I'd love to hear a little bit about your background because that's what really kind of got me. Susan Casey, who introduced us, was like, oh, he was in the military and then he did this thing and then he started a hedge fund and then he started this other thing and they went to all the mountains, they went to the bottom of the ocean.

Yeah, I can only imagine if you get one or two people that don't jibe, you're just like, I'm going to throw this guy off the boat.

Yeah, it actually makes a lot of sense. Of course, we've all seen businesses where there's dysfunctional teams, right?

Gosh, you mentioned waiting for a hole in the weather. Does that ever happen like at night? Like, okay, the night's going to be the calmest part or is it too dangerous to go down at night?

I was like, is this one person or did I, I had to rewind the book.

Oh.

Yeah. I mean, that just seems, it already seems terrifying in many ways. It's like, why make it harder? But if the only hole in the weather is at 4 p.m., it's like, well, all right. You do what you need to do.

That makes sense. Right. You don't want somebody who's sort of dozing off if they're supposed to stop that tension cable at a certain point or like is too tired to have full mental faculty.

Just the reason it was delayed is he was sleeping soundly. No, he's been up the whole time. Yeah. He's been drinking coffee since 5. Right. Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned in the book that something called crush depth limited humanity for a while. What is crush depth?

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Yeah, that was really horrible.

We're definitely going to get into that because some of the stories about testing this, I was just like, that's the test. Some of the like Soviet Union looking type stuff. Well, it was Russia. They were in Soviet Union, but yeah. But that thing was built, whatever. Well, we'll get there. We'll get there. Because I'm thinking that was not a modern facility, but I guess it doesn't matter.

It sounds like the way they describe it in the book is you got this V tattoo with seven peaks and five depths.

Yeah, this is definitely clipped right out of the book. For people who are wondering, you did not write the book. Someone else did. But it says, yeah, you got a V tattoo with seven peaks and five depths. So it was just like up and down. It's just wrong. I don't have a tattoo. I just thought like, oh, he got a tattoo. And then it was like, oh, I only thought about going to the tops.

Now I got to go to the bottoms. It's like... No. Just an apocryphal story that sounded cool in the book. All right.

Oh, I see.

That's really interesting because, of course, I have questions like, I can't believe there was trash at the bottom, deepest part of the ocean.

Okay.

Right.

You can't really even point to the Danes on that one because they sell it everywhere, right? It could have been anybody. But we'll blame the Danish, whatever. Is it Danish or Dutch? I don't even know. I don't even know. I don't drink beer. We'll blame the Danish anyway. So your concentration, I know you worked at a consulting firm, but you got a degree in some sort of defense-related thing.

It sounded really complicated, like air power in Europe or whatever.

NATO. NATO, yeah.

It's interesting because as a person who knows nothing about flying at all, you kind of think, oh, these machines are so advanced, the pilot just has to know the controls, but it's like not true at all.

Really? Wow.

Right. So it's not the top gun dog fighting. Yeah.

I am curious what, so AI would be like the best, theoretically the best pilot at some point, would be able to best the best human pilots at some point, and then that would decide everything.

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You'll be in smart company where you belong. You can find the course at sixminutenetworking.com. All right, back to Victor Vescovo. especially with like drone technology where your G forces is zero to like whatever maximum that would kill a human in like one second.

But that little bit of hesitation can kill you. I would imagine an AI can be like, I need to get three feet above the water level to avoid this. And the human's like, ooh, can I do that? The AI's just like, well, whatever. It's going to work or it's not. And I'm a machine. I don't really care if I crash. Yeah.

Okay, done. Yeah, done. Yeah. Whereas the guy's like, okay. I do have kids at home. Well, I'll just try it.

Oh, that makes sense. That actually makes sense. They have interesting stories that now I'm questioning whether or not they're true. In the book, when you climbed a summit in Russia in, I think it was like 1991, and you get back to Moscow and you're like, that's not the flag that was on top of the building.

You're lucky they weren't like, we need bargaining chips. Look at these three idiots that just walked into the airport.

You were on top of a mountain and the entire world changed overnight.

I mean, it's changed here also, right? We were like, okay, so no more nuclear annihilation, maybe? Yeah. Right? Yeah, you never know. Yeah, TBD on that one. Yeah. You speak fluent Arabic or you didn't at one point?

Now it's too late, but I'm going to ask anyway. Is it Vescovo or Vescovo?

I see. Because I was... I can't stop saying it one of those ways, but it depends which way you prefer because I'm going to write it down.

I was like, do this at the front of the show and don't forget. I just immediately forgot. No worries. Have you ever been seriously injured doing any of this stuff? Oh, yeah.

It sounds like that was, man, walking up these mountains is really tiring. What's more expensive but involves less walking? Ah, the ocean.

Imagine hearing that.

In a storm while injured and not able to move.

Get new ones.

I mean, you can't let the mountain win on that one. That would be a bummer.

Man, does being that close to death, does it bring life into stark reliefs or focus somehow?

I'm going to do this seven more times and then go in the ocean.

And they don't care. They don't care. Yeah. It's hard for people who are like indoor kid-ish like myself to, you really have to realize like this, this is what a hostile environment is, right? It's not just like, oh, the earth doesn't care about you. It's like, no, no, no. It would rather you fall off the edge of this mountain and die. Right.

I know you don't, or it says in the book, I have to preface everything with that now. It says in the book, you don't have any kids and you'd never married. I wonder if that makes it easier for you to risk your life because you don't have people who are like, oh, well, dad left us and then fell off a rock.

Interesting, because it distracts you.

I was wondering about that when I was reading about the submarine, the dives. It's like, if there's an emergency down there, you don't want to be with somebody who's like, oh my God, I never, my wife and kids, you're like, hey man, put the fire out in the electronics thing.

Yeah. That you're responsible for. Right. That makes sense. I mean, I can't do stuff like this. Not that I was ever cutsy enough to do stuff like this in the first place, but I've got two little kids and I would, my wife's like, you can't go to this dangerous country right now. Like what happens if you get, if you die? Right.

Yeah, it's unfair. It's selfish. I guess I'm calling those people who climb dangerous mountains with four kids a little bit selfish. I mean, they probably have a compulsive thing, and they're also delusionally confident that they won't die, probably.

Yeah, there's not enough money in the world, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I think I get why people don't change their risk profile. It's kind of like, I don't want to be old yet. I don't want to be out of the game yet.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's people working on that right here in Silicon Valley. Good luck with that. It's creepy when you're siphoning your son's blood into your body every day. That freaks me out.

So if I croak, Jen can text me about picking up a target.

From beyond.

Yes.

Well, especially with, I've got 2000 hours of my voice out there. It would be easy for somebody to do that.

Yeah. But it will be That seems like something you shouldn't use for a long period of time. Like a drug or anything else, right? Right. It's like maybe it eases you through a grief period of somebody suddenly dying, but it also has shades of the movie Psycho where he's talking to his mother, but it turns out to be a corpse in the basement in a rocking chair.

I don't know. Technology always cuts both ways. You might be onto something. Yes, exactly. This is going to sound like I'm belittling your accomplishments, and I swear I'm not doing that. But as I sit here in my living room, I would have thought by 2014, when you started diving to the bottom of these trenches, that we had done that already.

I would imagine it's terrifying. I have friends who go, don't worry about me. I'm going to Kilimanjaro. It's really easy. It's mostly walking. And then one of my friends passed away because a rock probably kicked off by a mountain goat just hit him in the head. And that was it.

The last thing you want to do is find out that you went to the second deepest part.

Remember that world record we gave you? Give me that shit back.

And he was like hiking. I mean, this is not he was not scaling.

Got it. So there's not like a super deep spot hiding somewhere. Unless it's under ice. Is that possible?

Okay. Yeah, I was thinking like under Antarctica. Oh, look, this one over here is just massively deep. No. Covered by glaciers. Oh. I heard in the beginning you bought an existing sub instead of building one. No, I didn't buy it. So that is also not true.

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What is the market like for secondhand submarines that can go that deep? Let's just say it's really, really thin. I would imagine you send them an email like, I'm thinking about buying that submarine, and they're like, delete. Who's this spammer?

We need to find somebody who has deep pockets and will just let us recklessly spend all of his money.

Yeah, yeah.

barely barely yeah but i gotta say the submarine world really does seem like it's full of of characters like guys who hunt for treasure guys who've lived all over the world and grew up all over the world people who are child prodigies people who grow up to build one-of-a-kind unique devices that most of us can only dream of and also just like some crazy people i think maybe yeah what you described pretty much described my team for five years

Yeah. I mean, some of the guys in the book, we'll link to the book in the show notes. I read the thing. I was just thinking, you're just making this project harder by being insane. And then having like red tape and all of these delays and like, oh, we didn't think about this, but it's going to cost a million dollars to fix or like $400,000 to fix.

And it's like, you just need, the budget cannot be this like tightly controlled thing because... There's so much stuff that goes wrong.

Yeah. Okay. I had no sponsors. You didn't have to lobby from some, yeah.

You pressure testing the sub. We kind of talked about this earlier in the show. You got to pressure test the sub, right? But also each of the parts?

I see, okay.

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It is that important that you support those who support the show. Now for the rest of my conversation with Victor Vescovo. I'm surprised that they didn't just go, hey, this is really expensive. If you want it back, we need more money.

Yeah, okay.

Here's your million dollars.

That's what I meant by like this place looks like it was built. They describe it in the book is like vines growing through the walls. And it's like this is the number one place for this. There's a frickin tree growing.

That's really all it is.

So he went back down? Yeah, he went back down. Thank goodness. Well, yeah.

That's the camera housing flexing under the pressure. It's fine.

What sort of tolerance does the material need to have in order to survive at those depths? Is it like space shuttle level, more or less? It depends on the part.

I see.

Otherwise, there's too much pressure on the part. Right.

Water just basically at the molecular level is pushing equally on each side.

That's pretty cool. That's really cool. There's something about that is like poetic. I heard you say if something goes really wrong in a submersible, you'll never know it.

Right. If you don't hear it, well, you're dead. So you don't even know. Yeah.

Yeah, that's actually kind of a relief. The last thing you want to do is like run out of

I heard you had that movie on the ship, and it's like, who put that in the collection? I love Jim Cameron's movies. I think they're wonderful. But it's like, you watch that before you go down in a submarine? Yeah. It seems like a bad idea.

Yeah, it seems like you'd be really tempted. Well, I've trained for this for three years. I feel a little off, but I'm probably fine. And that's like, no, that was the point at which, like 20-20 hindsight, that was the point at which you were dying and you were just the last to know. Like your brain was already telling you you were dying.

That would be, that's, you have to do that one. But if you're, yeah, if I'm 10,000 or 20,000 feet under the sea, I'm watching like Toy Story 3. So yeah, you're that way.

Yeah, like my anxiety doesn't need any help in that direction. Let's say there's a fire, because I know that was one of the things, like electrical fires. How do you put out a fire underwater inside a submarine without killing the people? You have to remove the oxygen or something.

Seeing your life flash before you is worse than just seeing your bank account flash before you.

It sounds like there's a lot of pretty damn cool advanced safety systems inside these things.

That's awesome. I assume it gives you a beat before it accidentally do that. Because I'm thinking I would just be like, oh, this is great. Yeah. What am I forgetting? I feel like I'm forgetting something.

Right, right.

Right, okay.

I see.

Right. What do you do then?

Right, ideally.

Yeah. It's funny because right now a lot of people are like, this is so cool. And other people are like, this is why I'm never going to a submarine. I'm in the latter camp for sure.

Yeah. There's not enough money. The Queen of England doesn't have enough money to put me into one of those things. What sort of things are you looking for at the bottom of the ocean? Yes, shipwrecks. Everyone loves a good shipwreck. But are you taking rocks, plants, animals, soil?

Those are the ones that feed off of what, like sulfuric acid coming through vents or something?

Yeah, that makes sense, right? Something that can breathe gases that would kill humans and every other mammal. Pressures that would kill humans.

Spherical bacteria, or however they survive, I don't know. I think that stuff is just so fascinating. You found a lot of, was it 40 plus new species or something like that?

I don't know.

It's essentially an island, yeah.

Sea creatures are incredible. Susan, our mutual friend Susan Casey, was telling me all about some of the stuff that she sees when she goes down there. Just like totally transparent types of fish. Yep. Like how does that work? Well, they don't need pigments.

But it's kind of cool, too. That is cool. So photons can't get down there because the pressure? The water is dense. Too dense. It's like armor. Wow. I didn't think it was that. I just assumed there was like some light that you needed to use computers to see it or whatever.

Wow. So you're going down as far as what airplanes are flying high in the sky or is it? Yeah, about that.

Wow. How do you communicate? If photons can't go down there, can radio signals? Sound waves. Sound waves. Oh, well, that makes sense.

Right, okay.

Yeah. Wow. Gosh, all the problems it sounds like you had are kind of life and death, except for one. It sounds like the dialogue on the ship was, he almost died because of an air hose. We destroyed $300,000 worth of equipment. Something fell off into the ocean that we kind of needed and we can't get it back. We need a new one.

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Oh, and stop pushing the buttons on the coffee machine because it's expensive.

There's a lot of sort of, I don't know if desensitization, probably desensitization is the right word with Everest, where There was that guy, Green Boots, who just had somebody who died on the mountain. He was there for like, I don't know, was it 20 years? And people would go, oh, there's Green Boots. It's like, well, that's a dead body.

Yeah, they're not up to the test. It's like, I don't even drink coffee. Yeah, you're a Diet Coke guy, I read in the book. Me too. Some of the requests. We need $750,000 for new thrusters, new mechanical arm, and a new Breville Oracle Touch because John keeps smashing it with his knuckles.

I found it interesting that y'all were worried about the Chinese stealing the sub-technology to cut deep water transmission cables and disrupt financial markets. I was like, oh, I didn't think about that. Well, not just that.

Yeah.

Oh, Jesus. Wow. What other sort of security concerns were there with the project? Having your ship hijacked in Russia during the testing phase was one of them. What else?

I see.

Yeah. Well, yeah, it sounds like they were prepared to not give it up without a fight.

Yeah.

It seems like if you're the one on the ship, you decide the rules of engagement. Like if they board, you have to surrender.

I mean, that's a good idea. It keeps you alive.

It hardly seems worth it to be right and dead. Or I guess you would be wrong and dead. That's what happened to Titanic. Yeah.

I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

That was terrifying. I mean, that was—the way society reacted to that was kind of gross, too. It was a lot of, like, who cares? They're just a bunch of rich guys. And I'm like, if they're down there, I thought maybe they were trapped in there with, like, slowly running out of air. Yeah. It sounds awkward.

I see. But I was almost glad to hear it was, like, instant—

What's the next challenge, man? You don't seem... You did the seven summers. You did the deepest parts of the ocean. You don't seem like a pack it in and relax kind of guy. So what's next on the docket? There's a lot.

Ben Lamb was on the show.

And cars. You love cars. Do you think you will spend all of it before you leave this world? Is that kind of the plan?

For sure. Of course.

That's interesting. I hadn't thought about that because, of course, when you read about it, it just sounds like a really hard hike with dead bodies around you.

Right.

Anyway, it's going to be something or pandemic. Well, that's actually very possible.

Yeah, my pleasure. You got to open up a watch store. I actually want to see this watch that's been to the bottom of the ocean many times and into space. Let's fade out with that. you're about to hear a preview of one of my favorite stories from an earlier episode of the show. My friend Steve Elkins found a lost city in the jungle that most people never even knew existed. I'm not even kidding.

It sounds insane. This has to be one of the most incredible stories I've ever recorded on the show. I know you're going to love this one.

Because no one can go get you. It's too hard. Oh, there's no way.

Oh, man.

For more with Steve Elkins, including the details on how they discovered the city and made one of the most important archaeological discoveries of the century, check out episode 299 of The Jordan Harbinger Show. All things Victor Vescovo. Actually, both pronunciations are right. I know some of you are paying attention and honestly, both are correct.

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The fee for the show is you share it with friends when you find something useful or interesting. And the greatest compliment you can give us is to share the show with those you care about. So if you know somebody who's interested in ocean exploration, I don't know, building submarines, exploring the mountain, pushing the limits of human potential, Definitely share this episode with them.

That's a good point. You can't fly a helicopter up there or anything.

In the meantime, I hope you apply what you hear on the show so you can live what you learn. And we'll see you next time.

Fast roping down, grab the guy and leave.

My goodness. Everyone's so hyped up about space exploration.

get a taste of everything we do here on the show, just visit jordanharbinger.com slash start or search for us in your Spotify app to get started. Today, we're talking with an amazing explorer who's been to the peak of each of the Earth's highest mountains, as well as to the deepest parts of every ocean. We're talking with Victor Vescovo. Usually, I don't focus on these sorts of achievements.

Oh, yeah. By Jared Isaacman. So that was kind of a surprise to see in the news.

That's super exciting. I'm stoked about space exploration. You've said ocean exploration is actually more important, or someone associated with you may have said that. I wrote that you said it, but now I'm not 100% sure.

Okay.

How far away are we from mining asteroids, or is it so far that we don't know how far? Is it like kind of outside?

How do they even figure out what's inside an asteroid? Because it's like, oh, the outside is, I don't know, whatever, iron ore and dirt or whatever. But inside is, I don't know, what's more valuable than gold?

That's pretty cool. That's pretty damn cool, though.

I mean, first of all, lasers blasting into space and then going, that's a big old rock of platinum. How are we going to get that thing out of there? Exactly. That's kind of exciting. I see why people get stoked about this. Absolutely. And then when it lands, it's worth like $700 billion or something like that.

I don't know. It's just not really my thing. However, not only did Victor descend to these previously unknown depths, but he also helped fund, design, test, and construct the vehicle that actually did it I was not aware that we know more about the surface of Mars than about the deepest parts of the ocean here on Earth. I really had no clue about any of that. This story is really something else.

Sometimes it's the technology you develop. I see. Yeah, that makes sense, right? Because if you can show, I don't know, the Air Force that you can do this, they're kind of like... Okay. How many gazillion dollars do you guys want for us to get this and for you to never sell it to China or whatever? Right. Exactly. Yeah, that's pretty amazing.

I heard that humans have only explored 20% of the ocean, which to me is shockingly low. I just kind of figured like, oh, we've got at least 60, 70% of this stuff mapped, whatever.

I didn't realize. Because as a layman, I'm like, oh, submarines just shoot the sound thing, and then everything comes back, and there's a big map.

Victor's kind of like a Tony Stark meets Jacques Cousteau kind of guy. He's also a really good storyteller and an amazing person all around. I am very glad that we got to do this one. So if you're interested in science, the oceans, sea life, climate, technology, this is a great episode for you. All right, here we go with Victor Vescovo.