Whitney Pennington-Rogers

That was wonderful.

And I know that your work is with people in their twenties, young adults, but, and you mentioned in your talk though, that this is something you can apply at any stage of your life.

And, um, at any point it's, it's not just advice that you should use in, in your twenties.

Is that right?

So I guess one thing I'm curious about is people have said, OK, I like this idea of these questions.

I want to ask myself these questions.

And they do that.

And then what happens?

I guess, what do you recommend people do next?

What is the way that they can take this further to advance themselves and this thinking?

have some sort of partner, whether, even if that partner is yourself, it sounds like that you're your future self, right?

Right.

Well, Mike, thank you so much for, for being with us today, for your, for your talk and for sharing so much of your wisdom around these questions and, you know, your twenties and so much more.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And you embraced that title.

After a while.

Maybe not initially.

But so, I mean, when you look back at that moment, what do you think struck a cultural nerve?

but one thing you touched on just now as well is this this idea of getting other people involved to talk about with let grow how you have this assignment for schools where they can have encourage children to to um be more independent yeah and so we have a question actually from from lori c you know if she just as a single as a parent and not somebody who can influence what's happening in her actual classroom in her child's classroom she says what advice do you have for parents who want to give their kids more freedom but maybe feel judged

by other parents or family members?

How can they help bring other people along on this journey?

I love all of these ideas.

And we have so many other questions about different people within the community and how they can be involved in this.

So there's a few members who are curious about how grandparents can support.

So Richard R, for instance, says, do you have any suggestions on how to constructively help our children let their own children grow without risking undermining their trust in us as caregivers?

Omar B asks about how you can tell the difference between sort of healthy independence and maybe pushing a child into a stressful situation before they're ready.

I guess, are there some signs that we should look for in the child to know that this is the right thing you're doing?

You learn by doing, by experiencing things.

Yeah, well, I mean, and all these years later, it's still something that people are still, it seems like, obsessed with and concerned by this idea of letting kids go on their own.

I'd love to broaden this out a little more.

So we definitely understand the benefits that you think exist for children and for parents to do this and others in schools and that sort of thing.

But what's in it for everyone else?

What is the benefit for the wider community, for people without children by allowing children to have more freedom?

And so could you, I guess, talk a little bit about this for those people who are new to your work.

What exactly does free range kids mean?

You actually have influenced policy around giving kids freedom through Let Grow.

In your talk, you mentioned a new law, the reasonable childhood independence law that makes it legal for parents to

let their kids go places alone.

What more do you think we need from government and from our communities to make this cultural shift happen?

Well, I think it's so interesting to think about the role that communities are playing in all of this.

And we have a question from Amy S. who talks about a four and a six-year-old children she has and how she lets her children roam outside of her home and often gets reactions from neighbors.

and soon would like to see them go to the park two blocks away by themselves.

And her question is whether you have thoughts on how a strategy, a good strategy for a safe solo crosswalk, especially for kids on scooters.

But I guess this is a question both for how parents can help their kids cross safely, but also what can communities implement to make this a better experience for everyone?

I love the idea of the cards that it feels like it's such a smart, easy way to to help this process for everyone.

Right.

Well, you know, there's so many challenges that we're facing in this time, you know, connected to technology.

The world is just changing so rapidly.

What gives you hope that we can raise a generation of more confident, independent kids despite all the things going on in the world?

Well, Lenore, we are out of time.

And I feel like we could talk for so much longer about this.

So I understand.

Truly, we didn't hit on all my questions.

We didn't hit on all the member questions.

Thank you to the members for submitting your questions.

I'm sorry if we didn't get to yours.

And thank you so much, Lenore, for

for taking the time to chat with us.

This has been great and we're excited to see more of you in the TED space.

And we'll definitely talk more about some of the work you're doing with Let Grow.

But before we get into that, I'd love to just keep going on this thread around how independence for children has really begun to shrink.

Why do you think modern parenting has become so focused on safety and control?

So when we think about this then, now everyone has decided, keep them close, don't let them roam, as you say.

What are some of the hidden costs of this, of overprotective parenting for both parents and kids?

And I love in the talk, and I promise we are going to come away from some of the somber stuff.

And in the talk, you say that I did it myself are both childhood's magic words and the original anxiety buster.

Think about it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Could you say more about that?

What role does risk taking and independence play in sort of raising resilient children?

Why do it?

well, okay, we've set the stage now for why thinking about this and having these conversations with yourself and your children, your community is really important.

And our member audience is so eager to hear you share more about how we actually do this.

So I'm going to integrate in some questions that we're getting from the members.

But before we get there, if you could just, I guess, start us off with your simple small steps for how people can practically begin to give their kids more freedom without feeling reckless.

You actually, you start your talk by mentioning that you have been called America's worst mom after you let your nine-year-old ride the New York City subway alone.

To help us make sense of this moment, I'm thrilled to be joined today by two big thinkers in the space of human migration.

Journalist Sonia Shah, who is a past TED speaker and an author whose most recently released book, The Next Great Migration, unravels our historical understanding of migration and its impact on the present moment.

and Zeke Hernandez, who is a professor at the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School and the author of The Truth About Immigration, which examines immigration's impact on the economy and beyond.

Hello to you both.

Well, you know, and I think...

Obviously, it feels like the biggest marker of how immigration is impacting things or changing things will have to do with actually our own identities and our sense of self and how migration is changing the way we think about even our own humanity.

When you see folks entering a space and this is how we define what it is to be

Hi, thanks for having us.

human and figure out who we are.

So I'm curious what you both think as far as how immigration has affected our identities and the way we think about about who we are.

And maybe, Sonia, we can start with you.

Thank you both so much for being here.

Well, we have so much to get into, so I'm just going to dive right in.

And I think one of the bigger questions around this issue when we think about migration is looking around to understand whether or not this moment feels different and actually whether it is different from others we've seen in history.

And Zeke, what have you found in this space?

How is this changing our sense of self?

So that will actually be my first question.

I'd love to maybe start with you, Sonia.

In the work that you've done, you've sort of looked at the history of how we've migrated.

How does this moment compare to others in history?

Now, I think to this point, we've largely talked about the effects of migration from what feels like a positive lens, maybe some of the benefits that are not often highlighted in the media.

But I'd love to hear from both of you, because I know you both acknowledge in your work that there are some negative social effects of migration.

beyond just, you know, these positive implications.

And so what are, what are some of these major negative effects and how do you think we can work to reduce them?

So maybe Sonia, let's start with you.

And what about you, Zeke?

What have you seen as some of the negatives?

Yeah.

That's great.

And I definitely do want us to, at the end, sort of get to a place of talking about how do we redesign some of this and rethink this.

But before we even get there, I know that there's so much that you've already sort of touched on in thinking about where things are headed and how the future might unfold.

And so taking into account things like, you know, Sonia, you touched on climate change, and I know that your work in many ways is thinking about migration as a result of climate change or

as it's affected by climate change.

But then, of course, other things like conflict and you look at declining birth rates, which you touched on, Zeke, and what that booms in other places.

How do you predict migration will change in the coming decade or even century if you're looking out further?

And Sonia, I'd love you to start since you have such a great historical sense of how migration has played out over the course of humanity.

And Zeke, you also touched on this idea of policy.

And so maybe that's something we could also bring in to this conversation.

When you think about what migration might look like in the years to come, what might policy look like to help for what sounds like what you're suggesting, Sonia, and also Zeke, I'd love your take on this, that will be sort of inevitable that people will continue to migrate.

No, that's great.

And I'd love for you, Sonia, to sort of even respond to some of this, like this idea of migration becoming inevitable because of the push factors.

And also, as Zeke mentioned, these choosers who have to choose to immigrate for the

flourishing of their own, of a nation.

Do you see this?

Do you think this is going to be an inevitability that all of us should begin to think of ourselves as migrants in some way?

that really does then get to this point around the sentiment of it.

And, you know, you've seen nations that have had at one point very migration-friendly policies have become more populist and nativist in recent years, decades, a lot of spaces in Europe, for instance.

And the question I guess then is if migration is the answer, how do we –

change the sentiment?

How do we avoid people swinging to the other side here in ways that we can almost predict as we're seeing people push out of certain spaces and into other spaces more?

Zeke, maybe you could take that to start.

So you're suggesting then Sonia that we're not actually seeing people migrate more than in the past.

It just feels like it based on the way the media is covering it.

And Sonia, as we think about the future and sort of where things could head, it feels like it's always important to kind of think back to the past and what we have seen and what are some lessons that we could take from the past when it comes to migration to help us shape a future here around how we move?

And so it almost begs the question of then what does humane migration policy look like?

Well, I think that actually leads to another point here, which is that migration has been a really huge political topic these days.

What does it look like for someone to, for nations to implement this in a way that is actually, is not cruel and is thoughtful about what it means for the individual and how it benefits the community?

And how could we usefully do this at scale?

Zeke, what do you think?

And I think one thing I find really interesting is that you both sort of make a point to tackle this topic from a place that largely leaves politics out of it and is sort of just looking at what you find to be the facts and the things that you've studied.

And I'd love to hear your thoughts on this too, Sonia.

And also, if there are examples you can share of spaces that where you have seen implementing sort of these humane migration policies, similar to what Zeke has suggested or proposed for the United States.

How do you think politicization of migration has impacted the way people think about migration?

And I'll ask you this because I know that's a huge part of your work and thinking about migration and how it sort of intersects with economics.

Well, I feel like the big goal with this conversation was to really understand how we can thrive in a world where people are on the move, where it is happening, whether you support the ways it's happening or you don't or support the idea of immigration or don't.

And I guess as we're winding down the conversation, I'd love to hear from both of you just what you feel like is the big thing that we're

not saying or not seeing in the media in the way migration is being portrayed or talked about that you think we're missing in this moment?

What is the thing that we should be talking about that we're not saying enough?

So Sonia, maybe we'll start with you.

Well, I want to thank you both so much for sharing all of your insight and thoughts on this.

I definitely learned a lot during this conversation and have taken in so much about how I think about this topic.

And I hope that everyone watching has also gained something from this.

So thank you.

Thank you both.

You touched on this a little bit, Zeke, but when you think about the sentiment then around immigration, that feels like that is something then that as we're looking at how

things are changing as far as the politics and culturally, the way we think about it.

Hello, and thank you for watching TED Explains, where we take the biggest headlines of the moment and offer clarity around what it all means and context on why it matters.

Do you feel that there is a sentiment that is more anti-immigrant these days than we've seen in the past?

I'd love both of your takes on this, but Zeke, why don't you start since you touched on this a little bit?

And Sonia, sort of turning to you, I think to even add to this, I love your thoughts on what you think are the fundamental differences we're seeing in our world that might contribute to the way we think about migration as you've looked at it over history.

I'm Whitney Pennington-Rogers, and I'm your host for this conversation.

These days, it's virtually impossible to watch the news and not see stories about migration.

It is and has always been the defining force of humanity.

Around the world, people are on the move for an array of reasons, from climate change to conflict to economic shifts and, of course, the enduring human pursuit of opportunity and safety.

And I think I'd love to get into that more too, just sort of thinking about how migration really affects the way we live our lives and affects our world.

And of course, we know that there are a lot of reasons why people migrate and we're using migration as sort of this umbrella term to talk about people who are immigrating by choice, people who are refugees and fleeing something.

And the media, regardless of what type of migration is happening, we see is often painting human migration as either good or bad.

But it seems the truth is a bit more gray, as is the case with most things, right?

I'd love to break that down and maybe in specific areas.

So maybe we could first start with the economy, which of course, as you can know, this is your real specialty in thinking about migration and the economy.

How do you see migration impacting the economy, both within the local national level and then thinking globally?

And yet, the headlines often reduce migration to crisis and controversy, leaving out the bigger picture that movement is a natural, even necessary part of who we are.

As borders tighten and debates intensify, it's more important than ever to understand what's really driving migration today, how it's shaping our global future, and what it means for all of us.

And Sonia, I know historically you've sort of seen what the conversation around migration has looked like as it relates to things like safety and security.

And that's often in the media and when we talk about the politics around migration is a big point of conversation around whether spaces become less safe because there are migrants there.

Are you making spaces safer by removing people from a space?

How do you see that migration actually does affect safety and security?