Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan
The Long Game with Girls Who Code’s Reshma Saujani
Tue, 15 Apr 2025
In this dynamic episode, Meghan sits down with Reshma Saujani, a tenacious founder who’s built two successful nonprofits that close the gender gap for women: first, Girls Who Code and now, Moms First. Meghan met Reshma years ago when Girls Who Code was expanding into the UK. Here, they reunite to talk about redesigning workplaces for women and how to make the hard choice to put your health (and yourself) before your work. Follow Meghan @Meghan and Reshma @reshmasaujani on Instagram. Stay up to date with us @LemonadaMedia on X, Facebook, and Instagram. For a list of current sponsors and discount codes for this and every other Lemonada show, go to lemonadamedia.com/sponsors. Joining Lemonada Premium is a great way to support our shows and get bonus content. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Main Theme: “Crabbuckit” words and music by Kevin Deron Brereton (c) Universal Songs of Polygram Int., Inc. on behalf of Universal Music Publishing Canada (BMI) / 100% interest for the Territory.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Chapter 1: Who is Reshma Saujani and what is her background?
I just, when challenged to go to the back of the school, you know, for a fight, I was like, okay, instead of just getting on the bus. And that day changed my life, right? I got beat up pretty bad. But I also realized I'm not white and I'm never going to be. And I have a responsibility to actually teach people about difference.
Like literally, I went to freshman year of high school and started a club called PRISM, like the Prejudice Reduction Interested Students Movement. Horrible name. I got better at that.
It's quite the acronym. But it's definitely high impact for a 12 or 13-year-old girl to come up with that. It says a lot.
Yeah, I guess it does. So, yeah, I think I turned to hope.
I turned to hope. I mean, honestly, it just says so much about your character to look yourself in the mirror and really see who you are. But even from that moment, you're still at a crossroads where you could have chosen, you know what, I am going to be an entrepreneur and I'm going to build a business and I'm going to be so successful. But instead, your activist spirit is what came through, right?
Always wanting to affect change. Yeah. I realized early on what my gift was. So I started going to Model UN and debate, and I realized, ooh, I can give a speech. I can communicate, and I actually feel at home. on stage. And I'm thinking the way to make a difference is to run for office. I'm in love with Dr. King, Mahatma Gandhi, John F. Kennedy.
Like back then, I thought politics, politics, and you can, you know how to communicate, like that's where you go. And so I, you know, volunteer on my first campaign, the 92 Clinton campaign, fell in love with politics and Washington and Hillary Clinton and the whole thing. And I'm looking at all these people like a Hillary, like
You know, and they all got a degree from Harvard and they're all lawyers. And so maybe that's my path, right? I'm going to Yale Law School. That's where I'm going. I apply three times. Don't get in. You know what I mean? Finally get in. But not just finally get in.
Didn't you make a plea to the dean? Didn't you just really go in? I did. I did.
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Chapter 2: How did Reshma’s early life and challenges shape her activism?
What happens then is that Bush v. Gore happens, and I'm thinking I'm going into public interest, right? I'm going to go work at the NLAACP, right? Like, civil rights, that's what I want to do. Bush wins. No one's going to D.C., you know? And I'm like, oh, and I'm $300,000 in student loan debt. I guess I'm going to go work for the man in New York at a law firm, which I hate.
And that's when I run for office. take this crazy chance, right, in running in a primary. I was 33 years old. My name was Reshma Sajjani. There had never been a South Asian woman to ever run before. I run for United States Congress. I lose, like, spectacularly. I mean, it's, like, not even close. But I had, like, convinced John Legend to do, like, two concerts for me, like, Jack Dorsey.
Like, I had, like, hustled. the whole world, right, into thinking that, like, I'm winning this upstart race. And it is not even close. Like, I'm crushed. And the biggest kind of aha for me was I'm sitting there the next day. I'm in my, like, 400 square foot Lower East Side apartment, and I've pissed off everybody in the Democratic establishment because I didn't wake my turn.
I ran against another Democrat. I'm broke because I spent a year running for office instead of working. And no one's calling me. Oh, no. No one's calling me. But the biggest kind of, I think, moment that changes my life is I realized, like, oh, my God, like, this was the thing that I thought that I was supposed to do. Run for office. Be a politician. Be a public servant.
The very thing that I had been driving towards, Yale, all of that was about this destination. It doesn't happen for me. But when I wake up the next morning, I'm like, oh, like— I'm not broken. Yeah, this sucks. But like, I'm not broken. Huh. I think we think as women that when we try something, especially something we want so bad.
And it doesn't work out that it will break us and we won't be able to like wake up the next day. We won't be able to continue on. Forget about like the humiliation and the judgment and all that. I think there's a sense that like failure will cripple you.
Right. That it will break you as opposed to break you open for the possibility of more.
Exactly. And so now the thing doesn't happen and I'm like, huh, there's a lot of things that I should maybe fail at and try and learn. And that's the path.
Yeah. And when it breaks open, it leaves space and room for so much more love, growth, resilience to all pour in. Yeah.
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Chapter 3: What motivated Reshma to focus on closing the gender gap in STEM?
And like that morning, I get a call from the doctor and they're like, okay, your HCG levels are not going up. You're going to miscarry. And I just got on a plane and I was sitting there in front of these girls and my heart was just breaking. And I remember saying, this is it. I'm not doing it again. And I went to my team and I said, guys, and I'd never told them I was going through this.
I mean, they kind of knew because they would see these doctor's appointments on my schedule, but I never... Like just said, I need, and I said, I can't do this anymore. I need you to take over. I need you to run this organization. I just need, I need a month. I need a couple months just to just breathe. Mm-hmm. That takes so much courage to say it. It did. It did.
But it's right because I had to detach because I felt like I was letting the girls down. I mean, how ironic is that, right? In my quest to become a mother, you have this beautiful line that I quote all the time. The most important title I have is mom. And I so desperately wanted that title. Oh. Yeah. You know? I do. And I just, it was the irony of it all, you know, was a lot.
Yes. But that in the journey, how many layers come up and then you can start to recognize those patterns. In your business, in your life, in, you know, I was, what is that book? I actually think I have it here. My friend just sent me this passage yesterday. It's called The Boy, the Mole, the Fox, and the Horse. It's a children's book that came out of the UK a couple of years ago.
But at any rate, beautiful illustrations. I have to get it for you. But the quote is, what is the bravest thing you've ever said? Ask the boy. Help, said the horse. Mm-hmm. And at a certain point, you go, the courage that it takes for a female founder, the courage that it takes for a woman when you're on this path, you're on this grind, you've set expectations.
The courage that it takes to say, I need help or I need to pause is tremendous. And there is no way to continue to show up and role model for these young women all the things that you aspire for them to have that you wanted to have when you were a young girl if you are not doing it with complete authenticity because you are so close to being burned out.
Yeah. Yeah. And it's funny. I don't know how to learn this lesson. I'm going to be honest. Like a couple weeks ago, you know, I had a breast exam and they thought they saw something and then I had to get a biopsy. And I had never gotten a biopsy before, so I didn't know what to expect. But they're like, you know what? It's just a pinch. You'll be fine. And I had a panel that night.
And I know now from DNCs and C-sections and, like, IUDs that it's not a pitch. So, like, I keep my schedule, right? I keep it all. I tell my husband, like, let me come with you. I'm like, no, no, no, no. I'm good. I got it. I'm fine. No. And it hurt, like— Hell, right? And I go and I do the panel and I'm sitting there and I'm like, what is wrong with you? Like, you know better than this.
What is wrong with you? And I think it's so hard to unlearn that. what this is really about. Because I think, one, it's personal, but two, like, the sense of, like, I'm strong, I'm resilient, I can take it, I got it, right? Because all these things have served me. It's why I've been able to do the things that I do. And then I think we live... in the society that encourages women to do that.
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Chapter 4: How did Girls Who Code get started and gain traction?
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So you mentioned before the break that a lot of these young female entrepreneurs that have that desire to build something are looking at their mentors and saying... No, thank you. Yeah. Based on the burnout they're seeing. And so I guess the question is, how do we turn that around? Yeah. How do we show that perfect doesn't exist?
And maybe that's part of the messaging, but also what does it look like now when you can find balance?
And it's not one or the other. You know, one of the things I'm seeing in the motherhood movement is people think you have to pick being a girl boss or a tribe wife. that it's black or white, right? That either you're in the workforce and you can't focus on your kids and you don't get to see them or you're just at home.
And I think the point is, is that we're just presenting these like polar opposite choices when really what we all want is something in the middle. I want to be able to pick my kids up, you know, at school every so often, give them a little hug and a kiss, have some flexibility, not be on the plane all the time. But I want to be able to crush it in the things that I care about.
Yes. Now you have the title of mom, just like me. Favorite title.
Love it.
I love being a mom. Oh, my gosh. I love being a mom so much. It's my favorite thing. It is the thing where you're like, oh, my gosh, I just need a break. I just need a minute. I just need a minute. And the second you step into the room, you go, oh, but I... Where are they? Let me just pop, let me just, let me scroll through pictures of them endlessly on my phone.
And then you just, my husband's like, my love, can you just give yourself a minute? Why don't you go work out? Why don't you go take a bath? I'm like, I know, but I just want to cuddle for, it's the parenting paradigm where it is so full on and I wouldn't trade it for anything.
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Chapter 5: What are effective strategies for fundraising a nonprofit?
And also with that comes the woman who is juggling it all and doing it all from home, being confident enough to tell the truth about what's going on. Because you can't give grace to someone in the same way if you just have no sense of it.
You don't know if they, my kids, for example, right now, one has RSV, the other has influenza A. I hear a little pitter-patter of feet upstairs from school, you know, cough syrup all night and rubbing the back and this and you go, and we still find a way to show up for both.
But being able to be comfortable enough, and maybe that's to your earlier point, how we teach this generation who might not feel as inspired to do some of the change making that we know has been so fundamental, say, no, just be honest in the journey of it.
And say, yeah, today I'm going to show up for you, but I'm showing up for you in my sweatshirt today because I've been up all night with my babies. But I'm still going to be able to show up for both because both matter and both are what keep my cup full.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. We breastfed in closets. We didn't put our kids' picture on there. We're like, oh, my God, I'm sorry. Completely. Like, I always say, like, you know, Girls Who Code, mostly women work for me. They get pregnant all the time. And we kill it, right? I have built like two of the most fastest growing nonprofits and we live our values.
And so the sense of that, well, you know, you're not going to be productive or you're like, you know, watching Netflix while you're at work. It's just not true. And so we just have to. But there's so much resistance. to change. And I do think that part of that is about having women ask for what they need and are male allies.
You know, one of the things that you've seen really shift in this remote work conversation is a lot of men are saying, okay, great, you want me to come back to work? Dads are saying, you need to support me in my childcare. You need to change your paid leave policies, right? You need to allow me to be a parent and just thrive. Right. But I think that is just absolutely right.
It's like, how do we ask and demand what we need? I mean, you see it even in promotions. Men will not, if they leave the workforce, they will go back and they will not compromise on their salary. Whereas women are like, all right, you want to pay me 20% less? Okay, fine. Thank you. Right.
It's true. It's true. And that's the shift that has to come. And I think, look, as you continue to grow out I don't know what your next chapter looks like for you, especially when you say eight years and then maybe time for a change. Now you've already forecasted that in some way because we know your proof points of how that works. What do you feel like your next chapter will be?
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Chapter 6: Why did Reshma decide to step away from Girls Who Code and start Moms First?
And, you know, the work I'm doing on my podcast right now, My So-Called Midlife, was like, I was in that inflection point between Girls Who Code and Moms First. There was no third baby, right? I was seeing wrinkles on my face that I hadn't seen before. My body was changing because of perimenopause. And I was just feeling like my best years are behind me.
And I started working with my monk, Razanath. And that's when I started reading the Bhagavad Gita because I realized like all the things that were holding me back and the things that I were holding on to. And it just opened up such this incredible moment of one, rethinking midlife for women. Because I think the view about midlife is so different for women and men.
And we need to change it because we are living longer than we ever expected. Ever expected. And I don't know if you knew this, but the largest gender pay gap is for women above 50. I have so many friends now who are approaching 50 and who are like, I can't get that promotion. I can't become a partner at that venture fund. I can't start that business.
The way we perceive women, their potential and their opportunity, and I call it the midlife penalty for women, really changes. And so... To me, I think I will continue to do this work, right? I will continue to do this work about women. I have made the realization, though, Megan, we may not win in our lifetimes. Meaning what?
Meaning that I might die with women having less rights than they had when I was born. That we may not see a female president in my lifetime. That your daughters, my nieces, may still be fighting the same fights that we're fighting.
And for me, that was a really hard reality to face in midlife because we went through all the things we sacrificed to our health, our family, and we have to say, God, is it worth it? Like, what is the point? What is the point if we keep dismantling progress? And I think I've realized that probably me, you, were put on this earth just like those suffragettes to just keep hope alive. Keep fighting.
Keep pushing. Because, yeah, that's the point. You lose, you lose, you lose, and then you win. Yes. Right? You lose, you lose, you lose, and then you win.
And sometimes just when you think you're about to win, oh, man, did that hurt because that feels like quite a loss. But you just keep going. And I think my understanding, especially in having this time to be able to hear your story and talk with you and see the commonality in some of these other – equally successful women that I'm speaking with.
We're going to talk about what's behind every successful woman. What's behind every successful woman is self-awareness. There comes a point where each of these women on their journeys has such a tremendous sense of self-awareness and the desire to dig deeper.
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