e215 chris creighton-kelly – optimism of the will

I would say that while there's absolutely no question that we're in a crisis, there's no question about multi crisis. I'm not sure we're in the state of collapse. And I think that methodology, that vision, that understanding of the world can lead to... You were talking about it a few minutes ago, doom scrolling and just doom. I find that that can create a lot of inertia in people, a lot of hopelessness and pessimism. I have a colleague in the US, Arlene Goldbard, and she's quoting (Antonio) Gramsci and she says, ‘pessimism of the intellect, but optimism of the will' and I like that shorthand way of thinking. My conversation with artist, writer, and cultural critic Chris Creighton-Kelly on September 24th, 2024 in Sidney, British Columbia, which is on the traditional, unceded territory of the W̱SÁNEĆ People. Chris is among others things, is co-director, along with artist France Trépanier of  Primary Colours – Couleurs primaires. I’ve condensed a long and rich conversation with Chris down to this new ‘fifteen’ minute format. You’ll hear highlights from our exchange about the role of art in times of crisis, the importance of listening to Indigenous peoples, generative discomfort and more…Episode notes generated by Whisper Transcribe AIAction pointsExplore the diverse roles art can play during crises, moving beyond propaganda to prompt meaningful questions.Embrace ‘generative discomfort’ as a tool for self-awareness and understanding one’s positionality in history.Prioritize listening to and learning from indigenous knowledge to enrich environmental movements.Recognize the importance of inspiration, defiance, and imagination as motivators, rather than guilt and blame.Consider how global narratives of human migration intersect with traditional, place-based Indigenous knowledge.Story PreviewWhat role does art play when the world feels like it’s teetering on the edge? Chris Creighton Kelly challenges us to move beyond simple answers and propaganda, urging us to find inspiration in discomfort and listen to the wisdom of those who have stewarded the earth for millennia.Chapter Summary00:00 The Crisis of Our Times01:55 The Role of Art in Crisis03:50 Art as a Catalyst for Change07:15 Generative Discomfort in Art08:37 Indigenous Knowledge and Environmentalism11:13 Migration and Traditional KnowledgeFeatured QuotesArt is best when it doesn’t give answers but rather prompts questions.This idea of confronting your positionality, or maybe even confronting is the wrong word, but becoming aware of your positionality…means knowing your place in history.One of the most unexamined resources of how to save this planet is to listen to Indigenous people.Behind the StoryIn a world grappling with climate change, social inequities, and mass migration, Chris Creighton-Kelly seeks to understand how art can foster awareness and action. He challenges the Western-centric view of environmentalism, advocating for the inclusion of Indigenous knowledge and a deeper understanding of our place in history. The conversation delves into the complexities of motivation, suggesting that inspiration and imagination are more powerful drivers than guilt and blame. *END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODESHey conscient listeners, I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020 on un-ceded Anishinaabe Algonquin territory (Ottawa). It’s my way to give back.In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and its francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I I publish a free ‘a calm presence' monthly Substack see https://acalmpresence.substack.com.Your feedback is always welcome at [email protected] and/or on social media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, Threads, BlueSky, Mastodon, Tik Tok, YouTube and Substack.Share what you like, etcI am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible. Claude SchryerLatest update on November 13, 2025

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