S3 | E3 - Joel Little (Grammy-winning producer) on making Royals with Lorde, creative collaboration, and why startups are like hit songs

Episode SummaryJoel Little is one of the world's top music producers, quietly shaping global hits behind the scenes - from co-writing Lorde’s breakthrough "Royals" to producing massive tracks for artists like Taylor Swift, Imagine Dragons, and Khalid. Despite Grammys, multi-platinum records, and billions of streams, Joel remains remarkably down-to-earth, bringing a uniquely Kiwi sensibility to Hollywood and beyond.In this special live episode, Joel flips roles with early Trade Me engineer and investor Rowan Simpson, uncovering the striking similarities between creating hit songs and building startups. They dive into the art of discovering and shaping raw talent, how Kiwi humility can be a secret weapon (and sometimes a weakness), and the critical role that producers, mentors, and early supporters play in global success stories.In today’s episode, we cover:• Joel’s wild ride from recording Royals in two days to topping global charts, winning Grammys, and producing some of the decade’s biggest songs• What music producers actually do, and why creative collaboration often feels like therapy• Why Joel sold his song catalogue (and how that’s like a startup “exit”)• The parallels between startups and music: from finding product-market fit, to pivoting when something’s not working, to knowing how to scale authentically• How Kiwi humility can be both a superpower and a stumbling block on the world stage• The backstory of Joel’s non-profit Big Fan, building studios and stages for the next generation of Kiwi artistsWe also hear about Joel’s own personal growth, from musician in Goodnight Nurse to world-renowned producer, and Rowan’s perspective from the early days of Trade Me and Xero, reflecting on how creativity and business blend in unexpected ways.Time Stamps00:00 Intro01:19 Meet Joel Little: Grammy-winning Kiwi producer behind Royals, Taylor Swift, Khalid, and more03:07 What does a producer actually do? Joel breaks down his creative process10:22 The making of Royals: how a song recorded in two days became a global hit15:58 Life after Royals: from struggling musician to Grammy-winning producer19:08 Working with global superstars: Imagine Dragons, Khalid, Taylor Swift22:04 How Joel avoided the classic rockstar pitfalls (and stayed authentically Kiwi)23:12 Why Kiwi humility is both Joel’s secret weapon and greatest challenge28:00 Early days at Trade Me - Rowan shares his journey from scrappy startup to Kiwi tech icon30:16 What Joel looks for in creative collaborators—and how startups can learn from his approach42:12 Selling his catalogue: Joel’s version of a startup “exit”46:30 Big Fan: Joel’s nonprofit building studios and stages for the next generation of artistsResourcesJoel Little’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamjoellittleRowan Simpson's Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rowansimpson/Big Fan – Joel’s nonprofit for emerging Kiwi artists: https://bigfan.co.nzRoyals by Lorde (Grammy-winning single produced by Joel Little): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlcIKh6sBtcYoung Dumb & Broke by Khalid (Joel’s biggest streaming hit): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPfJnp1guPc

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