Why Facts Don't Change Minds

In this episode, we're joined by Drew Dumsch, President and CEO of the Ecology School at River Bend Farm in Maine. Drew co-founded the organization 26 years ago with a premise that felt radical then and feels essential now: that ecological literacy — learning to read the landscape the way you learn to read a book — is foundational to creating engaged, compassionate citizens capable of understanding complex systems.This conversation challenges the assumption that more information will save us. Instead, it offers a different path: one grounded in systems thinking, regenerative principles, and the radical act of kindness in a moment defined by casual cruelty.Key Topics DiscussedWhy traditional environmental education fails to create lasting changeThe disconnect between climate knowledge and climate actionSystems thinking vs. factual learning: what creates ecological literacyHow regenerative principles extend beyond agriculture to learning and leadershipBuilding bipartisan consensus in an era of toxic polarizationThe relationship between hope, understanding, and agencyMeeting people where they are vs. demanding perfectionWhy collaboration (not competition) is the only path forwardThe role of compassion in climate actionWhat it means to reimagine the future now, not laterNotable Quotes"Being told facts is not the purpose of education. Facts are part of becoming a well-rounded human being and an engaged citizen, but I think a huge gap is that as a society, we lack the ability to understand systems." — Drew Dumsch"You could create sustainability through fascism and cruelty. It may be sustainable, but is that a vibrant community you want to live in?" — Drew Dumsch"Showing up to work every day is my act of rebellion." — Drew Dumsch"Hope is based on both understanding of what can be and then agency to be a part of that." — Drew Dumsch"People want the simple solution. That's boring. I think the level of diversity in solutions is exciting and creative." — Drew DumschResourcesThe Ecology School at River Bend Farm Website: theecologyschool.org LinkedIn: The Ecology School Instagram: @ecologyschoolMentioned in the Episode:The Triple Focus: A New Approach to Education by Daniel Goleman and Peter SengeMaine Outdoor School for All networkLiving Building ChallengeP.S. — Feeling a disconnect between your mission and your brand? Cosmic helps social impact leaders build trust through story-rich brands, compelling campaigns, and values-aligned strategy. Let's talk about how to elevate your impact: https://designbycosmic.com/Listeners, now you can text us your comments or questions by clicking this link.*** If you liked this episode, please help spread the word. Share with your friends or co-workers, post it to social media, “follow” or “subscribe” in your podcast app, or write a review on Apple Podcasts. We could not do this without you! We love hearing feedback from our community, so please email us with your questions or comments — including topics you’d like us to cover in future episodes — at [email protected] Thank you for all that you do for your cause and for being part of the movement to move humanity and the planet forward.

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