Nearly everything that politicians say about taxes is at least half a lie. They are also dishonest when it comes to the national debt. Stephen Dubner finds one of the few people in Washington who is willing to tell the truth — and it’s even worse than you think. SOURCES:Jessica Riedl, senior fellow in budget, tax, and economic policy at the Manhattan Institute. RESOURCES:"The House Wants to Pass Trump’s Agenda in One Big Bill. Here’s What’s in It." by Margot Sanger-Katz and Alicia Parlapiano (New York Times, 2025)."Correcting the Top 10 Tax Myths," by Jessica Riedl (Manhattan Institute, 2024)."Spending, Taxes, and Deficits: A Book of Charts," by Jessica Riedl (Manhattan Institute, 2024)."Why Did Americans Stop Caring About the National Debt?" by Jessica Riedl (Reason, 2024)."A Comprehensive Federal Budget Plan to Avert a Debt Crisis," by Jessica Riedl (Manhattan Institute, 2024)."When Does Federal Debt Reach Unsustainable Levels?" by Jagadeesh Gokhale, Kent Smetters, and Mariko Paulson (The Wharton School of Business, 2023)."The Limits of Taxing the Rich," by Jessica Riedl (Manhattan Institute, 2023). EXTRAS:"Farewell to a Generational Talent," by Freakonomics Radio (2024).
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In Washington, D.C., there is a set of people who move into town when their party comes to power and who eventually leave once their party is voted out. These are the high profile residents of D.C., the ones who make headlines. But for every one of these people, there are thousands more that you rarely hear about or hear from. This is the other Washington, D.C.
These people work behind the scenes on all sorts of important matters like U.S. tax policy or the runaway national debt. Our guest today is a specialist in both those matters.
My nonpartisan approach is to be critical of everybody in Washington. Do you have any friends? No, not really. Much of my policy has been sharing uncomfortable truths and frankly, angering people.
So do you see yourself as someone who's sounding the alarm?
Absolutely. I've been sounding the alarm since 2001. How's that working out? As you can see from the debt, my career has been an abject failure.
This friendless soul is Jessica Riedel.
I'm a senior fellow in budget, tax, and economic policy at the Manhattan Institute.
Despite her claim to failure, Riedel is consistently named by Washingtonian Magazine as one of the most influential economic policy professionals in D.C. She has testified before Congress. She routinely briefs lawmakers in both political parties. And she has two messages. Number one, the federal debt crisis is even worse than you think, and few politicians have the courage to do anything about it.
And number two, just about everything you know about U.S. tax policy is wrong. Today on Freakonomics Radio, federal debt and tax myths. Could we possibly be having any more fun? That starts now.
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