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Freakonomics Radio

631. Will "3 Summers of Lincoln" Make It to Broadway?

25 Apr 2025

Description

It’s been in development for five years and has at least a year to go. On the eve of its out-of-town debut, the actor playing Lincoln quit. And the producers still need to raise another $15 million to bring the show to New York. There really is no business like show business. (Part three of a three-part series.) SOURCES:Christopher Ashley, artistic director of La Jolla Playhouse.Debby Buchholz, managing director of La Jolla Playhouse.Carmen Cusack, actor.Quentin Earl Darrington, actor.Joe DiPietro, playwright and lyricist.Crystal Monee Hall, composer, singer, actor.Ivan Hernandez, actor.Michael Rushton, professor of arts administration at Indiana University.Jeffrey Seller, Broadway producer.Alan Shorr, Broadway producer.Daniel Watts, writer, choreographer, actor. RESOURCES:3 Summers of Lincoln (2025)."Review: Visceral ‘3 Summers of Lincoln’ is thrilling and thought-provoking," by Pam Kragen (San Diego Union-Tribune, 2025)."What’s Wrong with the Theatre is What’s Wrong With Society," by Michael Rushton (ArtsJournal, 2023)."American Theater Is Imploding Before Our Eyes," by Isaac Butler (New York Times, 2023).The Moral Foundations of Public Funding for the Arts, by Michael Rushton (2023). EXTRAS:“How to Make the Coolest Show on Broadway,” by Freakonomics Radio (2024).“You Can Make a Killing, but Not a Living,” by Freakonomics Radio (2024).

Audio
Transcription

Full Episode

5.752 - 25.3 Narrator

In the first episode of this series, we heard about the creation of a new musical called Three Summers of Lincoln, as in Abraham Lincoln. The show is set during the Civil War and it centers around Lincoln's relationship with the abolitionist Frederick Douglass. The producers Alan Shore and Richard Winkler commissioned the playwright Joe DiPietro to write the script.

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25.801 - 45.709 Narrator

He brought along Daniel Watts as his co-lyricist and then the composer Crystal Monet-Hall. After three years of development, the Lincoln team held some workshop performances in New York that persuaded them they were ready to give the show its world premiere at the La Jolla Playhouse in San Diego, or at least almost ready.

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46.354 - 66.537 Quentin Darrington

I just felt the narrative at the beginning wasn't as sharp as the rest of the show. That's DiPietro. The challenge in a musical like this is you're telling an epic story. I mean, how many different versions of the Civil War could you write? There needs to be a spine to it. How can we have the spine as clear as quickly as possible?

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67.058 - 75.219 Quentin Darrington

We felt, for instance, that the character of Mary Lincoln, she wasn't in the score as much, especially given the actress who is going to play that role.

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75.939 - 97.266 Narrator

That actress is Carmen Cusack, who has twice been nominated for a Tony Award on Broadway. And so DiPietro had Daniel Watts and Crystal Monet Hall come to his apartment on the Upper West Side to work on a new song for Mary Lincoln, a duet with Abraham. Hall played a demo she'd made on her own, a song called Twelve Rooms in Springfield.

98.626 - 105.048 Daniel J. Watts

Alive in twelve rooms. Alive in twelve rooms.

105.919 - 116.531 Narrator

The song has the Lincolns thinking about going back home to Illinois if Abraham loses re-election for the presidency, which, considering how badly the war is going, seems likely.

116.551 - 123.318 Daniel J. Watts

That was actually good to hear again.

124.437 - 142.125 Narrator

The three of them are sitting around DiPietro's dining room table. They've got laptops open to a Google Doc and to RhymeZone.com, the modern lyricist's best friend. They work together with the ease and trust of collaborators who've by now spent hundreds of hours like this.

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