In Jesus Wept, investigative journalist Philip Shenon examines the last seven popes, and how efforts to reform the Church with the Second Vatican Council led to power struggles and doctrinal debates that lasted for decades. He spoke with Dave Davies about the theological clashes, scandal, and the accuracy of the movie Conclave.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy
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This is Fresh Air. I'm Dave Davies. We in the media regularly cover the decisions of powerful leaders in government and business and how they affect our lives. My guest today, veteran investigative reporter Philip Sheenan, has spent much of the last 10 years examining the impact of seven powerful men who've exercised a different kind of authority.
They're the last seven popes of the Catholic Church, whose intense power struggles and doctrinal debates affect more than a billion Catholics in countless ways. Whether they can use birth control or get an abortion or divorce and remain in good standing in the faith,
Whether priests must forever remain unmarried and celibate, a rule with little biblical authority that fuels a drastic shortage of priests and leaves millions unable to regularly attend Mass or receive sacraments. Whether same-sex couples can be accepted in the church. And whether sexual predators will be stopped and held accountable.
Sheenan's book is the story of a bold attempt to reform the church in the early 1960s and decades of backsliding that followed under pontiffs more comfortable with conservative traditions and power concentrated in the Vatican. Philip Sheenan spent more than 20 years at the New York Times covering the Pentagon, the Justice Department, the State Department, and Congress.
His two previous books focused on the 9-11 investigation and unanswered questions about the Kennedy assassination. His new book is Jesus Wept, Seven Popes and the Battle for the Soul of the Catholic Church. Philip Sheenan, welcome back to Fresh Air.
Dave, thanks for having me.
He is known for not having spoken out against Nazi crimes despite substantial evidence that he was aware of them. But there's even more. You tell a story in the book which was new to me of this Pope Pius before he was pope, when he was an archbishop in Munich, meeting personally with a then rising Adolf Hitler. What happened here?
I think it's fair to say that Pacelli loved Germany more than he loved his homeland, Italy.
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