They Tortured Him for Years. Now They Rule Syria.

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Honestly with Bari Weiss 57 min 8 speakers transcribed
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This episode is brought to you by the Foundation for Defense of Democracies. FDD is a nonpartisan research institute dedicated to advancing U.S. foreign policy and national security. Founded in the wake of the 9-11 attacks by Cliff May, FDD has become a powerhouse for shaping some of America's most critical foreign policy debates. Their mission? To expose and confront authoritarian regimes, terror networks, and nuclear threats. Their work is so effective that both the organization and its individual experts have been sanctioned and threatened by name, but they refuse to back down. And importantly, FDD never takes foreign government funding, so they stay independent. Today, FDD tracks the courageous protests in Iran, where citizens risk their lives opposing the regime. Under the leadership of their CEO and my friend Mark Dubowitz, FDD continues to amplify these voices for freedom and devises ways for the West to support them. I encourage you to learn more about FDD's vital work at fdd.org and consider supporting their mission.
Michael Moynihan 1:08
From the Free Press, this is Honestly. I'm Michael Moynihan.
Newscaster 1:12
The Syrian government apparently has fallen after a sudden rebel offensive sprinted into the capital of Damascus.
Michael Moynihan 1:18
Last week marked a historic turning point in Syria.
Newscaster 1:21
After 13 years of civil war in Syria, More than half a century of brutal authoritarian rule by Bashir Assad and his father before him. Rebel forces have forced Assad to resign his office and flee the country. Assad's private residence ransacked with furniture overturned, items strewn everywhere. An opposition fighter spotted sitting inside this office at the presidential palace.
Michael Moynihan 1:46
For decades, the Assad dynasty ruled through unimaginable violence, launching chemical attacks on civilians, silencing dissent with mass imprisonment and torture, and presiding over a civil war that killed an estimated 600,000 people and drove 13 million into exile.
Syrian Civilian 2:01
The freedom for Syria, we pay a huge, huge price for that.
Michael Moynihan 2:08
In cities across the world, jubilant Syrians have celebrated the regime's downfall as one of the world's most oppressive dictatorships has now collapsed.
Syrian Civilian 2:16
This is absolutely amazing. After all of these years, we are live on the international TV. This is amazing.
Raymond Huff 2:24
This is unspeakable.
Syrian Civilian 2:26
This is us after 50 years of darkness. This is us after 50 years of death. This is absolutely amazing. Did you ever imagine? We've had 14 years of civil war. Did you ever imagine this? You can't even cross this idea over your mind.
Michael Moynihan 2:52
But not everyone is celebrating. Or at least some people are saying there's reason for caution. That's because the Coalition of Rebel Forces Taking Control of Syria is led by Hayat Tahrir al-Sham, or HTS, a militant Islamist organization which originated as an offshoot of al-Qaeda. Its leader is a Saudi-born Syrian who calls himself Abu Muhammad al-Jolani.
HTS Member 3:13
— The course of the battle, as for the secrets of the battle, let's leave them to the unfolding events. You will witness them in reality, which is better than discussing them now.
Interviewer 3:25
— In a matter of days, you have taken major cities. What's changed? How are you able to do this now?
HTS Member 3:34
In recent years, there has been a unification of internal opinions and the establishment of institutional structures within the liberated areas.
Michael Moynihan 3:42
A 21-year-old al-Jilani left Syria for Iraq in 2003 to join al-Qaeda and fight against America. There, he was captured by the U.S. and put into Bukha Jail, which housed some of the most notorious al-Qaeda prisoners. But since emerging on the world stage in the last week, Jelani has indicated that he's a reformed man, leading a moderated organization. He insists his al-Qaeda days and their methods — the detentions and torture and forced conversions — are over, and HTS is not going to persecute religious and ethnic minorities. But is it true? Few people in the West might know the answer, as well as journalist Theo Padnos.
Theo Padnos 4:22
The Western governments are on the side of the torturers, and I don't understand this.
Michael Moynihan 4:28
In October 2012, Padnos ventured from Turkey into Syria to report on the Syrian civil war. There, he was captured by HTS, then known as Jabhat al-Nusra, and held captive for nearly two years. Throughout his captivity, Padnos endured relentless torture at the hands of his captors.

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