In this insightful episode, Charles explores the entrepreneurial journey and personal resilience with Bobby Mesmer, founder and CEO of RMG Erectors & Constructors, LLC, now valued at $4.5 billion. Bobby reveals his path from bootstrapping his business to building one of the largest steel erection companies in the world, sharing how multiple life-threatening health crises transformed both his personal outlook and business approach. The conversation shifts from business strategies to profound personal reflection as Bobby opens up about facing mortality through multiple strokes and a heart attack that left him partially disabled and questioning his worth as a leader, husband, and father. Rather than focusing solely on business tactics, Charles and Bobby explore how vulnerability and self-belief become essential components of both personal recovery and business growth. Together, they challenge conventional entrepreneurial wisdom, emphasizing that true success comes from learning from failures and sharing those lessons with others—what Bobby calls paying the "dummy tax." Key Takeaways: * Why bootstrapping creates more resilient business owners than seeking venture capital * How near-death experiences can reveal your true purpose in business and life * The operational excellence formula that transformed Bobby's company into an industry leader * How embracing personal vulnerability after health setbacks can become an unexpected source of strength Head over to podcast.iamcharlesschwartz.com to download your exclusive companion guide, designed to guide you step-by-step in implementing the strategies revealed in this episode. KEY POINTS: 02:13 - The Dummy Tax Philosophy: Bobby explains his core business philosophy: "Dummy tax. I made the mistakes learned from me, right? Like, and you know, it started anybody in business, if you're not failing, you should be because that's the only way you're learning." 06:00 - The Scale of Success: Bobby reveals the impressive scale of his business achievements: "We develop that business into also manufacturing and engineering and design... We're the largest purchaser of fabricated steel in North America." 09:44 - The Problem with VC Funding: Bobby shares his strong view on bootstrapping vs. seeking investors: "When you take on capital, the problem with that is, is you're creating a crutch with the capital you're taking on because you're not going through the heartache of running a business and learning how to grow." 13:01 - The True Entrepreneur Test: Bobby explains how to identify real entrepreneurs: "It's very simple. What are you doing in the face of diversity? It starts there. When that adversity hits you, what are your actions? Either you're sticking your head in the sand or you're pulling yourself by your bootstraps." 35:53 - The Health Crisis Reality: Bobby opens up about his devastating health challenges: "When I had my stroke, I lost a whole left side of my body, like I couldn't move my face... that was the first time in my life, like, I felt real fear, you know, like, I was like, holy shit, like, this is, this is real." 37:46 - Wrestling with Unworthiness: Bobby reveals his deeper struggles after health setbacks: "You have a lot of, you know, self-awareness that comes about you through that... You start to question things and you go through so many emotions of, you know, am I really the strong? Should I really be doing this? I'm not worthy? I'm not good enough for my wife. I'm not good enough for my kids." 50:02 - Finding Purpose Through Pain: Bobby shares how he found meaning after his health crises: "I have more to do. I have more to do. I know that I've been gifted with a gift in a lot of ways. I've been gifted with a gift that I need to give back to people... if my survival through what I went through is that gift that I need to give back, that I need to give that back until it's done."
Chapter 1: Who is Bobby Mesmer and what is his entrepreneurial background?
Absolutely. We talk about the dummy task on a high level and a lot of people don't know who you are. I'd love to talk about a little bit of your story, how you had to pay the dummy tax on a high level for most people who don't know what that is. You paid it on a really intense level. So for everybody who's listening, let's get into it.
Chapter 2: What is Bobby’s 'Dummy Tax' philosophy in business?
Yeah, multiple times, man. Dummy tax. I made the mistakes, learn from me, right? Anybody in business, if you're not failing, you should be, because that's the only way you're learning, right? That's the only way you're progressing. And that's what the dummy tax is. It's basically learning from your mistakes and then having the energy to get out there and introduce what I learned to people, right?
damit sie von meinen Fehler lernen können und es vielleicht nicht tun. Das ist es wirklich. Und wenn du 10 Jahre zurückgehst, habe ich einen großen Geschäftsangriff gemacht, eine Million Dollar. Ich habe einfach das Geschäft gemacht, habe es nicht bezahlt. Ein Typ hat mir gesagt, ich gehe auf den Sand.
Das Multimillionen-Dollar-Hit hat sich verdoppelt, weil ich das Geld verloren habe, aber jetzt muss ich das Geld aus meinem Kofferraum nehmen, um all meine Vendoren zu bezahlen, um mich sauber zu machen, was ich gemacht habe. Integrität ist alles, was ich übrig hatte, richtig? Und so, weißt du, was habe ich von dem gelernt?
Was habe ich von dieser Erfahrung gelernt, weißt du, reflektieren und es nehmen? und es dann verstehen und sagen, ja, dieser Typ könnte ein Schwachsinn sein. Ich möchte vielleicht in dieses Jungs Haus gehen und ihn rauswerfen und ihn wegwerfen. Aber am Ende des Tages muss ich mich immer noch darauf achten, was meine Verantwortung war zu dem, was geschehen ist. Und das ist der Preis. Das ist es.
Und dann geht es weiter zu anderen Dingen. Dinge, die aus deiner Kontrolle sind. Ich hatte einen Herzinfarkt, hatte einen Schmerz, habe den ganzen linken Teil meines Körpers verloren, bin davon zurückgekommen.
hat another stroke last year in the eye and you know you look at those things and you look at what what that does to you in in just a normal world in in your professional life in your personal life um in operating a business you're like what are you trying to tell me you know whether you're Whether you're spiritual, whether you're not, whatever it is.
But you still have to look at it and say, something's trying to tell me something. What is it and what do I do with it? But those are all the mistakes that line up. I wasn't taking good care of my health. I wasn't watching myself. I was overstressed. That's all the dummy nonsense that I've created in my world that pushed me into a position to have a heart attack and to not be healthy.
Okay, what do I learn from it? Ich habe mich verändert. Ich habe mich verändert. Ich habe mich verändert. Ich habe mich verändert. Ich habe mich verändert. Take it from me, try to change now, try to have perspective, try to take your business and do something a little bit different with it.
Still accelerate it, still put your energy into it, but even yourself personally, if you have personal goals, put your energy into it, but don't make the same mistakes that I did. That's where it starts.
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Chapter 3: How has Bobby’s health crisis shaped his personal and business outlook?
Wenn ich schon genug Geld machen kann, mit dem, was ich tue, warum muss ich Kapital in Ordnung nehmen, um zu steigern? Es ist also immer dieses Paradigm, das ein bisschen anders für alle andere ist. Du hast das gemacht, wo du es auf deiner eigenen Seite gebootstrappt hast. Für die Leute, die kommen und sagen, hey, ich will durch Angel Investoren oder VC's und all das gehen.
Warum ist es für dich besser als der VC-Welt?
Weil es zu einfach ist, richtig? Jemand kann eine Idee haben und dann Geld nehmen und dann versuchen, diese Idee zu entwickeln. Aber wenn man sich die Anzahl der Firmen anschaut, die gefehlt haben. Google die Firmen, die letztes Jahr gefehlt haben und schau dir die Anzahl des Kapitals an, die sie gefehlt haben. Hunderts von Millionen von Dollar und du hast gefehlt.
All das bedeutet für mich, dass du eine gute Idee hattest. Look, there are people that are meant to be business people and there are people that are not. I think that everybody has the aptitude to try it and I think everybody should try it. That's not naysaying and making people stay out of it. But there are business people and business mindset, which are, they are non-risk adverse people.
And then you got the risk adverse people and they're the ones who shouldn't be in business because you're too worried about the risk, right? Also ich denke, wenn du Kapital nimmst, ist das Problem, dass du eine tolle Idee hast, aber in meiner Meinung, ist es oft so, dass du eine Krutsche mit dem Kapital nimmst, weil du nicht durch den Schmerz der Geschäftsführung gehst.
und lernen, wie man wächst, und man lernt nicht die Dinge, weil wenn man das Kapital nimmt, kommen diese Leute rein und sie implementieren Leute aus ihrem Geschäft. Sie sagen, wir werden einen Controller einstellen, oder wir werden einen CFO-Manager haben, You're not learning how to manage your books. You're not learning how to pay bills. You're not learning how to read a P&L.
All you had was the idea. So what kind of businessman really are you from the start? And it goes back to the beginning too. A lot of people who start business, typically they work for somebody. So they work for somebody, they learn that business and they say, I could do this on my own. But then what they are is they're a rubber stamp Ich sage immer zu dir, was machst du anders?
Wie änderst du den Markt? Und was machst du besser, dass deine Kompetenz nicht funktioniert? Und viele Leute können diese Frage nicht beantworten. Und weil sie nichts besser machen. Du bist nur die gleiche Firma, competierst im gleichen Markt, mit der gleichen Preisung, mit der gleichen Margin. Na, wie geht es dir darum, dich zu differenzieren?
Differentiate yourself in the market, differentiate yourself in what you offer and differentiate yourself as a person and as a business that makes people look at you and say, wow, I really want to deal with that person. And when you take on money, unfortunately, it stops that vision because you're also curtailed to the way that the people who are giving you the money want you to operate. Yes.
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Chapter 4: Why does Bobby believe bootstrapping is better than taking VC funding?
And then when the adversity hits, it's the person, I say guy, guy or lady. It's the individual that literally says when the adversity hits, what am I going to do about it? Too many people are making excuses and they're not reflecting. You hear me say that a lot. Business is all reflection. What do I do? How do I change? How do I migrate? Everybody makes an excuse.
I can't pay my bills because this guy didn't pay me. Why didn't he pay you? You know, like I get a lot of people that don't pay me, but I look back and I say, well, why didn't he pay us? What can I do different that allows me to get paid on the next one? You know, but we keep chugging forward.
I'm not, okay, yeah, I lost, I'm not getting paid a million dollars over here, but business has to move on. What am I going to do? Go hide in my closet and rock in the corner? You know, but that's, you can't, that's the difference between the two types of people. It's really because there's too many business owners. I mentor a lot and some of these business owners, they're like,
Ah, you know, I just don't know what to do. And like, how about, like, hold on, suck it up, get yourself together and make some decisions and move this forward. Yeah, but that's just going to require me, require you to what? To do some work? You know, look, man, get out there and get to it. You know, this is what you chose to do. Get out there and get to it. Nobody else is going to do it for you.
But they're just, they're the people that are, they're going to fail. They're going to fail.
We talk about this all the time. There's a great quote. It's called, which is Latin for either I will find a way or make a way. And I agree when they go into that. When they have those things and they want to get started or, because you've had intense adversity. You've had, you know, multiple heart attacks. You've had multiple strokes. There was that one thing that we won't talk about publicly.
So you've had those. Wenn du in diese Bereiche reinkommst, was sind die Wege, wie du dich wieder hochbringst? Weil wir können darüber sprechen, wie du dich hochbringst durch die Hüftstapfen oder so. Was sind die Wege, wie du das gefunden hast, wenn du dich physisch verletzt hast, wie du nicht mehr die rechte Seite deines Körpers bewegen kannst?
Was sind die Wege, wie du das gefunden hast, um diese Schwierigkeiten zu überleben?
Ja, das ist eine wirklich gute Frage. Für mich ist es, dass niemand mehr in mich glaubt, als ich in mich selbst glaube. Und es ist, dass ich das realisiere und weiß, dass ich mehr zu prüfen habe als ich selbst. Für mich ist es immer um, es geht nicht um den Geld. Everybody says that. They're like, well, that's easy to say because you already have it.
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Chapter 5: How can entrepreneurs identify if they have the true entrepreneurial mindset?
I also believe those goals change as you get closer to them. It's the never-ending hunt because all of a sudden, I remember when I was like, hey, one day I'm going to make a million dollars. I'm like, this is, and then everything is going to be wonderful and butterflies are going to fly out from part of my body and everything's going to be great. Nope.
And then I was like, okay, I need a wealth ratio. And a wealth ratio, for those of you who are playing at home, if you make $5 a month or your bills are $5 a month and you have $10 in the bank, your wealth ratio is two. Really simple and easy. And I was like, I needed to have two months. And I was like, no, I need two years. So I need five years. So it keeps changing.
To become the best and to become elite at what you've done, there's some tactical steps that you've done. There's some things that you do differently than other business owners do. There's things that are proven for your success. If you sat down and you could talk to you 20 years ago, 25 years ago, what would it be? Okay, these are the tactical things you need to do now.
Um mich selbst zu sprechen, würde ich mir sagen, dass man mehr Aufmerksamkeit zu der Verteilung bietet. Ich denke, dass das super wichtig ist in jedem Geschäft. Verteil dich selbst. Vor 20 Jahren wusste ich nicht, dass ich in mich selbst so viel glaubte, wie ich es heute mache. Ich bin 48 Jahre alt. Vor 20 Jahren war ich fünf Jahre in diesem Geschäft.
Ich glaubte, aber ich war stärker in meinem Glauben, als wenn ich mehr in meinem Glauben kalkuliert wäre. Und es gibt einen bestimmten Unterschied zwischen den beiden. Ja.
Wie kriegst du so eine Kalkulation? Ich denke, das ist das, worauf ich mich drücken möchte, ist diese taktische Kalkulation.
Ja, ich denke, es kommt an die Maturität. Ich weiß nicht, dass ich... Die Maturität verändert sich viel, richtig? Du beginnst zu sichern, du bist nicht so wütend oder du bist nicht so wütend an Dingen, wie du weißt, und das ist einfach nur die Maturität.
Die Taktik kommt durch die Trialen und Tribulationen, nicht nur von dem, was du in der Leben, aber auch von dem, was du in der Geschäftsführung handelst. Und der einzige Weg, um taktisch zu werden, ist, all diese Informationen zu nehmen, sie zu absorbieren und sie zu deinem Vorteil zu verwenden und es als einen Superkraft für dich zu machen. Das ist der einzige Weg, um taktisch zu werden mit dem.
Weil wenn du es alles ignorierst, kannst du es nicht. Du wirst nicht das Wissen haben, weil du es gesehen hast, du warst da, du hast es gemacht. Also, ich denke, das beantwortet deine Frage, aber das ist, du weißt.
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Chapter 6: What are the key operational strategies to improve a struggling business?
Aber die Leute beginnen wirklich zu kommen und sie denken, warte mal, ich werde meinen Job verlieren. Na ja, weil du nicht effizient bist. Die Effizienz braucht das. Das ist das, was dein Job braucht. Wenn du es nicht tun willst, werde ich jemanden finden, der es kann. Und das ist die Realität davon.
Und ich fühle mich, dass die zweite Teil davon ist, dass wir in einem Weltraum leben, in dem jeder will, dass jeder alles zugeschnitten hat. Heutzutage will niemand, dass man diese schwierigen Gespräche mit Leuten hat. Und ich finde, dass die meisten Mitarbeiter inhaltlich gut tun wollen. Sie wollen inhaltlich... um gut für die Firma zu sein.
Und gleichzeitig wollen sie, dass die Firma gut für sie ist. Und sie wollen gepusht werden. Sie wollen wertvoll sein. Und nicht genug Leute machen das, weil es so ist, oh, du weißt, ich weiß, dass du in den letzten fünf Tagen zu spät gekommen bist. Und kannst du wirklich nur das stoppen? Hör auf, wenn du, ich schicke dir dein Geld jetzt, dass du in den letzten fünf Tagen zu spät gekommen bist.
Und das ist die Realität der Situation, weil es zu diesem Punkt als Verbrechen betrachtet wird. Wenn du es nicht magst, kannst du einen anderen Job finden.
100%. Und ich denke, es muss immer so eine harte Konversation sein, jedes Mal. Es gibt auch, wenn du in einer Situation bist, wo du wirklich nicht willst, dass du diese Konversation hast. Kein Problem. Habe nicht diese Konversation mit dem Arbeitgeber. Ich habe keine Angst. Geh zu dem anderen Arbeitgeber und erzähle ihm, dass er seine Kinder nicht füllen kann.
Das sind die zwei Konversationen, die du haben kannst. Weil das ist, was wir hier wirklich tun. Wir sind hier, um Geld zu machen.
Absolut. Und wenn du nicht... And one person's a drag, you're dragging down everybody else, you know, and then you're making that one person becomes a cancer because they're making the other employees miserable because they got to pick up the slack for that other employee. And it's just, you're creating a culture that doesn't exist, you know, that shouldn't exist.
And you need to have, that's where the culture side of the business comes into effect.
So how, I was just going to go there. Because once you get through the process, you know, how do you build or redesign a culture when you come in? Because people think, well, I'm going to write some things on the wall or get some posters and that's going to be our culture and it's going to be great.
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Chapter 7: How should business leaders build and maintain a strong company culture?
Chapter 8: How does Bobby maintain resilience and motivation after multiple setbacks?
So that's where you dive in because you can fix anything through operations because it's the operations that get messy, that spill over, that are what are costing you the money.
And mainly because what I see is a lot, not a lot, but some business owners that I do consult with, they start making money and they think that being a business owner is sitting back, putting your feet up on the table or going golfing every single day and letting the business run itself where, look, you got to be in it, you know, no matter what size business.
So when you look at operations, do you see a differentiation between operations and systems? Are those two different things for you?
Einer braucht den anderen, aber ja, das sind zwei verschiedene Dinge in meiner Meinung, richtig? Denn deine Operationen brauchen Systeme, die in der Lage sind, dass deine Operationen folgen müssen. Und einer kann nicht den anderen fahren. Also müssen deine Systeme deine Operationen fahren. Und das geht in den Prozess und Procedure. Deine Systeme sind dein Prozess und Procedure.
Und wenn das nicht klar ist, And really delineated and really laid out for your team, then your team isn't going to be able to do what you're expected to do because they're going to be a mess. They're going to be like, when is my next turn?
If you're handling something on the legal side and I'm handling something on the operations side, but your legal side has to come first and mine comes second, if there's not a clear process and procedure about how that flows, how do I know when I'm supposed to do my job when your job's done?
So how do you build those out when you're working with people? Because the biggest thing, I know you came in on the financial side. Whenever I've helped people out, I always go mentally first. I'm like, okay, who's showing up? What type of version of you is showing up? And then we can pivot from there.
Because I've always thought that if I give all the strategies and all the, everything that's made me on relative success over here to someone who's mentally not showing up in an effective manner, it doesn't matter what I, it doesn't matter what I do.
So when you're working with the human behavior side and you're working with that and you're trying to build those procedures and walk those through that, how do you deal with that?
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