In this conversation, Ross talks to Steve Bannon, the chief strategist from Donald Trump’s first term and part of the original MAGA movement. Despite his clashes with new factions emerging in the Republican Party, Bannon argues that Trump is still central to advancing a populist agenda.Editors’ note: This episode originally aired on the “Matter of Opinion” podcast on Jan. 31, 2025.(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.) Thoughts? Email us at [email protected]. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
Full Episode
Hey, listeners, it's Ross Douthat. We're hard at work developing my new show, which is going to be called Interesting Times, a reference to the curse disguised as a blessing, or maybe the blessing disguised as a curse. May you live in interesting times, which we are. And our first few episodes will be coming out soon.
But before then, I wanted to reshare the interviews that started it all, a set of conversations that attempt to map out the new political order with some of the people at the forefront. So enjoy, and please subscribe to Interesting Times wherever you get your podcasts. All right, Steve, you ready? Born ready, sir. I know, born fighting. If we don't have a fight, why are we populists?
If you want to deliver a long monologue about the genius of Elon Musk and Silicon Valley, if you've had AI write one for you, we can do that too.
No, I've got a very specific take on the oligarchs. I'll share it with you today.
From New York Times Opinion, I'm Ross Douthat. On this week's show, we're continuing my one-on-one conversations with figures who represent different, potentially clashing worldviews within the new Trump administration. Two weeks ago, I talked to venture capitalist Mark Andreessen about the newest faction in Trump world, the so-called tech right.
My guest this week, Steve Bannon, represents what I might call Trumpism classic, the populist and nationalist movement that brought Trump to power in the first place and that aspires to exert significant influence in Trump's second administration.
Indeed, a lot of executive orders we've already seen from this White House on immigration, reshaping the federal bureaucracy and more are clearly stamped by Bannon's populist anti-establishment aspirations. Bannon is also emerging as one of the most vocal critics from the right of Elon Musk and other members of the tech right. And so we're going to talk a lot about that brewing conflict.
Steve, welcome to the show.
Ross, thank you very much, but I got to correct you right out of the box. Please don't tell me, because I read your column, that you didn't consider Marc Andreessen a part of the right. Marc Andreessen and the oligarchs are nothing but a bunch of progressive leftists.
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