In this episode, Garrett and Payton dive into the infamous case of Kristin Smart, and how a podcast raised a cold case from the grave. Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/themwmh Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/murderwithmyhusband/ Discount Codes: https://mailchi.mp/c6f48670aeac/oh-no-media-discount-codes Watch on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@murderwithmyhusband Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/into-the-dark/id1662304327 Listen on spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/36SDVKB2MEWpFGVs9kRgQ7?si=f5224c9fd99542a7 Case sources CBSNews.com - https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kristin-smart-verdict-paul-flores-guilty-48-hours/ NYTimes.com - https://www.nytimes.com/article/kristin-smart-case-timeline.html KSBY.com - https://www.ksby.com/news/kristin-smart-case/witness-breaks-down-on-stand-during-kristin-smart-murder-trial SantaMariaTimes.com - https://santamariatimes.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/unsealed-court-documents-reveal-search-warrant-details-in-kristin-smart-murder-case/article_60ae0c4c-5c8b-52a9-962e-7c25b3ef4160.html LATimes.com - https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-a-cold-case-a-haunting-mystery-20160907-snap-story.html People.com - https://people.com/crime/kristin-smart-case-verdict/ FoxNews.com - https://www.foxnews.com/us/paul-flores-sentencing-kristin-smart-killing-delayed-several-months NPR.org - https://www.npr.org/2023/03/10/1162789637/kristin-smart-murder-paul-flores-sentencing Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Chapter 1: What is the case of Kristin Smart about?
And we keep doing what we do because honestly, you never know who will hear an episode and have the missing piece of the puzzle. Das war genau das, was zu einem anderen Podcaster, Chris Lambert, passiert, als er einen jahrelangen Fall über eine junge Frau namens Kristen Smart beobachtete. In 1996 fuhr Kristen aus ihrem College Campus in San Luis Obispo, Kalifornien.
But when there wasn't enough evidence against the primary suspect, the suspect that they knew from the very first day of the crime, the investigation slowed. That was until Chris Lambert decided to make a podcast on this case and give it a new life.
He encouraged witnesses to come out of the woodwork, to speak up about their connection to the case, and ultimately he helped get justice for Kristen Smart's family, nearly three, Das ist so cool. So in the mid 90s in California's San Joaquin Valley, just a little northwest of San Francisco, we have a teenage Kristen Smart who is thriving.
She's crushing all of her high school classes, A's and B's across the board. She's a proficient athlete who loves swimming and skiing. She's also done a good amount of traveling for a kid her age in the 90s. We're talking about trips to London, Venezuela. She even spent one summer as a camp counselor in Hawaii.
Kristen war super ambitioniert und immer auf die nächste Abenteuer gebeten, weshalb sie, wenn es an der Zeit kam, eine Universität zu wählen, ihre Eltern begten, sie zu einer Schule in den Völkischen Inseln zu lassen. Aber beide von Kristen's Eltern riefen zurück. Sie dachten nicht, dass das ein sicherer Ort war, um zur Schule zu gehen.
Sie sagten, hey, wir würden sich viel besser fühlen, wenn du nur in der Nähe der Universität gehst, wo sie sie mit einem schnellen Fahrrad fahren können. The campus they preferred was one with a really low crime rate, Cal Poly in San Luis Obispo. So Kristen didn't love the idea, but if her parents were paying, how could she argue?
At least she'd be out there on her own, starting a new chapter of her life. A day that finally came when she moved into the campus dorms in the fall of 1995. Like most college students, Kristen saw Cal Poly as a way to sort of reinvent herself.
When she wasn't studying for her architecture degree, the 18-year-old Kristen was dying her hair from blonde to brunette or trying out new nicknames for herself like Roxy or Trixie. Aber Kristen hat auch ein bisschen zu tun, wahrscheinlich weil sie in einer Gruppe stand. Kristen war alt für eine Mädchen. Sie war sechs Fuß eins, um es genau zu sagen.
Und während Kristen hart arbeitete, um die soziale Szene bei Cal Poly zu navigieren, hat sie auch mit der Schwierigkeit ihrer Klassen zu tun. Kristen brachte ihre Eltern oft zu, wenn sie sich fragte, ob Cal Poly der richtige Ort für sie war. Sie war in einigen ihrer Klassen hinterhergelaufen, die nicht ihr waren, aber sie fand sie zu herausfordernd und sie war ein bisschen heimisch.
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Chapter 2: What role did the podcast play in reviving the case?
And if you're confused like, well now Margarita doesn't have keys, I'm assuming they thought that Margarita would be able to get someone to let her in at 10.30 rather than in the early morning hours when Kristen came home.
Yeah, I know that makes sense.
Okay. Oh, she's six feet tall? Six foot one. Dang. But reports of what Kristen was doing there were sort of murky. Some said they saw Kristen that night flirting with a bunch of boys at the party, maybe even kissing one of the basketball players, maybe even pulling one into the bathroom. And others said they saw her chugging tequila.
Others said, no, she didn't have a drink in her hand that night at all.
Isn't that so interesting? Eyewitness statements. How you can get so many different eyewitness statements. It sucks. Yeah. Because it makes everything very confusing.
But there was one thing that several party goers agreed on. And it was that at one point in the night, there was a loud crash in the hallway at this party. And when everyone gathered around, Kristen Smart was on the floor. And a guy... Okay. Okay. He's pretty quiet, okay? He doesn't talk to too many people at the party. He mostly plays pool and hangs out by himself.
But for a quiet guy like Paul, he sure does stir up a lot of gossip among his peers. For starters, Cal Poly was a bit out of Paul's depth. He never really had good grades or SAT scores in high school, but people said he got in because the university gave a little grace to applicants who were local to the area. Okay.
One night he drunkenly climbed a trellis up to one girl's balcony outside her apartment and when she demanded him to leave, he refused and then she called the police. Apparently this wasn't an isolated incident. Paul was known to inappropriately hit on other female students. In fact, that was kind of sort of the only thing people on campus knew about Paul Flores.
He literally would show up to all the parties and then just act creepy. He had no friends. The girls were just... He literally earned nicknames around campus as Chester the Molester and Scary Paul.
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Chapter 3: Who was Kristen Smart and what was her background?
Paul.
Paul Flores. Tim, ein Senior, wusste, dass Paul seltsam war, aber er wusste nicht viel über Pauls Reputation, weil er nichts davon denkt, dass Paul diese beiden Mädchen zurücknimmt. Während dieses Rückkehrs erkennt Cheryl, dass Kristen viel mehr davon ist, als sie ist.
So when Kristen keeps needing to stop and Paul sort of supports her, she finds it strange that during this, like as Kristen's taking more time, Paul says, oh, oh, Cheryl, just go on. Just go on without us. I can walk her home. You just go ahead. Und schlussendlich kommt Cheryl zu der Tür ihres Gebäudes und sagt Gute Nacht an Kristen und Paul.
Und an diesem Punkt kann sie sehen, dass Kristen nur 40 Meter entfernt von der vorderen Tür ihres Gebäudes ist. Also denkt sie, okay, ich habe ihr Haus sicher, sie ist nur 40 Meter entfernt von ihrer Entfernung. Und sie sagt Paul, wirst du sicher machen, dass sie in ihr Zimmer kommt? Und er sagt, ja, ja, ich werde. Aber dann macht Paul etwas wirklich seltsames. Total auf Brand für ihn.
Okay, er unterstützt Christen sehr aus. Und er sagt, hey, Cheryl, willst du mir einen Kuss geben, bevor du in dein Dorm gehst? Und sie ist so, nein, Paul. Und er sagt, okay, wie about just a hug? Und sie ist so, nein. Und dann schaut sie, als Paul zurück zu Christen geht und sie zu ihrer Dormitur führt. Am nächsten Morgen, am 25.
Mai, fragt Margarita, warum Christen, ihr Freund, ihre Karten nicht zurückgegeben hat. Die Karten, die sie ihr die Nacht vorher gegeben hat. Sie geht in den Hall zu Christens Wohnung und knallt, nur gibt es keine Antwort. Und es ist nicht bis Christens Freundin später zurückkommt, dass Margarita lernt, dass Christens Seite der Wohnung unabhängig ist.
Es sieht nicht so aus, als hätte sie sie jemals zurückgebracht. Her purse, her ID, her keys, all the things she left there are still in the same spot.
But, okay, let me make sure I'm getting this right. But the other girls saw them going back?
To the door, towards the door.
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Chapter 4: What happened on the night of Kristen's disappearance?
Sie war mit ein paar Männern und sie trinkte. Sie ist wahrscheinlich irgendwo. Wir können nicht viel darüber machen.
So, he had six days to do... Whatever he wanted. Even though police knew that he was the last person she was seen with. And get this, when they do talk to him, they don't check his dorm room either. That won't happen for another 10 days.
It doesn't matter at that point.
Wenn ich dir erzähle, wie seine erste Interview mit den Polizisten war, wirst du sagen, warum hat es sie noch vier Tage gedauert, um diese Kinderzimmer zu suchen. Die Polizei macht Paul jeden Schritt durch, den er am Abend gemacht hat. Sie sind durch den Gratwein gegangen und haben festgestellt, dass sie das letzte Mal mit Paul gesehen wurde. Sie warten diese alarmierenden Tage und holen ihn ein.
Und sie interviewen ihn ein paar mehr Mal in dieser Woche. Und seine Geschichte bleibt nie konsistent, von der ersten Zeit an. But he does manage to maintain that the last time he saw Kristen was after she said goodnight and walked towards her dorm alone that evening. And here's what's even more problematic than the story changes. Paul shows up to that first interview.
That's days after she went missing. With scratches all over his hands and a very obvious black eye.
Holy crap.
And he tells the police, I don't actually know how I got this black eye and these scratches. I just woke up with it. That's what he tells police initially. Okay. And so police pull him in the next day and they're like, hey, hey, how did you get this black guy really? And the next day he says, oh, actually, I got it playing basketball over the weekend.
And then when they pull him in the third interview before they've even checked.
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Chapter 5: How did the police handle the investigation?
You're telling me, he said all this and he was never arrested.
Nope. So after that interview, Paul's parents hire him a lawyer, which was definitely necessary because they have their prime suspect. Keep in mind, for the first month of the investigation, Cal Poly police are also tracking this case solo. It wasn't until after the first month that they finally handed the case over to the San Luis Obispo County Sheriff's Department.
Und sie kommen rein und sagen, hey, Paul ist unser Typ. Primär, nachdem er gehört hat, was er zu seinem Ruhemann gemacht hat. Der, wo er sagte, Kristen war zu Hause mit seinen Eltern. Aber es hat sie noch zwei Monate gedauert, um endlich zu den Flores zu kommen, 17 Meilen weg. Und sie bringen keine Kadaver-Tüten mit ihnen.
Sie bringen keine Forensik-Team oder sogar Paul Search oder seinen Vater Rubens Auto. Das ist ein großer Fehler, weil gleich danach einer ihrer Trucks getradet wurde und der andere wurde verurteilt. So, gleich nachdem Paul Flores' Familienhaus gesucht wird, wird einer ihrer Trucks getradet und der andere wird verurteilt.
Das ist so erschreckend.
Oh, okay. Ja. While the proceedings were sort of kept under lock and key, I do know that there weren't any charges filed against Paul Flores at that time. So they basically flirt with the idea and decide not to do it. Even though police know they have their guy. So for the next six or seven months, they keep interviewing witnesses.
It's still not moving the needle, which is why in May of 1997, the sheriff made a statement to the press. One that will actually become a pretty big screw up in this case. He says they have interviewed almost a hundred people. This is what he's saying to the public. Und alles führt zu Paul Flores. Also outen sie ihn.
Aber, und ich quote, wir brauchen Paul Flores, um uns zu erzählen, was mit Kristen Smart passiert ist. Also, ohne etwas von Mr. Flores zu verurteilen, sehe ich uns nicht, diesen Fall zu beenden.
Er hat das öffentlich gesagt.
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Chapter 6: What were the eyewitness accounts of the party?
That is what the police basically just said.
And Paul hears them loud and clear. So when the smarts sue Paul Flores in a wrongful death civil lawsuit, because at this point everyone knows he did it. He already has a strategy. Say nothing. Plead the fifth. And when he's deposed by the smarts lawyer six months later for that civil suit, he invokes his fifth amendment 27 times.
Holy crap.
He's like, nope, I'm not talking. But it turns out, telling Paul Flores to keep his mouth shut wasn't the only ball dropped by police. Apparently. Da gab es ein riesiges Stück Beweise, das sie etwa drei Monate nach der Entfernung von Kristen erhielt. Und es war eine, die komplett durch die Kratzer gefallen ist. Also, das braucht ein bisschen Hintergrund. Aber als Kristen im Mai 1996 entfiel,
Paul's parents, Susan and Ruben, were separated and living apart. And Susan and Ruben become a big part of this case. I'm just going to spoil it for you because a lot of people believe that both of them were involved in helping cover up. They believe that Paul did something to Kristen and then called his parents and his parents helped him get away with the crime.
So Susan and Ruben, his mother and father, are separated and living apart. But four months later, they thought, maybe we should give it another shot. Susan put her house up for rent and moved back in with Ruben for a bit. And that's when Susan decides to rent their home out to a young couple. And they move in that fall. Okay, this is the home that Paul Flores would have come back to.
So she's now renting this home out to a young couple after Christens disappeared. But one day, while the mother of this young couple is washing her car in the driveway, she sees something on the ground that catches her eye. And it's an earring. It's not just a simple diamond on a post.
No way Kristen's earring is just sitting there.
It's a very specific earring. Das ist so in... Okay. dass dieses Haus noch nicht mit Kadaver-Tüten gesucht worden ist. Auch wenn Paul seiner Freundin gesagt hat, dass sie bei seinen Eltern zu Hause war. Ja. Weil dieses junge Paar die Verbindung zwischen Susan und Ruben und der Ausbeutung von Kristen Smart weiß, entscheiden sie, den Eingang an die Sheriff-Departement zu stellen.
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Chapter 7: Who was Paul Flores and what was his involvement?
No, they never searched it.
Es war nicht. Das war Susannes Haus und die Polizei hat nur Rubens Haus gesucht. Also hat sich dieses Haus noch nie gesucht, aber das Eingang wurde in der Fahrt gefunden, was essentiell bedeutet, dass es zwei Orte gab, um Paul zu verstecken, aber nur eines wurde gesucht. Er sagte, es war in meinen Eltern Haus, aber sie waren separat. Sie haben nur Rubens gesucht und Susannes ungesucht.
In fact, Susans Haus wasn't searched until long after that earring was turned in, in March of 1997. This was 10 months after Kristen's disappearance. But the police didn't find anything of note. And it would take three more years before they returned to search her property.
Oh, at that point, why even search it?
Now, over that time, Susan and Ruben did call it off and Susan was back living in the home where the earring was found. And on June 19th, 2000, there was a knock on Susan's door. And this time it was the FBI's evidence response team with a search warrant. Actually, the warrant even gave them permission to dig up the backyard. Only they didn't follow through with it for whatever reason.
2007.
She went missing in 1996. They show up to this house again with ground penetrating radar. Only they don't find anything of note then either.
Guys, it's 11 years later.
So you can imagine how frustrating this entire process must be for the smart family to feel like this entire family has something to do with their daughter's disappearance, probable murder. And they are so close yet so far from finding any real sign of their daughter because this entire family has pled the fifth.
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Chapter 8: What are the repercussions of mishandled investigations?
Also I want to point out that 2019 is before Peyton and I even started the show. So that's just impressive of itself because that's still so early.
So basically what Chris did is he's like, I'm going to look into this case. He didn't even really know that much about it. He looks into it and he's like, wait, you're telling me we we probably know where her body was at one point. We know who did it. We know who she was last seen with. And this is unsolved. And Paul Flores is free. So he decides to make a podcast.
He's like, if I can spread the word, maybe the police will do something. And I'm gonna be honest, the podcast was very successful. A lot of people started coming out of the woodwork to say, hey, we listened to your podcast, it was released episode by episode, and I have information about Paul Flores. And they wanted to share it with Chris.
So this is when a lot more victims of Paul Flores, not murder victims, but sexual assault victims, roofie victims, creepy dates, creepy work stories. This is when all of these women start coming forward.
For example, in February 2020, about six months after the podcast was released, and honestly, a couple months later, Gerrit and I were going to start murder with my husband, Chris got a really fascinating tip. Apparently, just a few nights after police conducted their last search on Ruben Flores' house, a neighbor noticed something strange.
Ruben and his ex-wife Susan, along with her new partner, all stayed up throughout the night after police had just searched it, doing something underneath Rubens deck. So the police search their house, they leave, and then a neighbor notices all three of these adults doing something underneath Rubens deck.
I cannot believe that the parents are involved. What? Allegedly, I'm going to assume. What? Evil human beings? That's...
There were also a lot of accounts that came from women, like I said, who had had encounters with the now 42-year-old Paul Flores. Apparently, there were a number of women who Paul had made inappropriate passes at, who he had tried to kiss, who he tried to force himself upon. An ex-girlfriend of his even said he was physically and verbally abusive throughout their relationship.
Now, Chris also made sure to share these tips with the police. Okay, he wasn't just making the podcast. He was taking everything he was learning to the police. I mean, his goal was to find out what happened to Kristen once and for all to make sure the right person ended up behind bars.
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