The Chuck ToddCast
‘The Diplomat’ Reaction: The Inside Story Of Netflix’s Political Thriller
28 May 2025
Chuck Todd opens with two issues he calls “dead rail” issues; issues that voters care about but don’t vote on… campaign finance reform and the national debt. He explains why both parties aren’t incentivized to address either issue, and provides a brief update on the latest developments for the upcoming midterm and presidential elections.Then, he sits down with acclaimed television writer and producer Debora Cahn, the creative force behind both "The West Wing" and Netflix's hit series "The Diplomat." Cahn shares behind-the-scenes insights from her time in Aaron Sorkin's writers' room, revealing how the team worked to make "The West Wing" realistic and even infused elements of musical theater into the show. She discusses the origins and development of "The Diplomat," explaining how her experience working on "Homeland" prepared her for tackling international diplomacy, and how COVID-19 unexpectedly helped with the show's early development process.They delve into how real-world events have shaped "The Diplomat's" narrative, particularly Russia's invasion of Ukraine, which completely changed the show's plot trajectory. Cahn explores the challenges of creating "news adjacent" content in today's rapidly changing political landscape, where she notes that satire feels off-limits for this decade. She also discusses her approach to writing strong but complex female characters, the differences between working with Shonda Rhimes versus Aaron Sorkin, and how she uses storytelling to give voice to government workers. The interview touches on everything from using real UK embassy locations for filming to incorporating recent political events and the casting of Michael McKean in a Biden-inspired role.Finally, he answers listeners’ questions in the Ask Chuck segment, addressing topics like the best path to learning journalism, whether Kamala Harris could lose the California gubernatorial race and how to maximize black voter turnout in the south.Timeline:00:00 Introduction00:30 The “third-rail” issues in American politics that are untouchable01:45 Medicaid is a lifeline for more than just poor people02:20 Dead rail issues are issues that you can ignore and voters don’t care03:10 Voters agree on need for campaign finance reform, but don’t vote on it05:00 Both parties only care about the national debt when they’re out of power07:00 Voters don’t care about campaign finance or the debt until it affects them09:00 The Republicans are more fiscally irresponsible than Democrats10:30 New campaign ad rolls out with purely AI generated people11:30 Senator Jeff Merkeley may step down12:30 Senator Ed Markey may face primary challenge13:00 Rahm Emmanuel attending Iowa event, could it regain 1st primary status?14:30 Debora Cahn joins the Chuck ToddCast! 15:45 How did she create "The Diplomat" and "West Wing"? 17:00 How important was it to make the West Wing realistic? 19:00 How did you infuse musical theater into West Wing? 20:15 What was the writers' room like? 22:30 How long has she been working on The Diplomat? 25:15 How did working on Homeland prepare her for The Diplomat? 28:30 The origin of The Diplomat 30:00 Covid actually HELPED with early development 31:00 Were the characters modeled off real people? 33:45 Using a real embassy for the set 36:30 Has the narrative arc changed from the original vision? 38:45 Russia's invasion of Ukraine changed the show's entire plot 40:45 Using the PM of the UK character to caricature Trump 42:15 Satire is off the table for this decade 43:30 Giving voice to government workers via storytelling 47:00 Has the UK foreshadowed trends in US politics? 48:15 The downside to being "news adjacent"? 49:45 Writing about strong women but making it messy 51:15 Working with Shonda Rhimes vs Aaron Sorkin 53:30 Whose story would she like to tell? 56:00 Traditional journalism vs. influencer culture 56:45 The Newsroom wasn't an accurate portrayal of TV journalism 58:00 What events from the past few months does she want to incorporate? 59:45 Michael McKean is great as the Biden character57:50 Chuck's thoughts on the interview with Debora Cahn 58:20 Ask Chuck 58:40 Is college or an apprenticeship better for learning journalism? 1:02:30 Could Kamala Harris lose in the primary for CA governor? 1:06:05 What can Democrats do to maximize the black vote in the south? 1:11:50 NBA playoffs reaction
Full Episode
Hello there. Happy Wednesday. It's Chuck Todd. Another episode of the Chuck Todd cast. So as some of you know, I have a new weekly sub stack. It's basically a weekly call. And this week I used... I use that space to talk about two issues that I actually get a lot of questions about that I don't talk a lot about here because, frankly, they're what I call dead rail issues.
And what do I mean by a dead rail issue? Well, as you know, we talk about third rail issues in politics a lot. And what do we mean by a third rail? Well, it goes back to the whole idea of electrified rail and subway systems. It's an issue that you're not supposed to touch or it will literally electrocute you, politically speaking.
So for a long time, the most famous third rail issue was Social Security. You touch it, you die politically. I would argue Medicare has joined that club. And I think after the 2026 midterms, We will say Medicaid is also a part of that, that Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid are all now third rail issues. But we'll get a final confirmation on Medicaid after the 2026 midterms.
They're untouchables. They're basically popular across the board. They got 60 to 70 percent acceptance rates with the public. They're seen – if you want to call them entitlements, safety nets, but they're seen as things that – they're no longer nice-to-haves. They're must-haves as far as the public is concerned.
And any serious talk about reform usually ends up with somebody losing an election because reform for many people is code for cutting back, and that is one – And look, on Medicaid, I think the reason why this has become such a popular issues, you know, when it first came about, it was thought of as just welfare for the poor, that this was was health care for poor people.
Medicaid is a lifeline for a lot of people now. At the end of life, you've run out of money. There's Medicaid. You're you're you're. You're in the middle-aged brackets, if you will, in your 50s. You've got kids in college. You've got parents that are aging. You can't afford to support them all, and so Medicaid is an important safety net for a lot of people.
I think that's why Medicaid itself is going to be considered a third rail. But what about the opposite of third rail issues? I'm going to call these issues. These are issues you can ignore, abuse or exploit even and suffer no political consequences. It's issues that voters barely notice unless you ask them about it. and they end up eventually shrugging them off. I call these dead rails.
You can touch it all you want. You can sleep on that rail and nothing's gonna buzz you. So I'm gonna talk about two of them. And there are two issues that actually should be urgent priorities. There are two issues I get a lot of questions about, one from one side of the aisle and one from the other. But I would argue they have bipartisan blame written all over them.
One is mostly championed by the left, one mostly by the right. And both are really about right and wrong, not left and right. But both are stuck in a permanent cycle of neglect. I'm talking about campaign finance reform and the debt or fiscal responsibility. So let's start with campaign finance reform. When I first started in this business, a big conversation was all about soft money and
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