Scott Payne is a retired FBI Special Agent who spent 28 years in law enforcement investigating cases against drug trafficking organizations, human traffickers, outlaw motorcycle clubs, gangs, public corruption, and domestic terrorists. He is the co-author of the book "Code Name: Pale Horse: How I Went Undercover to Expose America’s Nazis" and the subject of the podcast "White Hot Hate: Agent Pale Horse," both created in collaboration with journalist Michelle Shephard. https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Code-Name-Pale-Horse/Scott-Payne/9781668032909 https://link.mgln.ai/63oNQg Join Visible by visiting visible.com/rogan and experience all-digital wireless with nothing to hide, with plans starting at $25/mo. Visit LifeLock.com/JOEROGAN to save up to 40% off. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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the joe rogan experience train by day joe rogan podcast by night all day You had a crazy fucking life, man. Like a really crazy life. So to get everybody up to speed right from the beginning, you spent 25 years undercover working for the FBI in the Klan, Nazi organizations, and biker gangs. And then some, yes sir. What a crazy, crazy life that is.
First of all, how did you first get started doing that?
Uh, good question. I grew up in South Carolina, um, played ball, all that stuff. I, I was always kind of a, I mean, if you look back, not trying to be cocky, whatever, cause that's not it. You've had plenty of people on this show that are complete badasses. Um, but I was kind of a bully of bullies. I didn't, I always looked out. I liked the underdog. Um, I bounced in college.
Uh, so I was already learning that gift to gab, um, and fight techniques and stuff like that. And then I got, I became a cop because when I was in college, I took a course, I'm taking electives. I went to college. So I'd have four more years to figure out what I was going to do because I didn't know what I was doing.
except partying except you know i did three years i was good at partying um but uh i had an elective that was criminal justice and man i really liked it um psychology was always a strong thing for me but it took a back seat and i ended up coming out with a major in criminal justice and a minor in psychology but during those criminal justice courses i was like
At first, for a fleeting moment, I said, I'm going to be an attorney. Yeah, I'll be an attorney. And then I realized I'd be a terrible attorney. I said, because if I was the defense attorney and they said they did it, I would probably just walk up and go, they did it. Right. That's not going to get me any clients.
And if I was the prosecutor, I pictured me being like Sam Kennison, grabbing him and going, say it. You did it. So I'm like, yeah, that's probably not the best role for me. And I did a ride along with cops and the department. And that was it. But once I got in to law enforcement, I was uniform patrol for three years. I was just so fascinated with undercover. I don't know what it was.
I can't really remember doing the book. I've tried to dive back in. People ask. I don't really remember. I just know that. I loved undercover movies, period. If it was a biker undercover, I don't care how cheesy it was. I love them all. And then one of my mentors at the sheriff's office, he was actually the world's strongest man in the late 80s after Kazmaier. Oh, wow.
He was a former Marine and big dude. And he... on a task force had gone undercover in some biker gangs. And, man, I wanted to be a biker. I grew up on motorcycles, and that just started taking off from there.
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