The A.C.L.U. v. Trump 2.0
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What lawsuits did the ACLU file during Trump's first term?
The executive director of the ACLU is Anthony Romero. Romero has held the job since 2001, September 2001 to be exact. He started in the role just a few days before the September 11th attack. Romero has done the job under four presidents. Since Donald Trump's second inauguration, the ACLU has filed suits to block executive orders ending birthright citizenship, defunding gender-affirming health care, and much more. I spoke with Anthony Romero last week. Let's begin with the most essential question, legal and political. Are we less than a month into the Trump administration, the second Trump administration, on the brink of a constitutional crisis?
I think we could very well be there. We're at the Rubicon. Whether we've crossed it is yet to be determined. Well, describe what the Rubicon is.
What is the Rubicon?
The Rubicon is the flagrant abuse of judicial power. If the Trump administration decides to run the gauntlet and openly defy a judicial order in a way that is not about an appeal, it's not about clarifying, it's not about getting a congressional fix, but an open defiance to a judicial order, then I think we're there.
What are the issues where that's a possibility?
Well, there are 40 cases, David. There have been a bunch of lawsuits around the Doge and whether or not the Doge and Elon Musk have overextended their power.
What is the significance of the Rubicon in this context?
This is the Department of Government Efficiency led by Elon Musk.
Exactly. There are some who say that they're violating the Privacy Act, that they're accessing personal identifiable information. on American citizens, their social security numbers, their tax returns, all sorts of information that are in the government data banks. Now, whether or not they've actually accessed that, whether there's harm, whether or not the individuals who are bringing cases have standing, those are all to be determined by the judges. But there are about four cases, I think, that have been filed there thus far. Then there's all the questions around shutting down or the closure of grants from the federal government, from USAID and other agencies. This is considered illegal by legal experts because Congress appropriates the money.
Right.
It's not the president's power to rewrite the appropriations from Congress.
Now, you have the vice president of the United States saying the following. Judges are not allowed to control the executive's legitimate property. power, right? What say you as the head of the ACLU?
Legitimate. That's the word that jumped at me. And that's what we're arguing about, whether it's a legitimate use of the executive branch power. And it's not a new controversy. I mean, we've had these debates before. The unitary executive, remember that back in the days of George Bush. And of course, most presidents have tried to exert a much more muscular approach to executive power than I think the courts or Congress often give them the room for.
We've seen the Republican Party become the party of Trump, and its awareness that if they defy Trump in any way, they're going to lose their seat doesn't give you a lot of confidence, does it?
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Chapters
6 chapters
1
What lawsuits did the ACLU file during Trump's first term?
1:24–2:57
2
What is the significance of the Rubicon in this context?
2:57–6:49
3
What are the potential repercussions of repealing birthright citizenship?
6:49–10:05
4
How can the ACLU respond to a constitutional crisis?
10:05–11:01
5
What happens if the Trump administration defies judicial orders?
11:01–17:00
6
What strategies could be used to mobilize people against executive overreach?
17:00–36:16
Speakers
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