Video Gamers Podcast
Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 - Hanging with the Senior Game Designer!! - Gaming Podcast
Thu, 13 Feb 2025
Gaming hosts Josh and Ryan are STOKED to be able to bring you this unbelievable episode! We got to hang out with the senior game designer for Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2. Warhorse Studios was kind enough to let us chat with them about what it was like to develop this game, talk about the insane release and response to one of gaming's biggest releases for 2025, get some insight into how they made this incredible video game and soooo much more. If you ever wanted to know what it’s like to release a major title in the gaming industry, this is the episode for you! It’s a gaming packed episode from the Video Gamers Podcast! Thanks to our MYTHIC Supporters: Redletter, Ol’ Jake, Disratory and Gaius Connect with the show: Support us on Patreon: patreon.com/videogamerspod Join our Gaming Discord: https://discord.gg/Dsx2rgEEbz Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/videogamerspod/ Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/VideoGamersPod Subscribe to us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU12YOMnAQwqFZEdfXv9c3Q Visit us on the web: https://videogamerspod.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Chapter 1: What is the main topic of this episode?
Hello fellow gamers and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 is taking the world by storm and it's the hottest release so far in 2025. Highly anticipated with a fantastic reception, we've been playing it but we aren't quite ready for the deep dive yet. What we do have is something incredible for you.
Chapter 2: Who did Josh and Ryan interview for this episode?
We had the opportunity, nay, the joy of interviewing one of the game designers from Warhorse Studios who played a large role in the making of the game. This is an incredible interview, and we are so excited to share it with you. But first, some introductions are in order. I am your host, Josh.
And joining me, you'll find him sleeping in strangers' beds, stealing horses, and failing miserably at brewing potions.
it's ryan i was gonna say i was so annoyed today because i my i'm like falling asleep and i'm like this is just like real life is this real life sim and i'm just falling asleep as i walk through and i'm like oh there's a bed it looks like you know nobody's around and then next thing i know i wake up and everybody's trying to kill me again every time i go to everybody just wants to kill me
Yeah, yeah. They get really mad if you're sleeping in their bed. I mean, rightfully so. If you found somebody sleeping in your bed, you probably would have... Man, I was tired, bro. I was just tired. Dude, Kingdom Come Deliverance 2, we have been playing it. There is so much to talk about in this game. I mean, our entire community is talking about it. The internet's talking about it.
I mean, this is one of the biggest releases that has come out in a while. And we have been playing it almost every day, but it's a monster of a game and we are not ready to do the deep dive just yet. So we're going to keep playing. But dude, we had such an insanely cool opportunity to actually talk to one of the game designers.
and kind of get the inside scoop on the development of the game, what it's like to release a game like this to the world, and the anticipation and nervousness, a behind-the-curtain look at game development. I mean, what an awesome time this was, Ryan. We had it all.
What more can you say about this, dude? Dude, it was awesome. You definitely want to stay tuned and listen to the whole thing. Not only did we get kind of that behind the curtain, this guy was just totally awesome, gave us some really kind of cool details about game development, what goes into it, what his opinions are. So it was something that you're not going to hear from a lot of places.
So it was definitely an interesting thing.
Yeah. And we made a new friend. I mean, we're practically best friends now too. Basically. That's how awesome this was. What? Did we just become best friends? Yup. Do you want to go do karate in the garage? Yup. So listen, we're going to get to that interview in just a minute. But Ryan, it's been a while. We've been so busy. We haven't done any housekeeping in a while.
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Chapter 3: What was the journey of developing Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2?
noggin we has been playing rivals with us one of the best hulk players i have seen in rivals it like honestly ever like maybe it's just you know we're not at that high level but like noggin is just a clutch hulk man an honestly amazing guy so thank you noggin for supporting the show as well um we really we appreciate it and we appreciate you also and then ryan i think we've got something else i
think we do um something that is absolutely amazing that we love to see and receive and we've been getting a ton of them and that's another review
Ooh, you know what, Ryan? You know, let's mix it up, man. This is a special episode. We've got an awesome dev interview that's about to go down. Why don't you take this one, buddy?
Okay, well, I don't mind if I do. So this one is from Butch987654321. Kaboom! No, the kaboom's not in there. Just the rest of the numbers.
You've got to read them verbatim, Ryan. That's the deal.
All right, all right, fine. This one's titled, Best Video Game Podcast Ever. Five-star review. The podcast is incredible. As a gamer dad of similar age, I can relate to Josh and Ryan on so many levels. They bring plenty of nostalgia, but also review new games and trends, always keeping the podcast interesting. Great work, guys. Also, Josh is way older than myself or Ryan.
Ryan, you say it already.
That's not what the review says. Oh, okay.
All right. Maybe I added the last part. You're on your off reviews, buddy. You can't just ad lib that stuff, man. My bad. My bad. Oh, my goodness. You joker. You're off. You're off reviews. I couldn't help it. But seriously, thank you, Butch987654321. You are awesome for taking the time to leave a review. If you have not left us a review yet, please take the time to do so.
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Chapter 4: How does it feel to release a highly anticipated game?
I didn't think about that. That's an interesting point that some things are just locked in because of the work that's done previously. So, Andre, I want to talk because, I mean, we have been playing the heck out of this game. We have a large community. Our listeners, everybody has been raving. I mean, raving about this game.
So, you know, there is a hype level, I mean, for us as gamers, and I'm sure for you guys as well. So I kind of want to ask a couple questions about just the release of the game. Okay. And, I mean, you guys are in a great spot because this has been very, very positive. I mean, every gamer that we talk to on social media, people are posting screenshots and they're praising the game.
What is that like? Like, when you release a game and you start to see the reviews roll in and you see, you know, the Metacritic scores and the critics are, you know, reviewing it, but then you have the gamers and...
like do you guys dive into the reviews i mean you know we're a podcast people leave us reviews and it's like every time a new review pops up we read it and we go oh that was great or if somebody's like hey we don't love it you kind of go like oh like oh that hurts man so what is that like to kind of see the reception to the game um so last time six years ago when we did kcd1
I just stopped for a week and I watched screams nonstop. My wife would just bring me pizza or good wife. He said the game, by the way, she's Bianca in the first game. So, oh, wow. Okay. So that's cool. And she, you know, did some other stuff for us. She's very involved with the Warhorse.
Warhorse is actually a very, you know, like a large family type of thing, like a lot of partners and people be like, we know each other. So it's cool, but cool wife, great point. I'll tell her later. So I was just nonstop watching streams. I tried to do this, you know, this time as well, but since then we kind of got two kids and that gets in the way a lot. There's a little bit. Yeah.
Yeah, just, you know, LLA. We're both dads. We get it. You know, mobile phones kind of help, so it's okay. So I still watch streams, but this time, and this is amazing, last time I was worried, like, every time... Sorry, just there's not a because I'm on a phone.
There's notifications Last time I was worried like every time someone loads a safe or opens a door or it goes to combat I was like praying that it doesn't break this time. I'm enjoying it far more I can like enjoy it like watching that not being like Anxious all the time and then obviously we read the reviews.
Uh We try to respond I sometimes respond to social media to like the same posts like to get a fail or something like I don't indulge in like all that stuff, um but um So so I try to interact as as much as I can I read reddit, uh I'm, you know, today I was kind of bummed out because I found out that a lot of people have a trouble with my mission in a game because maybe we made it too hard.
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Chapter 5: What are the challenges of game development close to release?
is in that patch that's interesting to hear that's so cool like a peek behind the curtain of that there's still so much uh development and fixing even when you guys are done then there's still so much more to do especially on a like big open world game i can give you a broken game or i can give you a less broken game but you have to like download yeah 60 gigs which usual gamers are whining you do it anyway so i mean yeah
One more question about the release here, Andre. And then I'd love to know a little bit more about what you do on this. But I don't want any specific games or anything like that mentioned. But when you get close to the time to release a game... I have to think a studio probably has a good idea whether their game is really good or not.
We've seen some games release and then they come out and they're just terrible. And that's just the nature of some games. And so it's like, did you guys... Did you know that this game was awesome? Was there a fear that it's like, oh man, we don't know how people are going to like this? Like, I just guessed that you guys were like, dude, this game's awesome.
First of all, you don't want to offend the gods, so you go very humbly. Never think that you get the victory in your pocket, because that's just karma. Karma is a... Yeah. No, that's okay. Karma is an evil old lady. Um... But we knew that the game is way less buggy than the first one. So that, you know, made us kind of happy.
We didn't know whether people will buy into it because the concept is still very niche. I think the games you're referring to, they know, like they know they're going to catch a lot of flack for like, you know, doing the same thing all over again, or releasing it unpolished, unfixed, or uninspiring, or whatever.
But they know that their brand is so strong that they can carry into the next thing they're going to do.
Interesting.
Because I think that mainstream gaming has started to be absolutely repetitive. I think we can all agree that you can only play as many... Well, I don't want to mention... I don't want to... I mean, you can. I just didn't want to put you on the spot.
We talk about games all the time.
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Chapter 6: How do developers respond to player feedback after release?
No, I love that. I know exactly what you're talking about. And we can feel that we can tell.
Yeah, yeah. So what we're aiming at is a game with a lot of soul, but also it's very different in so many areas. So we didn't know whether people will buy into it because this thing has been so strong that some people are like unable to escape the sort of clutches of
mini maps and markers and fetch quests and they sort of do it for all the instant gratification basically all the mechanics that tell you oh you're so good because you click the button are like they work they work that's why they do it it's dopamine based science basically but
there's a point where you kind of you know reveal the like tear down the veil and you're like oh i really haven't you know done anything very substantial so but there's a this is a hard like thing to to take people from that type of thinking to the type of thinking like in kingdom come You start. You all played, I guess, through the intro. And you start. You have nothing.
You have nowhere to sleep. You have nothing to eat. You have some very, very raggedy bagger clothing. You don't really know what to do. We put the character there, the beggar, the girl.
Oh, yeah.
It wasn't there. We put it there when the telemetry you know, data went back and people were like, Oh, I kind of didn't know what to do. So we put, put her there and we were like, Oh, maybe it's too much. And then I watched the streams and people ask her all the questions and they go all the answers. And then they like turn around. They're like, okay, so what now?
So, so actually the level of how people stopped, uh, you know, taking a J agency in their own gaming is like, I guess I don't think it's good. And we're trying to do the opposite way, but it's hard to take people from that thinking to like, Oh, you really have to think for yourself. So we didn't know, we didn't know where it's going to be receptive. Like, like this, like we weren't sure at all.
Yeah. Well, every time you try something different or new or unique, you know, there's always that hesitance on is this going to land or is it going to be rejected? But I can say it's been great so far. Yeah.
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Chapter 7: What makes Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 unique in gaming?
Like, you know?
So... This is the bad part, I think. Fetch quests are fine, but their setting is usually so lazy. Right. Spirit uninspiring that it's sort of comes out as like, yeah, it's a fetch with that as that escort quests have a different, like the MPC moving on their own. I know that's the challenge with those levels, I guess, are just for like a change of pace in some games.
You like the, you know, nurses. Like in Max Payne, like you get, you know, drugged and then there's this like line, you go on the lines and then it's like, I don't know if you have played the original. Oh yeah. Max. But there's like a level where you just walk in the dark and it's like, everyone hated it, but everyone remembers that.
That's such an iconic scene that everyone like, Oh, original Max Payne, the one where you just, get, you know, high on something and then you walk through dark level trying to find an exit. So these are for change of pace, but I think all of these are not bad on their own. The concepts aren't bad, but the execution is...
I will say this is not a spoiler, but I am currently on the quest to go see the hermit and to get the sword from the hermit. And it's like, I mean, theoretically, that's a fetch quest, but I know already that this is setting up so much more. I don't know what's to come because I haven't actually, you know, I just started it.
But I think this is where you guys really excel, because you talked about that. Can you remember your play session? Right. Like I played yesterday and I remember what happened yesterday. And, you know, everybody in our community is talking about this game. And it's like, you know, somebody again, I don't want to get in a spoiler, so I'll be a little bit vague.
But somebody got into where two different sides are kind of facing off over a pasture and. And his outcome was very different than my outcome. And we talked about that. And that gave us that cool thing to kind of talk about.
And I think this is where you guys have done a masterful job on this is that even though there may be fetch quests, those quests are only a narrative to tell a bigger story at that point.
Then it doesn't feel like a fetch quest. It feels like you're just still playing the game. Even when you read a book and then you have to go back to the previous page the next day. This you don't.
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Chapter 8: How has gaming changed since the early days?
You made an excellent point with the choices and consequences. I don't know if you remember this, but there was a time in gaming when CNC, choices and consequences, it was like a marketing buzzword. Oh, yeah. And people with money loved it because it means replayability, right? Right. Like, sure, I'm going to play whole Mass Effect 3 to get a different colored ending. Smart, right?
It doesn't work like that, but it does work in like a...
a different way that if you share the experience like you can see there was like there was an actual choice there right like you can feel it so i think these games are way better now when you have like reddits and youtubes because people can like pick up on oh my god it was really i did i had a completely different experience so i now know there was a true choice or there was like a true branching that it wasn't this thing that was
made there to make me replay the game, which with single player games, I will probably never ever like know how many people replay 100 hour single player like hardcore fans do, but most people just don't even have their multiple endings. They just put them on YouTube. And they're like, Oh, yeah, I could do this, I could do that. So seven, it's great.
And that's something we try to do as well as like the sort of rabbit hole of adventures. Like you go on a simple fetch quest and then it, yep. The narrative is in like, oh, now I can't have the thing because, or I can't find the thing because, or I had the thing and I don't have it now because like you, you can like expand, but that all means more scripting because the fetch quest you mentioned,
are pretty simple. Like, you go there, the game, you know, you have five rabbit pelts, ding, objective, go back, everything's super simple. You can't really get lost. But with our quests, it's kind of hard to... Sometimes even we, like, struggle a lot with, like, how to tell the player what to do. Detective quests, that's, like, super, like, complicated.
Like, how to tell them what to do without actually revealing the answer. Um... And it gets messy. And so you have to be more, I guess, attuned to be like, I really don't need the journal or the objectives. I need to think for my own.
That discovery, though, is such a good thing. Honestly, the sense of discovery...
and just coming across something in a game is something that a lot of games don't do we talk about the dumbing down of games and and even with the choice right like now we're getting the illusion of choice where you know a game might make it look like you are making a choice but you're really not the game's going to continue on no matter what and it's like as gamers we get frustrated with that like we're not dumb we understand and so i think that's why it's so refreshing
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