Gaming hosts Josh and Ryan are back and we’re bringing you an INCREDIBLE episode. We had the opportunity to chat with incredible artist and animator Sykosan. Sykosan has worked on multiple video games, is an amazing artist and even animated an entire Katy Perry video. We sit down to chatvideo games, art, animation and much more. We learn some shocking things about the difficulty of animation in gaming, and have an absolute blast while doing it! It’s another gaming packed episode from the Video Gamers Podcast! Check out Sykosan’s incredible work at: https://www.instagram.com/sykosan/ Thanks to our MYTHIC Supporters: Redletter, Ol’ Jake, Disratory and Gaius Connect with the show: Support us on Patreon: patreon.com/videogamerspod Join our Gaming Discord: https://discord.gg/Dsx2rgEEbz Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/videogamerspod/ Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/VideoGamersPod Subscribe to us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU12YOMnAQwqFZEdfXv9c3Q Visit us on the web: https://videogamerspod.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Chapter 1: What is the focus of today's podcast episode?
Hello, fellow gamers, and welcome to the Video Gamers Podcast. It's very common for a game's artwork to capture our attention quickly, but what about the animation side of things? The people that take a game from concept art to interactive experience. Is animation as time-consuming as we think? What sets good animation apart from bad animation?
Well, today we're going to find out as we dive into the world of art and animation in gaming. But first, some introductions are in order. I am your host, Josh. And joining me, a lot of you see him in 2D, but if he turns sideways, believe me, the 3D side of his face comes out. Ew. Ew. That's right.
How many, you know... I can't stop. I am self-described with this big old nose of mine. But that's two in a row you put me on blast on the episodes, man.
Chapter 2: Who are the hosts and guest in this episode?
I can do that because as a fellow big-nosed person, man, you know... Oh, look at... Yes, we're on.
Oh, I can smell colors. That's all. Oh, man.
And joining us, the man with more talent in his little finger than Ryan and I combined is Psychosan. Hey, nice to be here. Great to see you guys. Man, it is awesome. It is awesome to have you, Psychosan. Thank you so much for joining us, man.
Hi, it's always a pleasure. I always love talking about animation and video games as well. So yeah, looking forward to it.
This is great. So Saiko-san, I'm just gonna start off with the fact that you have already made an impression on this podcast with some of your art. So the rest of this episode is gonna be very easy.
For those that aren't aware, you did actually draw our kind of mascots that we have for this podcast now, which was really awesome to see kind of go from just a concept of, hey, let's have three little guys that kind of represent us, To your just kind of drawing of them in a, you know, just without any color or anything and say, hey, you know, how does this look?
And we were all kind of blown away. And then to see the progress of you coloring them and designing them and kind of arranging them and all that has been awesome. So I know a lot of our listeners are already familiar with some work that you have done and the talent that you have in that regard.
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Chapter 3: What makes animation crucial in video games?
Um, but for people that don't know, you have also done a good bit of animation work in gaming and not only in gaming, but a Katy Perry video that we will talk about a little bit later as well. Um, and so we are really excited to have you join us and really kind of give us some insight into art and animation and how that ties into gaming and just the world as, as a whole as well. So, uh,
Yeah, I hope I can inspire some people in the way. That'd be cool. Yeah, animation is a great world, and it's just like video games. It's full of similar things, you know? It's very close, so yeah.
It's neat because it's like, I think as gamers, you know, and I kind of touched on that where it's like we see, you know, a new game come out and we go, oh, man, the art style in this game is beautiful. Like we just talked to the some of the developers for a game called Tales of Iron 2. It's an indie game. Really, really neat, unique kind of art style there.
And it's one of those things where everybody goes like, oh, man, the art in this game is awesome. But as gamers, we don't ever talk about animation. Without animation, we don't have video games. But it's one of those things where I think it's kind of a blind spot for us. So that's one reason we're really excited to have you on the show and kind of just get a look into some of that stuff.
Because I think it's something that we don't necessarily put enough emphasis on. And we're dying to know a little bit more about it. Yeah. And so that's one of those things that we have been doing. We've been talking to different people in the industry. We've chatted with some voice actors. We've chatted with some game developers, some designers.
Now we're talking with you, obviously, to kind of get a look at that side of things, which is really exciting for us. But we always like to kind of start off because we are a gaming podcast. And we like to just say, hey, let's chat games for a little bit so people can kind of get to know you a little bit more as well.
And so we always reach out and we, you know, we always say, Hey, what are like, what are some of your favorite games that you've played, you know, in the past or, you know, some, some gaming memories and stuff like that. And so you mentioned a love of some old school games and you mentioned some of these like Street Fighter.
Yeah, of course. I mean, if you know my work, you'll know, I'll just keep drawing these characters even, even today. And I'm still definitely more influenced by the original Street Fighters than the, than the latest ones. Yeah.
Yes, I was a huge fan of Street Fighter II. I've told the story many, many a day of spending way too much time in the arcades and pumping quarters into those things and stuff like that. You also mentioned Bubble Bobble, Prince of Persia, and Monkey Island. I mean, these are some all-timer games.
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Chapter 4: How do classic games influence modern animation?
Oh, yeah.
And I would just... I didn't have enough money to play for hours. I just had a little bit of money and I would play a couple of games and whatnot and then just stand around for hours or as long as I could just looking at other players or just looking at the... the opening sequences that I've got on the arcades.
And yeah, I would look at the, just observe the characters and how they move and their attacks or whatever, because usually it's fighting games most of the time. But we talked about Bubble Ball, for example. It had a really cute style. And the design of the monsters, just a few pixels wide, they were still very clever and very expressive. So yeah, it was fascinating for my childhood eyes.
I was absolutely mesmerized by those. So, yeah, I, um, I remember just, just now about these Irem, Irem games. Um, I think, uh, I don't know if I say that right. It's IRM. Um, they, they made, um, these, these ninja games and I think Irem Corp was the one that did, uh, um, our type, I think. Um, I forget that too, but our type was, uh, our types of throwback, man. Yeah. Gosh, he was so good.
So good. Yeah. I was a massive fan of that. I don't know about you guys, but I have these songs in my head sometimes from video game times that just keep coming back. And on my playlist, I've got some games, tunes, just because I enjoy listening to them again. Yeah, it just marks you for life, I suppose. That's what it is.
It really does. It's funny because I remember begging my parents for a Sound Blaster card because way back in the day, you didn't have music anymore. In games, you only had your little PC speaker, and it could only make little bleeps and bloops, and that was it.
And I remember the Sierra games started coming out, and they had music in them, but you couldn't play the music unless you had an actual sound card for that. People don't know how far we've come, man. Not to sound like the old man, but it's like we have come a very long way.
We're lucky. We're lucky we've seen it all coming to life. We've seen it. We've lived it through it. There's only one time in history when video games...
came to be and uh and we were there so that's fantastic we're right in it baby heck yeah it's true i know i love it i i gotta say i love that prince of persia is one of the games that you mentioned because i remember prince of persia coming out right and thinking the animation in that game was second to none nobody had done like this leaping and grabbing a ledge and then climbing up on the ledge like that was unheard of so that was the thing with prince of persia yeah
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Chapter 5: What is the process behind creating high-quality animations?
It was really something groundbreaking at the time. So I love that you brought that up as well. So so and then we get into the Nintendo and the emergence of some of these 3D games. Famously, you mentioned Tomb Raider. I think we all remember Tomb Raider coming out and just blowing our minds because now we have 3D models and it's like this. Yeah. We're living in the future. I know.
The thing is that 3D had been around for a little while, right? It was coming, right? We were expecting great things from 3D, but I think this one was the first one to really give a glimpse of what we could expect. There's just the fluidity, the nice designs, the clever controls and whatnot. So, yes, I think there was a big leap forward with that game that really kind of
said to everybody, this is the future, right? At that point, he knew. Because before that, the 3D was so clumsy and clunky in so many ways. But after that, he was like, no, no coming back now. This is 3D. Yeah.
Oh, yeah. I remember, I mean, you're going from, you know, games on the, you know, Sega, Nintendo, and these side scrollers and, and, And, you know, while they may have looked good, there was nothing like it when this came out. And I remember fighting, you know, as a kid, fighting like a tiger. And I was like, this is the best graphics I'm ever going to see in my whole life.
Like, look at this thing. It looks like a real tiger, mom. You know, look at it. And I was like, don't look at her. Don't look at Lara Croft, though, because then I won't be able to play the game anymore. But let's focus on that.
Yeah. So do you, you know, we're talking about these kind of 2D games versus when we started to get into the 3D world. And, you know, we're kind of seeing almost this resurgence of like the 8-bit and 16-bit pixel art kind of thing that we see, especially from a lot of indie games. I am a self-professed graphics snob. Like I love just cutting edge technology graphics. I know.
oh, this looks so good, that kind of thing. But I am also softening, I mean, I do love art. So a game that has a really neat art style really draws my attention too. Do you have a preference? Do you like pixel art? Do you think this 8-bit, 16-bit thing is interesting?
This is a great question because you wonder, right? We tend to think, I think it's probably a default position. Most people think, Better graphics is just going to be better. Why would you look back and go back to something that's less detailed or less smooth? But the thing with art in general is that it's never been about being realistic.
If you look at any, like the history of painting, there was a time first when you start with simple drawings there's a lack of experience or lack of tools and then painters develop these new art style that become more and more realistic and then eventually when you get to a certain realism you go back to stylized style you know and and
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Chapter 6: What factors differentiate good animation from bad animation?
3d can hardly get any better it's so good uh you know it's so hyper realistic we can do a fantasy we can do realism all that no problem special effects are just mind-blowing so now we've sort of reached the end of of that world in principle. We know what we can do with it. So we're always curious to find new things. So we go back to other styles.
And what's the beauty of a sketch, for example, is that it's simple. Just a little line on white paper can do something interesting. Why? Because it's stylization of the real world. And everybody, if it's done well, everybody's going to like it. You don't have to go full realism to make something interesting. And I think that's what's happening with pixel art.
Pixel art is interesting because it's a simplification. It's a stylization of the world. And it's interesting in itself. As long as it's interesting, it will always be there, I think. To me, it looks like a painting because the pixels are big and colorful and bright. And yeah, it has this appeal of a beautiful painting when you just brighten up the colors and simplify the drawings.
So I think we've we've done some really I say we not me, but artists have done some really neat things with pixel art lately, too, where, you know, I don't know if you're familiar with a game called Dave the Diver, but a very, very popular game that came out a year or two ago. And it's all pixel art. But they've utilized like pixel art with.
I don't even know how to describe it with like effects and backgrounds to it and stuff like that to where it's gotten like, it's actually gotten really beautiful.
Like I love what you're saying about the simplicity of it, but I feel like with people kind of going back to using pixel art and then enhancing it, they've kind of done some really, really neat things with it at the same time to where even somebody like me, where normally I go like, yeah, it's not my thing. Like I can look at that and go like, OK, this looks really neat, man.
They're doing some really cool stuff with this now, too. Absolutely.
Well, there's other things than just the details. There's, for example, the atmosphere of a game, the colors, the mood. So you can create with simple shapes. You can put an atmosphere into your game. And that in itself can be appealing. And what you see with 3D a lot is that this is a bit harder to control. Let's say an artist is painting something just directly, putting colors on the screen.
They have a full control of what it looks like. They can decide at any moment, I want to have particles there. I want to have a reddish hue over here. And then it can create that mood exactly the way they imagine it. If you do 3D, you have to go through the rules of 3D, which is completely different. You have to put a light in there.
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Chapter 7: How does animation for video games compare to animation in films?
So I studied architecture, and I was using a 3D package back in the days. And then when I graduated, it's only after that I started looking into animation. But I was essentially a 3D guy at first. And I learned a lot from 3D. There's a way to approach lighting, to approach colors. and also comping the colors to make things look a certain way.
And I sort of transferred some of that understanding to the way I paint. So when I draw characters, I kind of separate layers in a way that 3D does it. And so sometimes I have students and they ask me about my approach to drawing, and there's some very different approach. You could have like the sort of traditional painter approach, which is
pick the exact color that you want, and you go with that. But my approach, for example, is a more layered and constructed approach where you have a base color, and then you've got some light on top and some shading, and then you add some effects, you layer things on top. So that sort of layered approach is very much akin to 3D approach. And one is feeding the other, right?
There's a back and forth between 3D and 2D, and it's a good thing. It's a good thing.
It's a neat mix. It's interesting. Again, I kind of talk about gamers and we don't really have a lot of idea. We just play the games that are in front of us and we can kind of go, oh, this is pretty. But yeah, that kind of getting that look behind the scenes a little bit where it was like, here's a 2D rendering.
And then he rotated it around and it was like there were 12 different layers in this 2D rendering. And it was like...
this is how they do it yeah and it's like it's still 2d but it's it's just something almost completely different it's like its own thing which is just it's so interesting to see yeah absolutely so we're gonna get into i want to talk about the animation side a little bit here in just a second we're gonna take a quick break and then we'll be right back All right.
We are back chatting with Psycho Son, man. Oh, this is awesome. I love these glimpses into the talent that is, you know, that just exists out there and how that relates to gaming and just the skills, man, that people have that go into these things.
Yeah. I think people would love to know a bit more about what the people would do those games, right? And how they do it. But we'll get to this, I'm sure.
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Chapter 8: What challenges do animators face in their work?
So are they separate? Are they together a lot of times?
They can be separate. But I would say definitely an animator is also an artist. You have to look at animators, I think, a little bit more like actors in movies, right? You would say of an actor that they are artists, right? They don't paint. They don't make music. They act. That's what they do. And that's what animators do. That's how often I describe it to people as an animator.
I'm like the actor on the set, except that instead of acting things live, it just takes hours and hours of drawing frames after frames to get the same result. But we kind of act things out. For example, when I have a shot to do, I just...
get off my chair and then maybe i'll film myself and i'll try to act out the scene to see how it is so i become the actor and then i try to translate that into drawings so yeah it's very much an art now however you don't need to draw necessarily particularly since 3d in fact well if you if you're doing 2d animation you need to do how to know how to draw obviously but if you're a 3d animator you you
In the ideal scenario, you're given a character that's entirely set up, rigged. And in video games, it's the same. You have to do these animations, and the character could be prepared for animation. And when you come in, you have a sort of setup of tools to move the face, to move the arms and legs. and that's when you come in and make everything move. And you don't need to draw at all.
You may never have used a pencil before and still be a great, great animator. But often it's understood that the principles of 2D animation that we've developed through the years early are simply translated into 3D. And they learn the same lessons. They learn the same approach. The keyframe approach to animation is 12 principles of animation used in the US, particularly. I'm French.
LAUGHTER
That's awesome. I love this stuff. I find it so interesting. You mentioned you'll get up and you'll record yourself doing some movements for a scene and you become the actor to help you animate that. Does that go in line with... Does this really take as long as we all think it takes? You know, are you really putting in that much time?
Is it that time labor kind of that takes it just over and over so many hours? You mentioned a million hours. Like, is it really that involved?
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