Young and Profiting with Hala Taha (Entrepreneurship, Sales, Marketing)
Kelly Roach: The 5 Pillars of Conviction Marketing | Marketing | YAPClassic
Fri, 02 May 2025
Marketing and social media weren’t part of Kelly Roach’s world when she grew up just above the poverty line in rural Pennsylvania. She cleaned toilets to pay for dance lessons and learned early that hustle trumps circumstance. That same grit propelled her from an entry-level sales desk to the youngest vice president at her Fortune 500 company in just eight years, landing the “impossible” accounts her peers had chased for years. Instead of settling, she rose at 5 a.m. to build a coaching side hustle that became an eight-figure enterprise guiding founders from six to seven figures. In this episode, Kelly unpacks her five-step Conviction Marketing framework and three-tier pyramid that turns ordinary how-to content into a category-of-one brand. In this episode, Hala and Kelly will discuss: (00:00) Introduction (01:11) Kelly Roach's Humble Beginnings (05:20) Rising Through Corporate Ranks (09:27) Building a Business While Working Full-Time (10:16) The Importance of Sacrifice and Patience (20:19) Conviction Marketing: The Book (29:35) Identifying Industry Gaps and Building a Support Team (30:10) Introduction to the Marketing Pyramid (30:36) How-To Marketing (32:57) Hope Marketing (39:40) Conviction Marketing (51:05) Building Your Tribe Kelly Roach is the founder and CEO of Kelly Roach Coaching, creator of the Unstoppable Entrepreneur Program, and host of the top-20 marketing podcast The Kelly Roach Show. She is a bestselling author of four books, including Conviction Marketing. A trusted expert featured on ABC, NBC, Fox, and The CW, she equips entrepreneurs with the Live Launch Method, content marketing playbooks, and influencer marketing strategies to scale sustainably. Her work bridges the gap between Fortune 500 strategy and entrepreneurial agility, drawing from her background as an NFL cheerleader turned corporate executive. Sponsored By: Shopify - Sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period at youngandprofiting.co/shopify Airbnb - Find yourself a co-host at airbnb.com/host Indeed - Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/profiting Microsoft Teams - Stop paying for tools. Get everything you need, for free at aka.ms/profiting LinkedIn Marketing Solutions - Get a $100 credit on your next campaign at linkedin.com/profiting Bilt - Start paying rent through Bilt and take advantage of your Neighborhood Benefits™ by going to joinbilt.com/PROFITING. Mercury - Streamline your banking and finances in one place. Learn more at mercury.com/profiting Active Deals - youngandprofiting.com/deals Key YAP Links Reviews - ratethispodcast.com/yap Youtube - youtube.com/c/YoungandProfiting LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/htaha/ Instagram - instagram.com/yapwithhala/ Social + Podcast Services - yapmedia.com Transcripts - youngandprofiting.com/episodes-new Entrepreneurship, entrepreneurship podcast, Business, Business podcast, Self Improvement, Self-Improvement, Personal development, Starting a business, Strategy, Investing, Sales, Selling, Psychology, Productivity, Entrepreneurs, AI, Artificial Intelligence, Technology, Marketing, Negotiation, Money, Finance, Side hustle, Startup, mental health, Career, Leadership, Mindset, Health, Growth mindset, Marketing, SEO, E-commerce, LinkedIn, Instagram, Social Media, Digital Marketing, Content Creator, Storytelling, Advertising, Social Media Marketing, Communication, Video Marketing, Social Proof, Marketing Trends, Influencers, Influencer Marketing, Marketing Tips, Digital Trends, Content Marketing, Online Marketing, Marketing podcast
Chapter 1: Who is Kelly Roach and what is her background?
After high school, you attended a local college and continued to work while you studied and danced. So let's talk about this because obviously hard work was instilled in you at a young age. So talk to us about the value of hard work and who you are today and how putting in the reps really helped you as an adult.
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, the number one thing that I learned in my life is that if there's something that you don't like, change it. And that hard work makes absolutely any dream achievable. And growing up, I had lovely parents. My parents are wonderful people, but my dad worked for a nonprofit. My mom was a stay-at-home mom because there was five kids.
It would have been more expensive to put us in daycare than it would have been, obviously, to have her home with us. And my dad really had a false belief system that in order to make a difference serving for this nonprofit, you know, that we basically had to struggle. He couldn't give back and make great money too. And I believe that that was a false belief system.
And I decided to set out on a course in my life to both do good and create wealth. And that's what I've done for myself is what I teach other entrepreneurs to do.
But not having a fallback position, not having wealth in my family, getting a lot of no's growing up actually was the greatest service I ever could have had because it really taught me the importance of not giving up and being willing to work towards goals over a period of years. I think one of the biggest misconceptions that really holds people back from accomplishing their dreams
is this perception that success happens quickly or happens overnight, right? And I always say, every overnight success is 15 years in the making. It doesn't matter whether you've been working towards that particular success for 15 years. There were so many things that you were working to become as a person that led you to that success.
And that's why we have to make sure that we don't get caught up in people's highlight reels. We need to like run our own race, you know, own the lane that we're in kind of thing, you know?
Yeah, 100%. I love what you said around your mindset around money and how you kind of broke that generational curse. that your parents had. They met well, but they just didn't have the right mindset about money. And a lot of people think money is bad, but money is good. The more money you have, the more you can give and help the world.
Yeah. And I mean, that's just not a nice saying that you and I are tossing back and forth because we run successful companies. I've actually researched it. I actually own my own philanthropic foundation that I use to give back that I'm able to now You know, when I was growing up, we were on the receiving end of charity all the time.
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Chapter 2: How did Kelly rise through the corporate ranks so quickly?
I had someone say to me the other day, I've been working at this thing in my business for three months and I'm just not getting traction. And I actually started laughing. I was like, and? And? Talk to me in a year and a half. Like, what are you talking about? Right.
And it was one of the things that really shocked me when I entered the business coaching space, because I saw that there were so many people promising to teach people how to start and grow businesses in like three weeks or less. They're like six weeks, like laptop lifestyle, like, you know, whatever. And I'm like, I don't think that's how it works. Building a company.
But yeah, so that's just a little bit about my story.
Oh my gosh, so inspiring. And we have so many parallels to our story. I mean, my audience knows my story well, but I mean, I also, you know, went to corporate, rose up the ranks, started my podcast and my business. Didn't quit my corporate job until I had 35 employees and was making 80 grand in revenue a month, you know, same thing.
Like just waited until there was absolutely no risk and worked morning, nights, weekends, lunchtime, anytime I could. But the key is, and you said it, is that you've got to work both jobs just as well. You can't go start a side hustle if you're going to slack on your day job. That's not how it works. You've got to do both equally.
And to your point, if you're not willing to sacrifice in the short term, it's not going to work out. You're going to have to sacrifice, put in the time, if you do want to go this side hustle route, which is like the least form of risk when it comes to starting a your own business.
So I'd love for you to talk about that time sacrifice and how you managed your time working in corporate and building this huge business that you put together.
Yeah, absolutely. And I just want to circle back on your point there really quickly because, you know, there's this huge idea in the personal development world of like, burn the bridges, quit your job. Like, look what's happening right now. The great resignation. Everyone's quitting and no one has a job and no one has a plan.
And everyone's going to go spend their life savings and they're going to be broke and they're going to be even more depressed and they're going to be starting their life over because they didn't put the thought in. into what's my plan. The best thing I ever did was keep my corporate job while I built my business.
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Chapter 3: How did Kelly build her business while working full-time?
I would go out on my little Jeep Liberty on my lunch break and I would literally make my sales calls on my lunch break. And then I would do my client calls at seven and eight o'clock at night every night. And then I would work on the weekends.
And it's the best thing I ever did because it actually taught me how to build a million dollar business while only working in my business about 20 hours a week. And it really taught me to be disciplined, to be focused, to understand where I should and shouldn't be spending my time. And it's really such a gift because now I have a family. I have a seven year old.
Now I run a multiple eight figure company and I have so much time freedom with my family that Because I built a business where I have, and you've done, our stories are like eerily similar. Very similar. You have a very large team. I do as well. That was also a very intentional part of the design of my business and my brand. I'm sure with you as well.
But like, I start my calls at 11 o'clock every day. Like I can take off when my daughter is off. I go to the beach a couple of times a week with my family. Now I work my tail off. I'm not going to pretend for a single second. And I don't want anyone to misinterpret what I'm saying. I work my tail off. Okay.
But what I'm saying is, is I have discipline around where I spend my time, which allows me to be intentional and allows me to put my family first.
And I was able to design a business that works that way because I was working full time in my job and because I sustained the position as the number one performer in my company while I was building my own business, which was a huge integrity thing for me to make sure that my results in my full time job didn't suffer.
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Chapter 4: Why is sacrifice and patience important in entrepreneurship?
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Chapter 5: What inspired Kelly to write the book Conviction Marketing?
And so I saw business owners really falling into these dangerous traps to try and stand out, whether it was copying other people's brands or just following the latest trends and fads that they're seeing on TikTok or Instagram or whatever the case. And I really want to emphasize, there's no right or wrong in however you want to do the marketing for your brand.
I'm not here to tell anyone, do this, don't do that. What I am here to say is, You have a unique calling. You have a unique why. Don't go position yourself as the second best version of someone else. That's the only thing you can do wrong is not honoring the DNA of your own business, not honoring the DNA of your own brand.
And so I wanted to help business owners to understand how they could identify their core belief system, their convictions, how they could really get clear on, well, how am I different and what makes me different? And how do I share that in an authentic and meaningful way that builds my legacy body of work versus doing stupid crap that you're going to regret later, right?
I mean, just to be completely transparent. And, you know, obviously there's a huge what's in it for me because I teach business owners how to scale their brands online. So I want my clients and my audience to be more successful at understanding how to build a category of one brand.
I saw that pretty much everything that people were doing was great for short-term clicks and short-term conversions, but not great for actually building a business of substance and significance that will stand the test of time.
And so the goal of the book is to give a framework that people can follow to not build a brand that looks like mine, not build a brand that looks like yours, to literally walk away from the book like, holy shit, I had a unique calling a unique set of DNA, a unique set of beliefs and convictions, and I can do this my own way without compromise.
Hmm. I have to say, I was reading your book and I was like, yes, yes, yes. Everything that I was reading, I was like, you are so right. I never thought of it, you know, in the way that you outlined it in your framework. But I agree with everything that you say. And I can't wait to dive really deep on some of the steps, you know, to get to be that category of one.
So let's talk about the five essential steps that you outline in your book. Can you walk us through them at a high level? Sure.
Yeah, definitely. So, I mean, let's start at the very beginning, a very good place to start, right? The first thing is, you know, I think you have to step away from a copy paste trap and you have to put yourself in a position to really say, I am going to be the best version of me and only me versus the second best version of someone else.
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Chapter 6: What are the key principles of Conviction Marketing?
You have to know what you believe in order to make every decision in your business about how you're going to stand out and what you're going to do in order to achieve your financial and impact goals. And I know everyone listening has money that they want to make, and a difference that they want to create.
And if you don't know what your anchors are, those things that you're going to burn up a stake for are, you know, it's going to be really hard to do that. So the foundation is identifying and deciding that you're going to build your own brand, not someone else's, right? And then marrying that with identifying your beliefs, your convictions, and
You know, I think then people always have the question, right, about there's things that people do and don't feel comfortable talking about online. And so I just want to address that really quickly. I am a hugely private person. I don't share my opinions about a lot of my personal belief systems online. I don't share a lot of my personal life online. I have a seven-year-old daughter.
My family life is like my everything. And I'm not the kind of person that documents my lunch and does all that stuff. Not that there's anything wrong with it. But I'm sharing that because I think that when people hear conviction and when people hear beliefs, they're like, but I can't. And it's like, no.
you can have very deep convictions that are specifically related to the way that you do podcast production. You can have very deep convictions specifically about the way that you teach people to position their podcast. You can have very deep beliefs about any area of your business, right?
That does not put you in a space of being controversial or being afraid you're going to get your account shut down or talking about things that you're uncomfortable talking about. So I do want to put that out there because I know that's always the question that people have. And you don't have to be controversial in order to stand out.
You don't have to be controversial in order to be convicted, but you do need to have a belief system because otherwise, why would someone choose to work with you versus choosing to work with someone else? And that's the problem. Everyone wants to say me too. Every marketer wants to say, oh yeah, like everyone in my space is doing this. Yeah, we do that too. And we do it better.
No one wants to hear that. Like everyone's heard that a million times. Like, don't tell me that you do that too. Tell me what you do differently. Tell me what you do that is completely unique. Tell me what your thought process is that's actually different than the rest of your industry that makes me say, oh, hey, like, yeah, I want to have a conversation and check out what you're doing, right?
Let's pause there because I know I just kind of covered a lot.
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Chapter 7: How do you identify gaps in your industry to stand out?
Yeah, absolutely. So how-to marketing is the most basic element of marketing. And it's typically the way that people enter your ecosystem. It's simple. It's easy to do. Anyone can do it. It costs you nothing. Record a quick video on your iPhone, pop it on your stories, pop it on your page, share it across different profiles. Boom, you're doing how-to marketing.
This is literally a transfer of knowledge. It's where I'm showing you, hey, Hala, I know how to do something that I know you're interested in doing. I'm going to be your teacher. So all of a sudden, Hala watches my video. She spent two minutes with me. She's like, damn, I like this girl. She just taught me how to do something I didn't know how to do.
Chapter 8: What is the Marketing Pyramid and its layers (How-To, Hope, Conviction)?
All of a sudden, she's like, cool, okay, this is someone that I like. This is someone I trust, you know, whatever the case. So how-to marketing serves a really important purpose because when people are scanning the airwaves and when they're looking for new accounts to follow and they're looking for new people to learn from, they want quick, digestible, instant tips. Easy. Okay.
The problem is that's where most people stop. Now, the problem with this is just like people are scanning the airwaves, looking for a quick, easy, actionable tip, they're doing that all day, every day. It's called escapism, right? That's why people go online and scroll and scroll and scroll. It's escapism.
So it's kind of like you got the girl, she said yes to the date, and now you're like, cool, I already had a date with that girl. Let me see. Oh, she's really cute over there, right? And then someone, right? So the problem with how-to marketing is it's a great way to get people in your ecosystem, right? It's not a great way to keep them in your ecosystem.
And we have to remember, what's the purpose of marketing? The purpose of marketing is to attract so that you can nurture and finally convert people into paying customers. Well, if you miss this middle section of nurture, they never make it over here to conversions. And that's what's happening to a lot of marketers. They pump out this how-to marketing.
And this is, you know, a lot of people are doing their pointing and their dancing and, you know, their lip syncing and all of those things. And that's fine. Do you have a way to then... bring them through that process and finally get them to convert. Okay. So how to get some in, it doesn't keep them there.
We want you to not just do how to, but we want to elevate from, okay, I see you as a credible teacher. I see you as an authority. Wonderful. Now let's elevate. Let's figure out how are we going to get people to keep coming back? Well, if you notice in the conversation that we're having here today, Holla, We talked a lot about stories, right?
We talked a lot about experiences that I had, experiences that you had, ways that we resonate with each other. We talked about failure. We talked about setbacks. We talked about patience and sacrifice. What did we just do?
Bring out emotions.
Exactly. So the people that are experiencing this show... are going to say, you know what? I've only been working at that goal for a year. I think I can keep going. Kelly kept going. Hala kept going. They both run these wildly successful companies now. Maybe there's nothing wrong with me that I wasn't an overnight success in six months.
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Chapter 9: How can you build a loyal tribe or audience for your brand?
There's a lot of people that go so deep in the wrong direction that literally you don't even know what their business is, right? If I go to your social media and I don't even understand what your offer is, what your business is, what it is that you do, like that's a problem, right? So again, the pyramid is about, you know, think about it like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right?
Like you work your way through the pyramid. You don't say, oh, I'm going to pull out this one piece of the pyramid and that's going to make me happy and fulfilled. No, right? Each of the pieces of the pyramid go together. So I'm really happy you brought that up, Paula.
Totally. One more thing about how-to marketing that I think is important. If you're going to do how-to marketing, isn't it true that you should really focus on a couple things and not just do like how-tos about everything in your industry because then nobody's going to know what you're really about?
Yeah. Thank you for bringing that up. I mean, this goes back to what we were talking about, you know, at the beginning of the show, where this lack of patience is the number one saboteur for small business owners. I mean, I see so many businesses that one day they're marketing this. And then the next day you see them marketing something that has nothing to do with that other thing.
And you're like, so now you're expert of nothing. You're literally expert of nothing. The more that you keep changing your messaging over and over and over again, we'll talk about this also with the conviction, the top of the pyramid, but you keep changing what you're talking about all the time and you're doing how to marketing on things that have nothing to do with the core anchors of your brand.
Of course, that's going to create a confused mind and a confused mind always says no. Right. So that's a great point.
I totally agree. She is dropping bombs right now. I would advise everybody to go rewind that part back. And now we're going to move to the top level of the pyramid, which is like the elite level. You can't get to it until you finish steps one and two, how to and hope. And then you can be, you know, top of your field if you can get conviction marketing, right?
So talk to us about what that definition is and what that is.
Yeah, it's absolutely true. So the way that you want to think about it is at the bottom of the pyramid, you're a teacher, right? You're giving tips, you're giving strategies, you're giving how-tos. You are demonstrating that you have knowledge and expertise that your audience does, and therefore you're in a position of authority.
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