Dutch football team in Podcasts

Now, I just want to talk to you about Dutch football, because in the book you make this very interesting observation that Franz Beckenbauer, who is the Kaiser, for those of us of a certain vintage, the man who defined how centre-halves should play, the man who defined playing it out from the back, a whole series of subsequent centre-halves played by Beckenbauer, obviously a huge man in German football.