Aaron Cariotti
speaker
76 appearances
1 recordings
1 series
first heard Dec 2024
last heard Dec 2024
Aaron Cariotti’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.
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Appearances
We could keep doing it over and over and over again. But any catharsis or relief or quasi-social cohesion that you get from this is only going to be temporary. It's going to be fake.
Well, I mean, look, the solution is anything that pushes back against the nature of the problem. So if the nature of the problem is loneliness, isolation, and alienation, then the solution is connecting with our fellow you know, fellow human beings in ways that are, uh, deep and resonant and grounded in friendship and solidarity and care and concern.
Um, so I'm sorry to sound corny, but like love is actually the solution.
Dr. Drew. You want to spend the whole session talking about Dr. Drew?
There's been a lot of research in recent years on the psychological and social effects of forgiveness, Drew. And You can only forgive someone if they have actually wronged you. And we are, because of our selfishness, our narcissism, our wounded, fallen human nature, we are going to hurt one another. that does happen and people have been sincerely hurt.
Everyone has to some extent, some people much more than others. So there's a lot of suffering people out there and there's various ways to try to contend with that suffering. Retaliation and scapegoating would be a very common mechanism to try to deal with the aggression, anger, hatred, resentment, and so forth that stems from those experiences.
from those wounds from having been wronged in many cases seriously wronged forgiveness is giving something to someone that they don't deserve it's letting go and relinquishing that anger hatred resentment and desire for revenge it can be an interior process that doesn't necessarily entail that I reconcile a relationship, right?
I can forgive someone who has abused me in a relationship without getting back into a relationship with that person. The forgiveness process can be an interior process of letting go of that anger, hatred, resentment, and so forth. To me, that is actually, it's a much more difficult process to undergo. It's very, very hard.
Sometimes forgiving someone who's sincerely wronged you is going to be one of the most difficult things a human being can do. But if you don't engage in that process, what are you left with?
You're left with this cancer inside of you that eats you up and then finds an outlet in things like a public murder that I then go on online and celebrate because it feeds into that desire for vengeance that's been stewing in me for years or even in some cases, maybe for decades.
And again, at the risk of sermonizing, we can just go back to that paradigmatic example of Christ's crucifixion, the centerpiece of which is he's there hanging on the cross, being tortured in the most gruesome way that the Romans could have devised. And he's praying for his persecutors. He's saying, Father, forgive them for they know not Christ.
what they do, that perfect act of love and forgiveness, even for those who were harming him in the most egregious and unjust possible way in that moment. So, yeah, we could talk about love, but how do you actually make that real? Well, examine your life, examine your interior dispositions and ask yourself, okay, who's hurt me? Who has wronged me?
And then go through a process of trying to relinquish and let go of the ill effects of that. This is very characteristic as part of the 12-step programs that many recovering alcoholics and people recovering from other addictions have to go through. You understand this very well, given your medical background. Drew, right? You take a moral inventory. I think it's step four, right?
And then you go in subsequent steps. You go through this process of trying to make amends and make apologies and seeking forgiveness from others, but also offering that to others who have wronged you. This is a very powerful process. It's not easy. Many people find support.
So I think getting on X and arguing in the comments section with Taylor Lorenz is a project obviously doomed to failure, which is why none of the three of us is spending a lot of time doing that. We all intuitively know we're just going to get stuck there in an endless, infinite cycle.
Yeah, it's the crowd. So that's the key. That was going to be the point that I was going to make. I mean, the only reason to have public debates with someone like that, if there is a reason, is not for them, but for the person who's listening. Right. To see how an individual like that behaves versus how you behave in conversation and in public discourse.
To reach the muddy middle majority of people that are not in the 20% who are already entirely hypnotized and who are not going to budge and not in the 10, 15% who are not drinking the Kool-Aid, but who can be swayed either by reasonable voices on one end or by propaganda or the hypnotized mass on the other end. Those are the folks that we're trying to reach.
And just to use those two examples that you just mentioned, right, if if they convince 60, 80% of the population of what they're saying, that's only going to strengthen their own convictions.
But if, if they find themselves, you know, in a 20% minority where the rest of the population is not going on and going along with them, that might be the only occasion for them to introduce some doubts into their own thinking, because these people are so mimetic and they're so, they don't have an original thought in their head, right?
None of Taylor Lorenz's ideas are ones that she dreamed up on her own. They're all borrowed from some weird zeitgeist and always moving in this kind of toxic direction. And so I think it seems to me that the answer is not to try to persuade those people.
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