Menu
Sign In Pricing Add Podcast

Abené Clayton

Appearances

It's Been a Minute

Luigi Mangione & America's pent up pain

120.427

Thanks for having me, Gene.

It's Been a Minute

Luigi Mangione & America's pent up pain

166.191

This dude might have been Batman.

It's Been a Minute

Luigi Mangione & America's pent up pain

204.114

You know, it is violence... hitting somebody who a lot of people feel like typifies the inequalities that lead to other forms of violence. You know what I'm saying?

It's Been a Minute

Luigi Mangione & America's pent up pain

263.93

I think the Bonnie and Clyde thing is quite accurate. Yes, this was a very public and hard to watch, traumatizing act of violence that will impact his family for years to come. And also, what does he represent? What's the backdrop, right?

It's Been a Minute

Luigi Mangione & America's pent up pain

319.232

Yeah, you know, that's a good question. I think it is violence, right? To me, by definition of what harm and violence is, I would absolutely put it in that category. But I think in the U.S., we have such a narrow framework of whose victimization deserves to be remediated. I hear it all the time when I write about shootings that happen, you know, in our hoods across America.

It's Been a Minute

Luigi Mangione & America's pent up pain

345.649

Someone can straight up be shot and killed, a young 22 year old. And it's like, well, that's no victim. Is that violence or is that someone getting, you know, all these like flippant comments that now are kind of directed at this CEO. I've seen befall people with no power. Very little money, honestly, whose communities have been scarred by the extractive nature of industries like health care.

It's Been a Minute

Luigi Mangione & America's pent up pain

370.511

It's violent. But obviously, Brian Thompson is not a young black boy on the corner who's unfortunately gunned down. But to see his victimhood also questioned in this way is it's been interesting to to watch. Hmm.

It's Been a Minute

Luigi Mangione & America's pent up pain

475.145

Then when you see documents that show how sometimes arbitrary these decisions are, people's lives are being played with. You know what I'm saying? So that a spreadsheet is balanced. And that's a recipe for resentment. One thing that is usually a component of why someone shoots someone else is around resentment.

It's Been a Minute

Luigi Mangione & America's pent up pain

497.088

grievance right you have done me wrong and it sounds like and obviously we don't know like luigi is innocent till proven guilty he hasn't made any statements it's unclear what his motivations are but based on the context and the information that we have now it appears that a part of the thinking was like you have hurt all these people sending this signal is worthwhile i mean on that point right i've seen a lot of people

It's Been a Minute

Luigi Mangione & America's pent up pain

544.72

You know, when I knew that I'd be coming on to talk about this topic, I started paying more attention to cable news. And I saw people straight up like, Right. And say, oh, and there's this like disgusting perversion and people loving it and like having that become a part of the story feels incredibly tone deaf. Right. And I'm also concerned that mainstream media.

It's Been a Minute

Luigi Mangione & America's pent up pain

571.903

national news is putting the same sort of burden of badness, if you will, on people getting their jokes off on the internet, on people who are saying, who are telling their stories, right, of these horrific outcomes because of shoddy healthcare coverage. They're putting those on the same level as folks who have actually contributed to that harm, right? Like you can't,

It's Been a Minute

Luigi Mangione & America's pent up pain

598.03

say that you're just as bad as the billionaire who is buying up these homes and selling them at exorbitant rates. You're just as bad as that person because you got a joke off about Brian Thompson. That's just not true. We can't equate those. And I think that doing so will only lead to more alienation and lead people to double down. You know what I'm saying? It's dangerous.

It's Been a Minute

Luigi Mangione & America's pent up pain

652.1

The polarization you mentioned, whenever there is a high profile kind of vigilante style shooting, it's usually pretty evenly split along party lines, right? You think of Trayvon Martin, of Ahmaud Arbery, you know, so many folks who were shot by usually a white or white adjacent person who said, I'm taking the lawn to my own hand.

It's Been a Minute

Luigi Mangione & America's pent up pain

672.545

Usually you can rely on how people are going to feel about that, on who they voted for in their politics. And I think they were going to see the alleged shooter as this sort of like Antifa figure who their base would reject. But their base, I'm sure, was among the Americans who were like, yeah, I got health care, but it don't work for me.

It's Been a Minute

Luigi Mangione & America's pent up pain

695.909

And that has just thrown people into a warp that is really interesting to watch. But I worry won't end in root cause solutions, as most mass shootings don't.

It's Been a Minute

Luigi Mangione & America's pent up pain

757.827

This is something I have been thinking about, right? Like this really high profile incident of gun violence. What is it going to change? I worry that much like other high profile shootings, especially high profile mass shootings, where someone does it for these reasons. grievance reasons, I don't think that those will ever truly get addressed with this.

It's Been a Minute

Luigi Mangione & America's pent up pain

784.261

And I'm just really worried that we're going to lose the plot, which is that millions of people, even if they do have insurance, don't have actual access to health care in a timely, sustainable, affordable manner. And the fact that that continues to get lost is extremely worrying and makes the ground really fertile for someone else to try it, you know?

It's Been a Minute

Luigi Mangione & America's pent up pain

832.725

One of the negative things we can get out of this is just seeing more and more people be okay with folks settling their grievances with guns. We see arguments that start in bars that end in shootings. We see conflict in homes that end up with entire families dead straight up. And I understand where the jokes are coming from.

It's Been a Minute

Luigi Mangione & America's pent up pain

853.672

And you know, a couple have elicited a little like, Ooh, they kind of ate it with that one. I don't want the lesson that people take from this to be like, Oh, well I could, Oh my gosh, I'll shoot somebody too. And then my message will get out. Right. Because we've seen that sentiment lead to some of the most devastating high profile mass shootings in our nation's history.

It's Been a Minute

Luigi Mangione & America's pent up pain

877.526

Because someone said, I got a grievance. Y'all got me messed up and I got this gun. Watch what's going to happen.

It's Been a Minute

Luigi Mangione & America's pent up pain

902.126

It was a great discussion.