Abi O'Callaghan-Platt

So I suppose it could run in different ways.

We in Voicewood advocate that the levy should be placed at point of sale

so that customers can see clearly that they're paying additionally for the cup itself and separate it out from the actual price of the coffee.

This would lead to the best in terms of behavior change.

People could clearly see that if they switched out for a reusable cup instead of a disposable cup, that they would be saving this money.

It's also been looked at being at the point of business purchase in reference to point of sale to a customer.

And if this was the line that the government decided to go down and this was the avenue they pursued, we feel that it would be really important to have signage there so that customers could see the breakdown of the cost of the coffee again and the cost of the actual cups so that, again, it could prompt a change.

Okay.

We feel that it's really important that when you put a levy into place that the infrastructure is in place to support this change.

There's no point placing a levy but not making it possible for people to use reusable.

Well, Phil, really, simply, it's a lack of political will, really, to go through with it.

At the time of the Waste Action Plan for a Circle Economy, which was 2020, there was actually a massive level of ambition.

If we'd gone through with any of the actions planned under this action plan, we would have been an absolute leader.

we would have been actually eliminating coffee cups entirely.

We would have been looking at cold drinks cups and disposable containers and looking at placing levies on all of them and replacing them with a reusable system.

None of this has actually come to pass.

And we have to ask ourselves why.

The figures, as Conor was saying, we see a massive amount of litter

from these coffee cups.

We still have this figure of 22,000 disposable coffee cups an hour, which is presumably not decreased since this figure came out.