Adam Gurri

Right.

That's great.

That was a political statement.

I think they launched around the time Bernie happened.

and more people were sort of self-identifying and socialist openly.

Smart strategy, totally valid thing that they're doing.

In our case, it was more like the opposite in the sense that liberalism was so dominant and so successful for so long that a lot of the core features of it, people had forgotten why we should care about them.

They just became kind of assumptions in the background, undefended.

And that was to the advantage of its enemies who had to face those assumptions every day from a position of hostility.

And so had to think about angles of attack, whereas we mostly felt like, well, we're well defended because we won.

We won once and for all.

And a lot of things came to the fore.

It wasn't just Trump, right?

The trade relationship with China, for example, started raising a lot of questions.

People talked about it from an economic point of view, but frankly,

To my mind, the bigger issue was from a political point of view.

Over the 10-year period before Donald Trump, you started having China exercising its economic power to do things like make American film studios self-censored, stuff like that.

This isn't just a purely economic relationship.

There's a contest of ideologies going on here.

And we have to actually think about what's the smart way to approach that, right?