Adam Scott

It sounds like he was in his right mind when he stole these fireworks. It does.

It's kind of like a Skull Bandit. Except it's non-tobacco or maybe Skull Bandits are non-tobacco. No, they're tobacco. Okay. These are non-tobacco. It's just nicotine.

So are Zins.

And they fold each packet. Bespoke, that's another one. That one doesn't bother me. Agents started using it, describing different kinds of movies and shows.

And political talking heads. There's always a new word kind of cycling through. A few years ago, it was crossing the Rubicon. So-and-so is going to cross the Rubicon into- That's so true. You're so right. This cycle, it was something else, but yeah, it's annoying.

Mine too. Is yours improved? I think so. I look at photos of me when I was 30 and I'm like, what's going on? And it might just be the way you perceive yourself. It's hard to gain perspective on that. I just saw The Substance, which was super interesting. So good. But remember when the kid in the doctor's office introduces her to the idea and that kid's perfect face? Yeah, but creepy. Very creepy.

That's what I immediately think of when you say there'll be like three different kinds of faces. Or if you have the power to just freeze your face, everyone starts kind of morphing into a face like that. To me, that looks like a YouTube tutorial face. It's just weird. And it's become this standard that people are looking at on social media.

People would be so much more accident phobic. And also there would probably be some sort of celebration when you hit 30 or 28 or whatever it is. I bet 27.

Is that right? Is that like the peak? I think that's when you like kind of peak.

remember looper one of the great sci-fi movies of the last 20 years or so ryan johnson yeah they have that party when you close your loop and you know your death date is that what it was they throw a party and it's a really dark weird thing but that's the great thing about really good sci-fi is when you drop in and you see kind of the customs of this new altered environment and when it's pulled off well like in looper it's really kind of mind bendy yeah that's the

And what are the apps that would be created to catch you up on what a 30-year-old is into? Yeah. Fucking 430. What if? OK, we got to get back to reality. But after this. No, but listen. Dating a 430 year old.

Translator, a cultural translator. So you can have the same emotional interaction and just be on the same level at all times. So all cultural references become the same too. Yes. Everything evens out so there are no obstacles anywhere. No, it's just emotion. I'm conveying an emotion I have. You say you like Raiders of the Lost Ark and I hear Tron. Tron 3D.

I mean, that just made me sound so much older than I intended.

But your A.I. would be so attuned to you that it would know if you say Taylor Swift to perfectly translate that to you. Maybe it's not Madonna. Maybe it's Emmylou Harris. It's attuned to you and your taste. If the objective is to get along with this person you're talking to and create an emotional connection and get rid of any snags along the way, it'll just provide equilibrium for everything.

Yeah. It's a giant table. How long would you say this table is? 40 feet. Probably 50 people, 40 people, would you say? Yeah, that feels right. Everyone is terrific. And every year there's additions and people can't make it and someone else arrives. And it's always just a fascinating group.

I love talking to you. That is so flattering. And when you texted that to me, I immediately went and got Naomi and told her. Because my immediate reaction when finding a seat at that dinner is if I'm sitting across from you or next to you, I'm like, I really don't want Dax to feel like he has to talk to me. Oh, my God. And I'm trying to engineer getting seated across from you.

I love sitting with you too, because you're an inherently interested person and you're so fun to talk to. And I've always felt that way about talking to you. Even when we didn't really know each other that much, you can just drop in with you and talk about stuff. And you always have something to say.

And you telling me that was a huge deal because I also feel comfortable sitting across from you or sitting next to you. Like I'm immediately at ease.

That's so interesting. I was watching a behind the scenes thing on Temple of Doom and they're like, Harrison really had to bulk up for this one. And it shows him at like a shitty gym, just like doing that. Bench press. With those plastic weights filled with sand. Yeah. Like nothing. He did some bench press. Not nothing. He's definitely exercising, but gyms have changed a lot.

There's no trainer there. He's just by himself. No squats, no deadlift. No, no, no. Just bench and some curls.

It's so comforting to think about that era. And I think movies in that era in particular were geared for us. Yeah. When I referenced Temple of Doom, that is my favorite movie. I was 11 when that came out. That and Goonies and E.T., I know it's kind of tired now because our generation has beat the nostalgia to death a little bit.

Back to the Future, those movies, at least for me, they meant everything. Yeah. I ask myself that a lot. Why did this stuff mean so much to me? At least for me, that whole period of time from 82 to 88, when I started getting interested in beer and just a social life. Hip hop. For me, it was like the dead.

Oh my God. That's why we wanted to do this on video, to be honest with you. To see if Macklemore and I, because he's not here, so you don't know. But is he?

You're right. It's a particularly potent period of time. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

Yes, that's another chapter of that same period of time. Those movies hit me so hard. Pretty in Pink. Oh, my God.

Right. From that period, they still don't look that young to me. And I think it's because they were six years older than me or something. They looked...

I'm not calling you a baby.

Harry Potter stars? Ooh.

Totally. And that window for us happened to be during this Spielberg era where Elliot in E.T., Indiana Jones, the kids in Goonies, Michael J. Fox in Back to the Future. These were heroes. Luke Skywalker. Changing the world. Yeah. And they were all scrappy nobodies. And divorce was making its way into these movies, which I like.

Because those kids in E.T. were just like, yeah, OK, mom. And they would just go up on their bikes. But we're going to deal with this alien on our own. Yeah, dude. We're going to outrun the cops.

Wow. Seventh guest that you had. Yes. I remember it being early, but I was kind of taking a flyer by saying five. Yes.

I think in the low points of trying to do this. That certainly crossed my mind. Like, what have I done with my life? Because it's all I thought about and talked about and cared about.

And here I am with nothing to show for it and no practical skills of any kind. There was a real low point in 2000 when I had not gotten six feet under. I tested for that. With Michael C. Hall. Thank God he got it because he was incredible. And I was not ready to do that. Well, that's heartbreaking. And then you're watching it.

A hefty role and a hefty show. Yeah. But you played his lover ultimately, didn't you? Yeah, I did play his boyfriend for a couple episodes.

Yeah, they did. But before it was even on TV and when I did not get the role, it was after a series of blows work-wise, just not having worked in six months or, you know, one of those, we all went through it and I was nowhere. I had been at it at that point for like,

seven years or something and was at square one because when you're living like guest spot to guest spot and indie movie you never hear from those people again to remind people you and i were in one of those together hair shirt slash too smooth too smooth this is when you're a vomiteer

Fan at bar. Almost worse than guy at bar.

It's far more humiliating. And who were you? Vomiteer at party. What does vomiteer mean? Someone who vomits at a party. Are you on camera vomiting?

Oh, man. I hope so. Wow. That's what was promised. I've never seen... Too Smooth slash Hair Shirt.

We are colleagues of Alfonso Cuaron. We are peers with Alfonso Cuaron. That's really, really funny.

Oh, the one right before.

Well, we were scheduled to start the end of March 2020 or beginning of April, something like that. And actually went and did a table read March 7th or something. And then I was going to go home, get all my shit and come out. And. At the table read, they passed Purell around. We were like, this pandemic thing is fucking, this is weird.

And then as I was there just for like two days, shit was contracting in New York. And I was like, maybe I should go get Lysol wipes for my room. Like what's going on? Then I flew home and then everything happened. So we didn't start shooting till October. But even that- We were one of the only shows actually shooting.

So a lot of shows were doing this where you have a mask, a plastic thing in front of your face and all that shit. For the actors, the only time we saw people's entire faces was when camera was rolling. We would rehearse with all that stuff. And there was a special person with your own box to put your mask and all your equipment in. Oh, my God.

All that to say the isolation from each other and in general, because I would wake up in my apartment, go down to the van that took me to set with it, had a plastic sheet between me and the driver. Oh, my God. Then go to my room where you weren't allowed to have anyone in your room. Suffice it to say, the only real human contact was after action. Yeah. So it kind of fed into the show.

Yeah. It really did. And it really was sort of from the moment I walked into the apartment and closed the door and it was dead silent. And I was like, oh, okay. I need to come to terms with, at that point, she had died six months before.

But like you said, I was cocooned with my family, with the people who love me the most and was insulated, which is, I guess, one of the things love is for, is to make you feel better. And they suffered a loss as well. But obviously, I was the one who was going to be grappling with it in sort of a unique way from my kids in the army.

So I'm in that apartment and I needed to find a way towards grieving and defining what this is and what happened. And I really did it through the show. I mean, I sort of just decided I'm going to figure this out, but the show is about grief.

Yeah, just gliding right into it and very directly letting it out and processing it in the show. There's a scene in the show, actually, where we were on the side of the road at the site of my wife's car accident in the seventh episode. And just by sheer coincidence, because we shot the whole season at once. It was on the one year anniversary of my mom dying. Oh, wow.

And I didn't realize it till that day. And so there were things like that where I could pretty directly process.

I'm a person who tries to compartmentalize and push things to a later date. And so I busied myself constantly. with getting ready for the show and the election was about to happen. And so I was preoccupied with that. And so I closed that door and was like, oh shit. And really felt the loss right there. Like there is a giant elephant in this room with me, but it'll be there.

I'm here for eight months or whatever. I'm I'll be fine. And eventually after a few weeks and just hours of alone time because no one was socializing really and restaurants, you know, it was so weird that I really did have to figure it out there. And I didn't talk to a therapist while I was there and I really should have.

I did, in a way, sort of come to terms with it and come to terms with the fact that grief is something that is a flat circle in one way or the other. It stays with you. And sometimes it feels like it happened 10 minutes ago and sometimes it feels like it happened 50 years ago. Yeah. And sometimes it's surreal that that person is no longer alive. in your life. It's just like unbelievable.

Yeah. And someone that is so instrumental in who you are, you know, this thing that I'm doing for a living. When she was gone, I realized that part of the reason i was doing this in the first place was for her to see it yeah yeah you know of course yeah and so when that was gone i was sort of like who am i gonna impress yeah so i had to

straighten that out and sort of come to terms with the fact that these feelings and this love that you have for a person and their love for you doesn't go anywhere it's still here it's kind of what you're made of yeah the structure of you is that's right and a parent dying it's like part of the sky going away or something it's sort of a big thing

Yeah.

Just like in the back of your head, your mom is this very unique station. It's so fucking thankless. You watch Naomi and I watch Kristen. Yeah.

And meanwhile, I'm walking around like. And they're like, Dad!

Yes.

Why? It's so unfair. Because they know you so well. Yep. That's right. In a way that no one else does. Not your dad. No one. They just...

Yeah. Even as an adult, something would happen. I would call her no matter how embarrassing. You know that that call is there. Yes.

That's right. Horrific. And give you the kernel of whatever it is. At least for me, part of a son's journey, and I'm sure it's the same for no matter what gender you are, there is a period of time where you need to peel away and show that you don't need your mom. You've got this. You're good. You're a big boy now. Yeah, that's right.

And I already know anything you're going to say anyway, because I'm a grown up now. But thinking back on that stuff is painful. But I think also just being a parent now, you just know you don't care. No. Anytime my kids are shitty to me, ultimately, I don't really give a shit.

Yeah.

That's right. It would be weird if you didn't roll your eyes and slam the door right now. Yes.

I wonder what it is I'm supposed to be looking at.

I can't imagine. Monica, are both of your parents with us?

They're gonna bail like every other kid does. My son's in his senior year in high school and that's going to happen in less than a year. That's awful. Oh, my God. It's so awful. Why?

It's so wild. And you were so kind to he came over and interviewed you for his film class. And boy, oh, boy, was that a feather in his cap. Doing a little mini dock on cars and Dax Shepard's in it. That's pretty cool. Pretty cool. He's so smart and such a kind, lovely person and into really cool stuff. It's the best. But it's going to be incredibly sad when he fucking leaves. Oh, God, yeah.

with this.

Now we just have each other. Yes. Jesus.

Really? Yeah. Like after college? Okay. He just recently left. Yeah. Wow.

Did she have to go through the grieving all over again? She went to YouTube instead.

You mean just watching YouTube.

Where do they live? Georgia.

When that happens sometimes, the second time they leave- Instead of this middle ground, maybe it's like, okay. I remember when I came back in between years at school, I had only been gone for eight months. And I remember moving back into my mom's house and she was a little like-

Would you acknowledge that? And I would say that's a big swing and I think it might be a bit of a miss. No! No. Oh, my God. The whole thing just feels a little stupid.

I'm doing the same thing because Ben and I are hosting a podcast. Which I hope to be on. Yes. Where we go through every episode of the first season, then we'll be doing a weekly thing for season two. I love that. And rewatching the show. I hadn't seen it in a long time and it's been three years. So we're encouraging people to rewatch the whole season.

That's a tough decision to make, whether or not you're going to be honest about it or rewatch those episodes pretending it's the first time.

Yeah. And Nikki Weinstock and Jackie Cohn at Red Hour read the script and thought it was brilliant. great and brought it to Ben. And so, yeah, it was more of a sample like, hey, I'm a writer. But they were like, what about this as an actual thing? And Dan was working at a door factory when that sample was sent to Red Hour. Oh my God.

In California?

He's just the coolest guy and brilliant, obviously. And he and Ben just started working on this and developing it. And Jackie and Nikki, I'm sure Dan was kind of scooped up from nowhere, having no real credits. It's fun talking to him about the show and where it can go and stuff. And he has it all in his head.

And also when he's thinking of something new, it's really fun to hear him sort of go, oh, yeah, that's cool. And then little cul-de-sacs and roads, he goes down. He always takes an unexpected, strange direction. But also as far as the kind of language of Lumen, there is no one who can really crack it and write it like Lumen. He can't.

It's a really particular thing that he invented and has a real direct line to is the strange phrasing and nomenclature of human and cure and this whole world.

It's amazing.

Yeah, the like middle distance stare. Yeah.

I don't know. It's interesting. Yes. I really zeroed in on this time watching Dan and Maura, how art figured into their lives. Because John Turturro and Christopher Walken's characters, particularly John Irv, his life is really connected to art and the paintings and the rules and all of the sort of culture of the world is really important to him.

And the guys in Dannemora, Benicio del Toro and Paul Dano's characters, you know, when you have very little, your sort of stimuli is really cut off. These things become really important.

Totally. And when Christopher Walken's delivering the new tote bags for the manual, that's a huge deal. Yeah. It's an event. Could you see all this stuff when you read the script? Not like this. The tone of it was really found during the first season.

Right. Me and Pratt used to do it on parks. It would be saying something stupid to each other and then just kind of breaking into like, what are you? There is this middle distance where it's so clear. I wasn't looking at anything. It was just look over there. Yeah. That's maybe part of why it's embarrassing. No.

And I think, you know, usually when you go back and watch the first season of any show that you know and love, the first few episodes, it's like, okay, they're figuring it out. Uh-huh. Since we shot the season all at once, we were still shooting the first episode 10 months in. So something that worked in our favor is us finding our sea legs was spread out over the season.

There's no moment you can detect that. And that's to Ben and Dan's credit.

Right, to keep our isolation. Yeah.

It's scary going back to anything that worked or works.

You know, when we started season two, it was like there is this steep mountain in front of us. Holy shit. OK, let's go. She's like doing Pulp Fiction 2. Dude. Yeah. And just the enormity of it. It's so much to do. And I love that. I love getting in and chipping away. And I love working with Ben. Something we have in common is we don't want to stop until we get it right.

I completely trust his taste and his eye. And that's something that you have to have in a director is complete trust. And how often is that? But I do with him.

It is. I don't think I'm- Just gorgeous.

By the way, it's so different in here than where we- Oh, sure. Let's take a second to process this. How long have you been in here? Three months. Because I listen to the show. I don't watch it, so I don't know. Yeah, take it in. First of all, Rob did all this. It's really nice. Can you believe- It's like homey. Yeah, it is. And well-designed. I know you have impeccable taste, Monica.

With Totoro, I did because we had so many scenes together. With Walken, in season one, didn't really have all that much time with him. I had a couple scenes and it was incredible to just be anywhere near Christopher Walken. I couldn't fucking believe it. Yeah. Actually, on my first day shooting with both of them, it was like six weeks into the shoot and they both were starting on the same day.

And I was so excited and actually took a picture of the call sheet and send it to my friend Stu. It was like, guess who I'm working with tomorrow, bro.

Oh my God. I was so excited, but couldn't get to sleep because I was so excited. Stayed up till like four. Oh boy. Woke up, not because of my alarm, but because of pounding on my door. I was supposed to get in the car at probably 6 a.m. And it was 8.30. Oh, no. Oh my God. Two and a half hours sleeping. Set was an hour away. Oh no. Now it's rush hour.

My assistant was pounding on the door, which means he had time to drive from set all the way down to Tribeca and pound on my door. This was the first day with John Turturro and Christopher Walken.

Which is the kiss of death, right? You're showing up feeling great about yourself. I let him in and was running around the apartment crying, trying to get all my shit together. Because usually I wake up with at least an hour of just time to drink coffee and read the fucking whatever.

And what did you say? I said, I am so sorry. I just flew in from China. The thing that really sucked about it is that I knew no matter what I say, it's going to sound like bullshit. No matter what I say. Yeah, you're a guy who just slept in two and a half hours. I now have put myself in a position where I have to earn it back with these two guys who I don't know.

And I've been working on this first impression now for a while. And I am starting at a serious deficit. Yeah, you're in a hole. No matter what I say, no matter how gracious they are, they're going to be like, fucking dick. The number one on the call sheet ends up being an asshole.

That's what it is. Is that what you immediately think everyone is thinking about you is this guy's drug addict? This guy relapsed. Totoro was just like, oh, happens to everybody. Happened to me. In the 70s. Yeah, right.

It's really lovely. Yeah, you can almost forget, right? That's the dream. It's nice. And you got the camera sort of hidden. It's really nice.

I can't believe that Christopher Walken finishes work and then goes home and makes himself something to eat and watches television and goes to sleep. Yeah.

So to see him in the makeup chair, looking at his phone, I'm like, oh my God. Yeah. Totoro is similar for me. I went to see his directorial debut opening night in 92, Mac. Anyway, I held all that back till I got to know him a little bit and then eventually kind of unleashed it all on him. And did he like it? Yeah, he's the coolest and such a sweet. Who is he?

He would be such a great person to have on. We're trying. Oh, I love the fascinating guy and one of the great actors that we have. I mean, he is a beautiful actor. Yeah, that's another word I feel is overused. More so like 10 years ago, but beautiful. Everything's beautiful.

They're really close friends and have been for a long time. And it was John's idea to have Christopher Walken play that part. You can just see the love there that they have for each other. And he was really taking care of Chris on set. Not that he needs to be taken care of, but he would come in for a scene every few weeks. It was just so sweet and lovely.

And that's a rare thing to have someone who is that kind of embedded in our consciousness.

Overs, it's so good. You're a director. You know these things. What if I said I'm a director at heart?

I keep thinking about Nicolas Cage walking out on that talk show and doing those kicks. Oh yeah, yeah. That's on Instagram all the time.

Yeah, that's amazing. I thought I could get that wild on TV. I could see the direct line from Dax to Nicolas Cage. And I'm sure Letterman loved that. Yes. Well, I'll say that that is so kind of you to say, and I'll accept it just as much as I did this summer when you said it to me, which is not really at all. But I appreciate it. And you're kind and lovely to say so.

And I think that this show as a fan is so great. And it is where you're able to funnel and express yourself in a really direct way. important way and I think you being so actualized and you journaling every morning is a really important thing and the fact that there are as many people listening to this as there are hearing that healthy behavior from you because listening to you talk about that

makes me want to do it. I'm like, yeah, that makes sense. And without being preachy or self-helpy about it, you're just talking about yourself and how you're living your life. And I think that that is incredibly important. And you're doing a lot of good just by sharing yourself in a more direct way than you would have been able to by acting.

Since the dawn of man, we've gathered around the fire. We tell stories. We can stop saying that.

You're really kind of sharing your insides here, and that's really hard to do. So I'm grateful that you're doing this. Well, thank you, Adam.

Two episodes initially, and then one episode per day until season two premieres on the 17th, and then season two will have one episode per week.

Jesus.

A thousand times each. A stream. Is there any other current... Words that piss me off. Yeah. Nomenclature that's rubbing you the wrong way.

You don't know it. It just means a nice shop. Apothecary bubbled up a few years ago in the wrong places.

Sure. But we don't use it to describe the sandwich shop in Beverly Hills. Correct. Which is coming.

Yeah. Because it's cultural and rhetorical. That's it. Of the two parties, there's one that actually helps out the working class. And it's not the one that won. It's the one that rhetorically and culturally don't know how to talk to them. Right.

So it's shit like that. A hundred percent. But wait, holding space means I'm just creating space for myself.

2007.

I need to remember to watch it tonight.

Yeah. It all comes back to storytelling, you guys. This is just a story. Monica's visibly uncomfortable.

I didn't notice. Isn't it funny in movies where they flash to the future and you see them taking stabs at what will happen fashion-wise in the future? I think in Back to the Future, people have two ties in the future.

You are, even though you're- For kids to do that.

But also you're not done forming. Exactly. And growing. I have two teenagers, so they're always on TikTok and Instagram stuff. And yeah, there's a lot of perfection and redefining perfection. It's all really crazy. It's very sci-fi. It does make me think-

If it can remain this perfect, I will keep this parted down the middle feathered construction for the rest of my days. Okay. Now, did you ever do any dumb thing like that in front of the mirror? I remember my brother had the little lead figurines for Dungeons and Dragons. They were made out of lead. Yeah. And as a kid, I heard lead is poison. So you need to be careful.

I used to just steal all his shit and look at it. He's older than me. So I remember one day taking one of these little lead figures and just sticking my tongue out. and just touching it and then just being like, what am I doing? And I remember looking into the mirror in our living room. There was a mirror hanging there and just going, I don't want to die.

Did you think in your mind at that time you thought you'd be dead before the day's end? I thought I would drop dead any second.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Getting under the faucet. On Instagram, I'm constantly shown, you know, those kids that are now climbing skyscrapers all over the world without any equipment. Yo, they're just free balling it and they're running and jumping. They're not like being careful. Oh, they're getting up to the top of literally the Empire State Building and balancing on one leg. Taking some pics.

Yeah, they have their drone up there and they're just like, what's up? Some toss them a beer. Crazy. Crazy. And there's a documentary on a couple that do this in Eastern Europe on Netflix. Their whole group of friends are traveling the world doing this and they die often. Of course. Because they fucking fall. Yes, yes. But I'm on that algorithm on Instagram and I'm constantly being shown these.

Those are because... There's nothing that I enjoy more than watching these people on the edge of the fucking skyscraper. And I love it. Yeah. It makes my hands sweat so profusely. I get butterflies and I get an adrenal rush, I think, watching them. And then I have to just put it down and not look anymore. Sure, sure. Look in front of the mirror and say, I don't want to die.

It's like, well, it's just a video. You're fine.

Oh, yeah. Your little possessions. His idols. I felt like I was holding special idols. I remember once he came home when I was in the midst of one of my archaeological digs. And I hid behind a chimney that came through the middle of his room. And I just hid there for 15, 20 minutes while he just sat on his bed reading a comic book or something.

Yeah, I'm feeling like you're just ensconced in this, and Parks and Rec too, just being part of this crew that Amy was really leading. But yeah, comforting is a perfect word for it. And it's part of why I was so freaked out when Severance said, first came out a few years ago. It's like suddenly the billboards went up and it was my face around town.

And it really, it should have been like this big, happy, you know, monumental moment that I've been waiting for for 30 years, but it just freaked me out. And Ben sort of talked me down, cause he's certainly been through it. Just because at that point we made the show in a bubble and no one had seen it and we loved it, but had no clue if anyone would like it or if people would just make fun of us.

Like you just don't know at all other than your own barometer. And we thought it was cool, but man, you just have, you have zero sense of how it's gonna be received. So it could have been this big embarrassing thing. Anyway. Yeah, when you're kind of out front, it's frightening and then also rewarding when you're doing something that you feel good about.

People become just film historians when Oscar season comes around. They get very, very persnickety. Yeah. Also all the time it takes, I think that was part of why we were also afraid of it landing with a thud is that it was so hard to make and took so long that it would have been a bummer. But anything that comes out and doesn't quite work, people were working on it for a few years.

And I think how Ben and Jessica Lee Gagne, the director of photography, and Jeremy are production designer and cat or props master, I think the way they visually tell the story too, you could watch it with the sound off and get the story too emotionally. And maybe some of the more kind of mind twisty details wouldn't be there, but you would emotionally get the story.

And I think that's really important too, when you can make something where you can turn the sound off. It's like if you listen to your podcast with the sound off, you get... You get it.

Yeah. But keep the sound off on this one. Concurrently play another one.

Yeah, that's right.

Well, I started at the end of season two. I mean, I had auditioned for the show originally, but it wasn't even really for a specific role. It was so early that Mike was still, me and Rashida read together. and blew it and was bummed, and then Party Down came along. So in a way, it sort of worked out well.

I was able to do that because I didn't get the Parks pilot, and I'm so glad I was able to do Party Down. And then, weirdly, Mike loved Party Down, and from that, asked me to come and join Parks.

I never asked him, I think because I was just 100% sure why, which was I blew the... I sucked at auditioning. I hated it. It was embarrassing. And I was just never very good at it. So I didn't walk out of there thinking I was going to get the job anyway.

You are profoundly wealthy.

Because of your greatness.

Well, I am now. I'm obsessed.

Did he say something about that? You guys had Al Pacino.

Just to think, I listened to his book that he was promoting here, and just him talking about scenes in The Godfather and how he finally convinced them he was right for the role, for doing the scene where he shoots the two guys in the restaurant.

But just thinking about at one point there were people just like working on that scene and trying to figure out like how to do it's just so weird to think that there was a time before that scene existed and that that scene is because of some decisions that people kind of guessed at and were just figuring it out.

Wait, you had Dave's crew?

And these guys... It's out to everyone asking if anyone has any recommendations. I open the shows with it often.

Yeah. I, yeah. Cause I'm, you know, that generation that kind of grew up with that, that music, like they got huge around 87, like with the first big hit and I was like 14. So it was kind of perfect.

I have no idea about anything you're talking about.

That's so weird that that didn't work. Women. No, there was something mysterious about their name and the way they looked and the music videos they weren't in. It was just all cool, you know, back then.

Yeah, those were like my Beatles and Stones, kind of for, I don't know, for my age group or generation or whatever. Those were the two big. I'm seeing here that you're 77 years old. 77 years old. Yeah. Yeah, those were the two big ones. And they were very now looking back, it's like, well, of course, they were both very mainstream, like arena rock bands.

And I think that's part of what I liked about it, too, to sort of the grandness of it.

I grew up in Santa Cruz, California, which is a little kind of hippie beach town. And so we didn't have a TV in our house. I lived with my mom for a majority of the time and then went back and forth. But while I was living there, my dad got me this little five inch black and white TV.

that I just kept in my room and I was just glued to it, you know, without cable television, you have three stations. So I would just watch whatever was on from 7 p.m. or whenever till they went off the air at, what was it, 1.30 or 2 or whatever. Anyway, Letterman, you know, and Different Strokes and whatever network comedies were on.

Hour-long dramas always felt like too grown up and boring until I got older. And now you go back and look at hour-long dramas when, you know, we were coming of age and they're just like pornography bad, you know? Yeah. Like... Not only are they just weirdly bad, but they show there's so much shoe leather just because they're trying to fill up the 42 minutes.

That's right. Like people have no idea how lucky they are with Breaking Bad and the surprise, you know, whatever, you know, modern television. Right. We did those credit sequence things, the greatest event. So we had to go and watch.

Yeah. Like Simon and Simon episodes to find these certain scenes to get context on some of them. And like Bill Burr, like my memories of Simon and Simon are one thing. Like it meant so much to me as a kid. But then kind of diving in and really watching, it's just a whole different. Like I would challenge Bill Burr to binge chips right now.

And it was inconsistent. Some nights CBS would come in great and some nights it was just garbage.

Oh, you got to hang in for seven.

And those gub-gubbers walk in. Lights out. Yeah, and we could like, because now kids, it's all dependent on, they can watch whatever they want. So it just depends on their taste. Yes. What they're going to watch. Back then, like you said, we just watched whatever was on. And that's how we came up with our taste was by watching everything. Yeah.

So it's just a completely, I have no idea what I'm talking about.

They were still making it?

How much time did you get to spend on the Facts of Life set? I know, I know.

And it felt like there was something, it felt exclusive and small. It felt like the audience, they didn't sweeten the audience either, which I don't know if late night shows do that at all, but they- I wish we did.

By the way, I have a story relating to that. I'm wishing your audience was sweetened with a terrible, terrible bit I brought on your show. But as far as the Letterman show goes, there was something just as a fan that felt really, it felt like a clubhouse or something. So did they find you in the audience? Did they go back ever and find you on that episode?

And do you want to spend your moments with Dave recalling that particular- I think I will next time. Yeah, you should. I bet he would get a kick out of it.

Okay, so this ended up being... I know. Go ahead, go ahead. It ended up being one of the most deeply embarrassing moments I've had, and it's also confounding to me from beginning to end why I did this. I just had this confidence in this bit and didn't really slow down to think about it before I... Okay. I was promoting Big Little Lies, right? The second season of Big Little Lies.

I think putrefied is the exact word. The exact feeling.

And so the bit that I came up with, it's also interesting because it's so bad from so many different angles and there's nothing about it that works. Nothing.

When I tell you the basic premise, you're going to be like, why would you do that? Okay, so Big Little Lies, the way I saw it going is like us talking and you being like, wow, Big Little Lies, the cast is amazing. It's like, yeah, no, it's all like legendary actresses. It's like the traveling Wilburys of... of legendary actresses.

So what I had done is I thought that that saying the traveling Wilburys of actresses and equating Big Little Lies with the traveling Wilburys would be this like comedy explosion. It is funny. That would, well.

I had mocked up the album cover. Oh, wow. With, instead of the traveling Wilburys, the actress's faces on their bodies. Yep. And also had gone through for each traveling Wilbury and switched them out for like Reese's Bob Dylan, Shailene, Nicole Kidman is George Harrison, whatever. I don't remember what it was. Yeah. And you had reasons why.

I had reasons why, but first of all, nobody under 50 knows who the fuck the traveling Wilburys are. This was immediately apparent. When I said the first line, it's like the traveling Wilburys, it was silent, silent. You could hear the air condenser. Literally. Yeah.

But also I came to learn that those over 50 who do remember the Traveling Wilburys don't give a fuck about... I may be your one demographic.

Why weren't you there? I was at a Traveling Wilburys concert. So I say it, silence, show the record cover, silence. Right. And then I start going through each member of the band.

The crazy thing is, is I was so sure that this was gonna create a tidal wave of comedy that you and I would just be able to surf through each member of the band that I never came up with actual jokes for each one. Right. I just had these little like, oh, she was in Days of Thunder. So she's Bob Dylan thinking it would just be so like crackly.

Hi, my name is Adam Scott. And I feel pure joy about being Conan O'Brien's fucking friend. Wait, what is this? Yeah, that's right.

No. Because after the show, I remember talking to Andy backstage and being like, how could I have thought that was something? That was not, and we begged you guys not to air it. And I think the reaction was like, oh, please, can we? Oh no. Of course we're not going to air that, so I don't think it airs. It exists somewhere, and I've got to find it.

I can't swim with you to the boat. Yeah.

Well, we don't use special effects, but fine.

Well, it means so much. So thank you very much. You have incredible taste, obviously. Well, no, clearly look around you. I mean, look at these people.

Yes. Okay? I promise you he hasn't seen it since 1987. There's no way.

All right, take care. All right, thanks, everybody.

So bad.

Yeah, that's all Ben. First of all, thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here. I listen to the show all the time. And Conan, you are one of those people who, you know, as you move through show business, you get to know people that you know, they're

work and I'm a fan you are a fan before you get to know them you are definitely one of those people I still can't believe that I actually know you and I know there are a lot of us who feel that way so thank you and thanks for having me it may not last no no no I can already tell it's fading yeah I'm starting to forget your name right now that's right which I totally expect based on previous experiences

Yeah. And that's part of what I love about it is that he's someone who you know him. He's thinking about all of it. He's thinking about the whole grid at all times. And for me, that's that lets me relax and the rest of the cast as well. And we can just focus on because if you're worried about like.

Yeah, but if you're asking me to do this, but is it going to feel ridiculous because that thing's happening and we're going 40 miles an hour. If that guy's right here and I'm reacting this way, like, and sometimes you say that and the director looks at you and it's clear that they haven't thought about any of this, which is fine too.

It's a matter of experience or how different people make different things. But with Ben, you know, he's thinking about the entire thing. He's considered every. Right. So we can all just focus on the task at hand.

Yeah, for a Tia Carrere music video. That was one of my many background gigs. That was you? Yeah. You were the best part. You guys probably all recognized me when I walked in. Yeah. Guy with beret, I believe is how they referred to me. For real? Yeah.

My own. I can't find it anywhere I really have looked. It was fall of 93 and I had a beret and I thought it was great. And I wore it all the time. And I definitely wore it to the filming of the Tia Carrere video. So... So I hope, I would love to try and find it. I don't even know if I appear.

Come on in, man.

How you doing? How are you? Great, actually. I'm just learning how to make a calzonesa. or as you Americans like to say, calzones. Do you want one?

Devin, what are you doing? You remember I identified her, right?

I saw her body. Yeah, I know.

Yeah, I don't know. Mike and the writers were just so great. It was so fun every week getting to crack open Parks and Rec script and see what was in store for all of us because it was always something fun. And Ben was the straight man for a lot of the show and his quirks. ended up being really strange and really fun. One of them was he's deathly afraid of cameras.

And whenever he gets on camera, he starts losing his equilibrium. And that was sort of, I guess that was the first one. He just gets really freaked out if there are cameras around and thinks there's like a bird in the room. And then another one is his love for calzones and his massive depression that comes on if he has nothing to keep him busy.

And his Star Wars and Game of Thrones obsessions were other ones. I don't know where those first couple came from, but I was just delighted to play them. It was always just so much fun.

Oh, my God. It completely did. I have Adam McKay and Will Ferrell to thank for that, and Allison Jones.

The casting director, Alison Jones, she's great. She cast me in this pilot in like 96 that really kind of kept me afloat for a while. Anyway, she's great. She's like the best. And if you look her up, you'll see she's responsible.

Yeah, but she was my wife.

Oh, man. She's great.

Oh really, it affected you?

How about her students? How about this? Did your sheets smell like her four weeks afterwards?

I don't know. I've always thought that those guys are so funny. I love watching an overconfident idiot, but an overconfident idiot who's also deeply unpleasant just gets me excited. I think it's So funny. Also, I feel like too often those are the guys running the world and making fun of them in a movie or a TV show is kind of a fun poke.

Entering into the world of comedy, that was a new thing. Like, ooh, this is going to be really fun and silly and stupid today. I can't wait. But the thing that – the real value I got out of working with those guys at that point that I hadn't experienced before was the sort of anarchy of how they work. And I hadn't seen anyone do it before, which was –

Let's turn the camera on and let's do a couple takes where we do scripted versions, where we play out the scene as scripted. But after one or two of those, we're just going to let it go. And who cares? Let's just try a bunch of stuff. And if it doesn't work, fine. We won't use it. And that was just so freeing and fun.

And I was terrible at it for, you know, four fifths of the filming of Step Brothers. And it wasn't until the very end that I was finally starting to get the hang of it and how those guys work. But that was a game changer just in my brain. And I tried to bring that energy to other stuff I did from there on out, whether it's dramatic or comedic.

As far as just trying stuff and trusting that the best option wins, it just loosened me up and I needed to be loosened up.

Yes, I was.

Yeah, I think that we all on the show, the entire cast had similar feelings as our characters. We all kind of felt a little beaten down by show business in a way. We were all, you know, making a living doing this, but had kind of had, you know, a series of near misses and just kind of made our way through and

and all kind of really felt the show, uh, pretty deeply, I think, um, and immediately connected with it, the material and with each other and just had the greatest time. And I think, uh, At the time when we were making those first two seasons, no one was watching it or really even knew what it was. We couldn't really even get reviewed. It was so sort of invisible. But we didn't care.

We just thought what we're doing is special and just did it for ourselves and for each other and everyone. And it was so fun. And part of it was we kind of thought no one would ever see this. That's the overall feeling that we had. And so we just went for it. And, yeah, it was a really special time making that show.

It was so strange at first because it's a significant amount of time, 12 years. Good Lord. And we're all there in our wardrobe and looking at each other. And I remember shooting a scene in that first episode back and looking at Megan Mullally and Jane Lynch and

ken marino and and martin star and ryan hansen and just kind of marveling at how much i miss these people but also how much i miss these characters they're so crazy and funny um it was just such a happy we'd made six episodes and did it you know six weeks it was just the the happiest time it was so much fun we just finished like two weeks ago um It was just a blast.

And I think the episodes are really special and fun and people are going to enjoy them.

Yeah. You know, while we were making Severance, we shot it in New York. My family is in Los Angeles. So, you know, it was right in the heart of pre-vaccine pandemic. So it was tough. I didn't get to see them very much, but it was sort of the Wild West as far as. just trying to make this show and keep everyone from getting sick. And so everybody was really sealed off and isolated.

Safriyatta.

I would shoot the show, get in a van, drive for 40 minutes to this apartment I was staying in, sit there by myself and eat, sleep, get up, get back in a van, go there, shoot this crazy show where there's all this isolation and it's sort of about this separation from work and life. And so it all started from... forming into this one thing in my head and in my memories of it.

It's really interesting. Just as far as that first walk down the hallway in the first episode, we shot that near the end of the very end of the shoot. Nine, ten months in, we ended up shooting that. And I remember after a couple of takes, Ben pulled me aside and he said, hey, after about five

minute why don't you check your watch and so I do and and he used that he put that in the show and I think it's a little bit of a nod to yes this is taking a while we are going on this full journey down the hallway and they built all of those hallways on this stage and you did have to walk through them in order to get to the office and But they were also constantly moving them around.

And depending on what we're shooting, they're sliding the hallways in one direction or the other and creating new patterns. So more often than not, I would get lost trying to get to the office set and many times would have to just stop and call out and wait for someone to come find me because it all looks exactly the same, just like it does on the show.

And you can just sort of lose your bearings quickly in there.

Oh, man, you know, I couldn't believe it when Ben told me he was going to be in the show. And he and John Turturro are very close friends. And so John really called him up and I mean, he's such a profound presence on screen for my whole life as far as long as I've been into movies and TV shows, which is essentially all I thought about and was interested in as a kid and teenager and adult.

We had a scene where we're all down in his part of Lumen. Anyway, it was my first real scene with Christopher Walken, and I was pretty freaked out because I have to give this speech in front of he, John Turturro, and the rest of the cast that's in that scene, Zach Cherry and Britt Lauer. But it was Christopher Walken and John Turturro that I was a little freaked out about because

giving a speech in front of and um and it was you know one of the first scenes i had with the two of them and um all day i've been feeling like i haven't figured it out it's a relatively simple not super long speech but i didn't it wasn't coming out right it wasn't It just wasn't feeling like it was falling into place. It just was something off about it. It just was not working.

And I was embarrassed because these guys are watching me all day do like a C plus, right? And I could not get over the hump. I couldn't figure it out. And I forget what it was, but something about it just made sense. And maybe it was the fact that I was doing it all day, but it finally kind of fell into place.

And at least it's not like I go back and watch it and think it's incredible or anything, but something about it just made sense. And it came out and the ball at least fell into the pocket, but I was still unsure about it. And after we finished shooting, we were back in this other room just sort of chit-chatting.

And I remember Christopher Walken walked up behind me and just grabbed my elbow as he was walking by and sort of just gave it a bit of a squeeze and a shake. And like a hand on the shoulder. And I just took it as this, I guess, a moment of approval or of good job, maybe. That's how I took it. And I can't tell you what that meant to me. Just that little moment from him was kind of everything.

I'll never forget it.

I'm sorry.

That's right. Yeah. My mom died on March 5th, 2020. And so it was right before everything changed. Right before. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, she passed away and then we quickly went into lockdown. So, I mean, we didn't have a memorial for her till just this past December. And I think, you know, a lot of people have gone through that as far as sort of putting stuff like this on hold.

For me, you know, her death was... world changing in the sense that the thing I didn't you know she was sick she had ALS and so we knew what was coming there for a couple of years it was pretty quick but you know we knew it was coming but then the moment it happens what I didn't expect and I think people who have lost a parent you may understand what I mean the moment it happens

everything shifts. There's sort of a tectonic shift internally that just, it's like a switch going off where, and what I realized was, With a parent, it's like half of your view out the window. It's half of what you do things for. You're always thinking, oh, what's my mom going to think about this? Whether you're a little kid or you're a grown-up. She was an incredible mother.

So anyway, I don't know if I'm articulating that right, but... And I don't know if that was your experience with your father, but losing a parent is a huge event. There's no other feeling like it. But she passed away and then we went into lockdown and I had my kids and my wife here. We were in the house and they really cushioned the blow in a lot of ways.

We were together and supporting each other and going through this together and they really really helped me through it. And then that October, when I went to New York to do the show, The second I walked into the apartment and put my bags down and I was by myself, I realized I hadn't fully grieved and come to terms with my mom's death.

And I had that in front of me and nothing but this time by myself to do it. And that's, you know, what I slowly but surely did over all that time by myself, either by In this apartment or at work. And I feel like the show was certainly part of that process.

Yeah, you know, she brought me to a revival theater in Santa Cruz to see Monty Python and the Holy Grail when I was probably like eight years old or something. And I couldn't believe that someone actually made something like this. Yeah. I remember we were in the front row because it was packed and the scene where – is it John Cleese who gets all of his limbs chopped off?

I'm committing a comedy felony here by not remembering.

In that scene, I remember laughing so hard, I stumbled out of my seat. Since we were in the front row, there's all that space on the floor. And I just remember stumbling out there because I just couldn't contain myself. I couldn't believe this was happening. And my mom grabbing me and pulling me back into my seat. And it was just so outrageous and so funny. And...

And I remember my dad sitting me down and showing me Jaws and like, this is a good movie. Look at this. And also for me, you know, seeing Raiders of the Lost Ark was a big moment. And that's really the moment I think I thought this is something I would want to do at some point. And I wasn't even thinking in terms of like acting. It was more just like that. I want to do that.

That looks really, really fun. So it just sort of was something – after school instead of – I would go to the video store. I would ride my bike to the video store not to rent a movie but just to read the boxes. I would just spend an hour in there reading the boxes and the dates they came out and who did the cinematography and who was the director. All of that. I just loved it.

Yeah.

Very exciting.

Pish posh.

Whoa.

Everyone's the same.

It was so fun.

Love you, too.

I do.

Love rules, love systems.

Before the premiere, Ben and I are gonna be binging season one and putting out daily recaps. And after that, we're gonna keep going as we recap every episode of season two. The Severance podcast with Ben Stiller and Adam Scott is presented by State Farm. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Listen and follow now on Apple Podcasts, the Odyssey app, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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It's better than a waffle party. Just go to ZipRecruiter.com slash severance right now to try it for free. That's ZipRecruiter.com slash S-E-V-E-R-A-N-C-E.

Oh, man.

It's so awful for her. It's just her entire life is Christmas with this dude. What a bummer.

Yeah.

What do you got there? Sorry, what do you got there?

You feckin' feckin'? Yeah, you can swear. You can swear.

Oh my god, spoiler alert, please.

Me? Well, yeah, this is a real treat. All quiet on the Western Blunt. drug use by enlisted soldiers during World War I. Now stop. No, that's what it is.

I couldn't agree more. I'm sorry, who are you?

That sounded really good.

Well, it was really fun and really informative, too, because it's such a huge part of Audi Mark's life, this loss. And up to this point, it had just all been in my imagination, just trying to fill that in. So getting to actually build it with Deidre and Jess was great.

But what I love about it, what I loved about doing it is like other things on the show, like you were saying, we kind of found the tone and the characters together. And part of finding that together is we get micro-specific about all of it.

And we need to because it's not the kind of writing – it's not like Dan writes in a way where it's like, well, I used to be a teacher and I'm not anymore because of this, this, and this. You know, it's not expo-heavy dialogue. So we as a team want to build everything as specific and big and –

complete as possible and then kind of decide how much of it we're showing and so this relationship it was really important to build exactly what it was and then in these scenes we got to see these nice little glimpses and I think just building such a complete relationship in such a complete world we could do these little flashes and get what felt like a complete picture.

Well, it was like spring was just starting and it was sunny and flowers were blooming. So we got a bunch of that stuff.

Today, we're talking about the seventh episode of season two, Chakai Bardo, written by Dan Erickson and Mark Friedman, and directed by Jessica Lee Gagne.

It was kind of like Bendo, but with a 16 millimeter camera.

Yeah. And it looks great too. Bendo did a really good job. I will say, because you won't do chin, that watching you go through everything you had to go through for this episode and just the parts I was in because they're all the testing floor stuff. That's a whole other chapter that is unbelievable that you went through all of that.

But the stuff we were doing, I felt like my job in that episode was just to like support you and make sure you were as comfortable as possible because of all the emotional and physical strain you had to go through to kind of hit these, because we're like encapsulating a period of years into one episode of TV. So you had to really hit these highs and lows.

And sometimes within the span of a couple of hours, we're doing the miscarriage scene in the shower. And then we're downstairs doing something super happy together. And it was a lot. And you were just hitting bullseyes and nothing but.

Well, the testing floor hallways are oppressive and white, but different.

Deachin, I'm so sorry. Ben just does that from time to time. He breaks into saying things are sponsored by other things. They are sponsoring us though. They are actually. Okay. But he does do that.

All right. Let's get some hotline knowledge.

Interesting. It's a good question.

It sounds like Zoe was basing her question on previous sort of peaks into Gans College, which is mostly at night when no one was there. I think in this episode, in seven, we're seeing it as sort of this colorful, bustling school.

There were ants in there. Yeah.

I loved shooting the first scene, our blood donation scene. That was super fun. The lumen blood donation scene.

Because beards are really difficult, and Judy Chin is unbelievable, and she was able to create a beard that looks real. Highly uncomfortable to have on your face, but looks real.

Yeah, Judy is the best.

Did she do your beard today? Because it looks amazing. She did.

Judy, could you come and just do a touch up real quick? She just does it for you every day. Okay, we got one more hotline question for you.

Yeah, what would you want one of your innies to know about you, Deidre?

That's practical. That's sensible.

You know, it's really, really funny that waiters love is if you're at a seafood restaurant and they ask that question, you say, I'm actually allergic to seafood. Or if it's a hamburger restaurant, you say you're allergic to hamburgers. They love it. Oh, my gosh. Thank you to Zoe. Thank you to Grace for calling in.

She's also our main cinematographer. Can't wait to talk to her about this.

And remember, if you want to call the postbox for Lumen Industries Severed Floor, you can call 212-830-3816. Deachin, thanks for joining us.

Congratulations to you. Unbelievable work. All right, let's break down the episode. A lot of questions start getting answered. Should we listen to our first peek into the testing floor?

Well, I feel like drowning and suffocating are one and the same.

Yeah, I guess I would first just say neither sounds great. No. But if Sandra Bernhardt was asking me that question, I'd be like, I don't know. What do you think? Because she's so fun. Yeah. And Sandra Bernhardt's character is named Cecily. Yes, Cecily.

Yeah, you're welcome, Zach. Okay, here is your spoiler warning. We are talking about everything from episode seven of season two. So go watch it before you listen to this. Can't emphasize that enough.

So much going on with Sandra in this role. It's so great.

And you're worried about timing I'm sure as well. Like when in the season you're exposing the audience to all of these answers.

Oh my god, well, if it's a choice between those two things, I think I would 100% choose Confluence by Atlassian.

Wow.

Directed many episodes of Friends.

Yeah.

I love seeing his attachment to Gemma grow over these scenes and shift depending on which version of her he's getting. In some, he feels like he can be more open about his feelings, like in the Christmas scene, for instance. Right. And in some, he feels he needs to be more of an authority figure.

He's yearning for something with her that is deeply unhealthy, but also not easy to put your finger on what it is he wants from her. Yeah.

Oh my God.

Yeah.

Yeah. That's super interesting.

And these are names we've been seeing over the course of the last season and a half. Yeah. Pop up on the computers.

I don't know. That's a good question.

Yeah, like she's home free essentially, and then she turns into Miss Casey.

It's really rough. And the relationship between Deach and Sandra is interesting, too, because like you said, there is like some sympathy there. There is they know each other. But ultimately, Sandra is her captain. Yeah.

It's far more intense than season one, I would say.

Yeah, maybe even something that we may have said offhandedly gets analyzed as if it were a window into another hint.

And just so everyone knows, we go through this show with a fine tooth comb. Exactly. To make sure that we're not leaking anything out that we don't want. Nothing.

Were your parents living in Kathmandu?

Thank you. Man, that was really great. So glad you two got to talk about this episode. Yeah. Jess is just such a terrific, terrific director. It's exciting thinking about her directing more in the future.

Why would we do that on the show?

Oh, he's for sure doing like six things.

I'm questioning his loyalty.

Okay, that is it for this episode, the Severance podcast with Ben and Adam. We'll be back next week to talk about season two, episode eight. And you can stream every episode of Severance on Apple TV Plus with new episodes coming out every Friday. And then make sure you're listening to our podcast, which drops right after the episode airs.

The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller and Adam Scott is a presentation of Odyssey, Pineapple Street Studios, Red Hour Productions, and Great Scott Productions.

Show clips are courtesy of Fifth Season. Music by Theodore Shapiro. Special thanks to the team at Odyssey, Maura Curran, Eric Donnelly, Michael LaVey, Melissa Wester, Matt Casey, Kate Rose, Kurt Courtney, and Hilary Shuff.

And at Great Scott, Kevin Cotter, Josh Martin, and Christy Smith at Rise Management.

I'm Ben Stiller. And I'm Adam Scott. Thanks for listening. And remember, nothing says Christmas like grouting. Or de-grouting. Or de-grouting.

Totally. That's how I feel too. Like if I knew at 18 how difficult or 20 or whatever, how difficult it would be or how long it would take, I don't know if I would do it.

So that would equal out, like if we're playing with like, let's just say 100%, 5.2 of those percentage points. Yeah. That's the improvement.

And did you know right away from the very start that Ms. Casey was also Gemma? Or did that come later?

I know, that's an honest answer. Yeah, it's daunting. I mean, the whole thing is you.

Surprise, surprise. Obsessed with the hair.

Yeah, there's something so, because you could see how a character like that could be like one note or an inch deep in one way or the other, but your Miss Casey is so deeply felt and such a whole person that you get the feeling that there is someone in there just aching to get out, like always trying to find her spot. And it's so sad, but also just so interesting

How did you approach her in particular? Because there's something childlike about her, but it's more than that too.

Today we're talking about the sixth episode of Season 2, Attila, written by Aaron Wagoner and directed by Uta Breschowitz.

Wow. I mean, before we get into recapping the rest of the episode, I just have to say that was amazing.

Unglaublich. Well, well done, Ben. All right. So we have heard what's going on with Bert Nerving this episode. Let's talk about what everyone else is up to. We should start with Dylan's Innie and Gretchen, who are back together in the visitation suite. That's right. I sometimes wonder if you're just not happy. I'm sure it's not that.

Ich verstehe es.

Ja. Es ist einfach so toll, Dylan so glücklich zu sehen und über seine Gefühle zu sprechen und sie zu erleben, ihre Liebe zum ersten Mal zu erleben. Aber auch Merritt ist so wundervoll. Und wenn sie in den Hügel gehen, er hat einmal einen Hügel gefragt und du siehst sie diesen Moment nehmen, genau vor ihrem Hügel, wo sie durch ihre eigene Erfahrung geht. Das ist so seltsam, aber so süß.

Ich bete, es war. Was für eine Ehre, ihn auf dem Show zu haben. Es war unglaublich. After that, Ben and I will unpack the rest of Episode 6 and we'll also hear from Sarah Bach, who plays Miss Wong, to check in on how things are going on the Severed Floor. Who has a real nascent career.

Und sie muss mit ihrem Mann anfangen. Sie haben immer noch diese Gefühle. Es ist so viel los. Es ist einfach faszinierend zu sehen.

Ja.

I was going to ask, is it an affair? Is that what this is?

Ja, ja.

Yeah, and the most important thing in the world to him is her. He is just smitten and is completely in love with her. You know, you can see in Merritt's performance just how good that feels. Und es ist so viel da.

Yeah, oh, Dylan's been compromised since Episode 1. Milchik really got in there right away and knew that this would work.

Heli, wir haben Fassade. Okay. You and... Like... Like in a wellness session?

Ja, Milchik schützt Marks Hand da mit der Bedrohung im Elevator. Wenn er das als Bedrohung benutzen wird, dann sagt Mark, er sollte ihr sowieso sagen, dass es die richtige Sache ist, aber Milchik scheint zu glauben, dass er es von ihr behalten will. Also, für diese und andere Gründe, in der Badezimmerstelle, sagt er ihr, dass sie, ähm, dass sie gemeinsame Wesseln teilen.

Wenn du es in einer bestimmten Art und Weise denkst, ist er 100% richtig. Worüber? Was auch immer, Mann. Ich glaube, du verstehst es nicht. Okay, hier ist euer Spoiler-Warn. Wir sprechen über alles aus Episode 6 von Season 2. Also schau es an, bevor du diesen Podcast hörst.

Ich liebe es auch und ich liebe, wie isoliert Helly aussieht und fühlt. Ja, ja. Und du kannst physisch sehen, dass Brit, sobald sie diese Informationen bekommt, sich zurückzieht, obwohl es nirgendwo zu gehen gibt. Es ist so eine Verletzung.

Look, I am so sorry. I can't even imagine what it must be like.

Yeah.

Willst du, dass ich beschreibe, was passiert ist? Ich fühle mich, als hätte du alle Rechte.

I love that. I thought that was such a cool... I remember reading that scene and being like, yeah, that's such a place of strength for her.

Yeah, Bo is one of our writers and executive producers for season two.

Yeah, because she and Mark were falling in love with each other and Helena decided to interrupt that and take it for her, steal it. And yes, Bo really was instrumental and really great with Mark and Heli's stuff and sort of from that clearing of the decks in Episode 4, really terrific with figuring out a way to get this relationship back on track and the direction to push it in.

How's things going with you, by the way? Everything's good. You know what I just realized is we are at the halfway point of Season 2. Right. Yeah. How weird is that?

Das ist richtig. Und es war wirklich wichtig für Brit und ich, zusammen mit dir und Uta und unserem NMC-Koordinator, diese zwei verschiedenen Lieblingsszenen mit den beiden gleichen Leuten zu kommen und sie sehr anders zu machen. Und sie sind sehr anders, aber... Sie sind beide wirklich wunderschön in ihrer eigenen Art und Weise.

Totally. Me too.

Als du uns gesagt hast, dass es nur die drei von uns drin sein wird, war es eine Erleichterung. Denn Lieblingsszenen sind immer seltsam, aber das hat es einfach einfacher und weniger zu bedauern.

Um das Bild ein bisschen zu malen, war ich auf dem Boden und Britt war auf meinem Kopf. Und plötzlich fällt sie direkt auf mich auf und Ben ist auf ihr auf. Und die drei von uns sind plötzlich in einer Pile.

Yeah, much different experience than going through Season 1, that's for sure.

Ehrlich gesagt, es fühlte sich an, als würde ein Ben Stiller-Film aussehen. Das ist das, was ich sage.

Ich bin so traurig, dass du ihn tatsächlich bei seinem Haus gesprochen hast und über diesen bestimmten Episode und seinen Charakter und so gesprochen hast.

Ja, Mark Friedman, der sich wirklich in diese Szene befasst, auch einer unserer Schriftsteller und Exekutivproduzenten, bezeichnete die Heatszene. Ich erinnere mich darauf, lange bevor es geschehen ist, haben wir immer darüber gesprochen, dass es die Heatszene war.

Okay, sure, let's do it.

Also kein Druck?

I love this scene. It was fun to do. And it was just fun to kind of get this new dynamic between Brit and I and kind of figure out what it would be. And it ended up being kind of having this charge to it. Like these two people, like, you know, Audi Mark is scared shitless of this person and has no concept of who she is to him on the inside. But she does, obviously.

And she knows they've actually slept together. So there's so much going on, but the fact that there ended up being this almost flirtatious charge to the scene was something that just really started happening while we were shooting it and felt really interesting.

Sie fängt mit mir an, Gemmas Namen falsch zu nennen. Was glaubst du, dass das ist? Oh, ich glaube, dass sie 100%ig mit mir f*****t. Sie toyiert einfach, um zu sehen, welche Reaktion sie bekommen kann.

Aber Britta und ich haben noch nie darüber gesprochen. Vielleicht ist es ehrlich gesagt, ich weiß es nicht.

Ja, aber weder einer von uns weiß das.

Ja, das ist ein Teil dessen, was interessant war, dass etwas da war. Und es war völlig anders als jede Verbindung oder Flotation, die in einer der Versionen existiert ist, die wir vorher gemacht haben. Es war wie dieses neue... Ja. Weirder, more lived in thing, because both of these people have lived a lot longer than the innies and the grownups more. It was just weird.

Great exterior too. Yeah.

Ja, es gibt einen Schmerz.

Yeah, I was just gonna say, I think it was Bugs Bunny.

Yeah, this has been great. But we've got one final treat for listeners this episode. We got to talk with the great Sarah Bach, who plays Miss Wong. So, let's go talk with Lumen's new deputy floor manager of the Severed Floor, Sarah Bach. Sarah, welcome to the podcast.

Same. Could not be happier to have you here.

Yeah, you're in your first year of college and the show just came out a few weeks ago. What has it been like?

I saw that on Instagram. Oh my gosh, yeah. Cool. Wow.

Because you don't live in like Hollywood or New York or anything, right?

So, we all know that Ben is just so mean, right? So that was your first taste of how mean he can be, making you improvise. Improvise.

Ich erinnere mich nur an dich, als du am Set warst, deinen ersten Tag. Und nur so beeindruckt mit dir, direkt aus der Tür. Du warst so drauf. Du warst eingeschaltet, so lustig, entspannt.

Yeah.

You're intimidating. You really are and were.

It feels like there is some sort of power struggle happening there.

Das ist so Christopher Walken. Und er meint es. Er meint es. Ja, das ist, weshalb es so Christopher Walken ist. Er dreht sich nicht um. Und das Ergebnis ist eine faszinierende Leistung. Ja, ja, ja, es war großartig.

Das ist unglaublich. Das ist cool. Du kannst den Severance-Thema auf den Theramen spielen.

But then you almost get to play at Irving's funeral and he stops you. And I think we really see Miss Wong's cockles go up there a little bit. She gets pretty pissed off.

Yeah, if you need any advice on studying, I'm here anytime.

This has been such a terrific episode, but before we go, we gotta make time for our friend Zach Cherry's favorite segment. Oh, of course. Where we check in with him and he has a prediction about what he thinks will happen in Episode 7. So, Zach, we're doing this for you. We know it's important to you, so go ahead.

I love thinking about the sort of broad, mid-aughts Lindsay Lohan version of Severance happening. I think that's a good idea. I just appreciate that Zach didn't end this one by encouraging people to reach out to us about various subjects. Yeah, I know. What is he talking about there?

I did an episode of that. Oh, you did? I did. You did so many cool web shows. Alright, man. Cool. That is it for this episode. The Severance Podcast with Ben and Adam will be back next week to talk about Season 2, Episode 7.

And then make sure you're listening to our podcast, which drops right after the episode airs. Yes. The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller and Adam Scott is a presentation of Odyssey, Pineapple Street Studios, Red Hour Productions and Great Scott Productions.

Music by Theodore Shapiro. Special thanks to the team at Odyssey, Maura Curran, Eric Donnelly, Michael LeVay, Melissa Wester, Matt Casey, Kate Rose, Kurt Courtney, and Hilary Schuth.

And at Great Scott, Kevin Cotter, Josh Martin, and Christy Smith at Rise Management.

Oh mein Gott, naja, wenn es eine Wahl zwischen diesen beiden Dingen ist, würde ich 100%ig Konfluence von Atlassian wählen.

Das würde also bedeuten, wenn wir mit 100% spielen, 5,2 von diesen Prozentpunkten, das ist die Verbesserung.

And today we're talking about the penultimate episode. I finally get to say penultimate this season.

Yeah, it's fascinating to watch the two of you grapple with this situation without saying a word.

Yeah. Did that word exist before like four years ago? I feel like I'd never heard that word until, I don't know.

That's true. So all season, we've been asking fans to call in with questions. And as you know, you were kind enough to record the outgoing voicemail message for us. Thank you again. Of course. Now, would you be down to give some Lumen approved answers to some of these questions? For sure. All right, let's listen to the first one.

Wow, interesting question.

Oh, wow.

I'd like my dogs to get severed and maybe the severed half of them would be trained and they would do what I say.

Will you take my dogs for like two weeks and teach them how to do that?

Well, it's really impressive.

I don't know what motivates them.

Very dog-like.

I love cats.

That is so deeply insulting.

I know.

It's far away. Can I tell you something that's going to blow your mind, Ben?

I'm in Ireland right now.

Wait, what? You're in Ireland? I'm in Ireland. Did you not see my sweater?

Um, so the thing to impress you, I'm in Ireland, they have the show here too.

Yes, we all have Irish accents. Incredible.

No. That's Australian for board.

Yeah, season two, episode nine, The After Hours, which was written by our favorite brain in a jar, Dan Erickson, and directed by our favorite brain outside of a jar, Uta Bresowitz.

All right. It's time for us to take a quick break. When we come back, Ben and I will talk all about episode nine.

It's time for us to break down this episode. It starts with our first peek at Helena's daily routine. She goes for a swim and then eats an egg with her dad. Let's listen to some of that.

She is so good.

You were offset. It looks like literally Ben's nightmare unfolding.

Yes. Odd.

Yeah, it's really interesting to see her kind of by herself. Clearly, at least as an audience member, I'm still reeling from what happened in 204. And clearly, she's been kind of forced to go back down there as Helly. And she didn't want to. She wanted to continue faking it. And she's been kept out. And her dad is clearly...

disappointed, upset, something is going on and he's certainly not being upfront about it. All that to say this breakfast scene is really potent because you can tell she is wanting something, some communication from him and he's not giving her anything.

That's right. And then after that, Ben and I will go through the episode. And finally, of course, Zach Cherry will be back to predict what's going to happen in next week's finale. You know what? I have a good feeling about this one. I think he's finally going to get it right.

Helly's looking for him. Milchick's looking for him. Drummond is looking for him. So we don't actually see what's going on with Mark and Devin until kind of deep into the episode, and you start getting this feeling that people are looking for him. Yeah.

Okay, so let's talk about what's going on with Mr. Milchick. He starts making moves inside Lumen, starting with getting rid of his deputy floor manager, Miss Wong. Let's listen to him breaking this news to her.

Oh my god, well, if it's a choice between those two things, I think I would 100% choose Confluence by Atlassian.

I mean, we've been seeing her take liberties here and there, particularly in conversations with him and sort of getting her cockles up a little bit with him, maybe inappropriately.

Like a broken clock is correct twice a day. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

For sure. And I almost feel like Milchik is just sort of, in this episode, taking charge of his own path here at Lumen. And Miss Wong, it's almost like she's just causing a little bit of drag on his aerodynamics of what he's trying to do. Sure. Later, he's sort of breaking free a bit and taking the reins a bit with his relationship with Drummond.

And here we see him unshackling himself from Miss Wong.

Yeah, I do.

So awesome.

Yeah, man.

Oh yeah. I feel like people are going to stand up and cheer when they see this moment.

It also, I think, points directly to the brilliance of Tramiel's performance here and just how deeply we as an audience feel for this guy who technically in the construct of the show is an antagonist of sorts. But, you know, it's what makes this a little more complicated is we're all on board with him as a character, even when he's doing things we don't quite agree with.

He's emotionally involving us to the point of rooting for him in a moment like this.

Oh, man. Totally.

So, Ben, what's new? What's going on?

Contained.

Yeah. Meanwhile, Dylan's relationship with Gretchen reaches a breaking point. She told her husband, Audi Dylan, that she's been meeting with his innie at the visitation suite, and he is not happy about it. So Gretchen decides to call it off with innie Dylan. Let's hear that.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, my God.

And I have to say... That's difficult for you.

Yeah. Yeah. Zach is unbelievable in this and Merritt as well on the receiving end of this proposal that she knows is doomed. And that Audi conversation in the kitchen is fascinating for the reasons that you said, like there's nowhere else where this conversation could take place except on this show in this particular circumstance.

And the fact that his reaction is the same as his Audi's reaction, which is I'm going to quit. Like they both have the same instinct for vastly different reasons.

He hits her where it hurts the most, which is Mark couldn't tell.

Yeah.

Really?

Yeah, he says he's just a driver.

And foreboding to affectionate. Yeah. In like the same sentence.

These two are just heartbreaking. And you find out about Irving here that he's never been in love before. He's never had this romantic love in his life. That's what he's saying to him.

Totally.

Oh, he was. Spike Lee was there.

I mean, I think these guys have a love for each other. Whether they both consciously can grasp it or not, it's there.

It's interesting how the reach of this company and what it does, it corrupted their relationship on the inside. I mean, it ended their relationship on the inside just as it was starting to bloom. And then on the outside, it's just completely seeping into both of their lives and corrupting anything that may be between them. Yeah.

I did. I love Spike Lee. And when I was a teenager, I got very into Do the Right Thing in the summer of 89. So when I started my junior year, I was wearing a neck's cap. I had grown a goatee. I had horn-rimmed glasses. That's a good look. And I considered myself an auteur of sorts.

Oh, cool.

Really? Yeah.

Wow. That's amazing.

Yeah.

I mean, Devin's decided. Mark seems pretty skeptical. I mean, the only time Mark's seen her is outside his house when he yelled at her and she almost ran him over. I think he just doesn't trust her at all. Like, what good can come from this, basically?

No, yeah, you're right.

Yeah.

Oh my God, so good. My wife's being held prisoner at Lumen, and I just got brain surgery in my basement. How have you been?

There's no need to... Oh, we're allies now. We're not neighbors anymore? Sorry, I just... I guess I'm confused.

Okay.

What file?

Yeah.

That's right.

Great.

Yeah, he just sort of lets it go. And I think it's really interesting because I think he's emboldened to loosen the reins.

That's right. With all that gear on.

Yeah, sure. Yeah.

There's nothing, nothing whiter than that dance. When we went to the Knicks game a couple of weeks ago, Spike Lee was there.

Well, I mean, I have a lot of thoughts just about cliffs, but as far as cliffhangers go, you know, I love a cliffhanger. What do you think about the cliffhangers?

When it's binged, there's no real point to a cliffhanger, is there?

They want everybody to come back and pay to watch the next one a week later.

I love it. I love that it spurs conversation. And I love it as an audience member too. I love a cliffhanger to kind of agonize over.

Well, I think penultimate certainly means that the next one has to be the ultimate. Because pen, the Latin root of pen, is what follows definitely is. So penultimate means the... No, I just made that up.

Right. It was Friday, January 17th.

Oh, interesting.

It was so fun because that whole week leading up to the premiere, we had the Grand Central Station thing. We were doing press all together in New York. So it was super fun. And it all kind of culminated on that night. And it felt like some people at the game had already watched the premiere by that time, Friday night. Yeah. It was just such a fun time.

Yeah.

Oh, man. Yeah. Let's do it.

Now, is this his final prediction or is he going to predict next week what happens in season three if there is a season three?

I think you're right.

And this will be the ultimate pen episode.

Me too. And I feel like I'm going to want him to start predicting things in my life.

Yeah. Yeah. All right, that's it for this episode. The Severance Podcast with Ben and Adam will be back next week to talk about season two, episode 10, the finale. It's almost here.

And then make sure you're listening to our podcast, which drops right after the episode airs. The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller and Adam Scott is a presentation of Odyssey, Pineapple Street Studios, Red Hour Productions, and Great Scott Productions.

And afterwards, Britt and I shared a ride back to our hotel and we stopped in Times Square because we wanted to get a photo of the Severance ad in Times Square.

Music by Theodore Shapiro. Special thanks to the team at Odyssey, Maura Curran, Eric Donnelly, Michael LaVey, Melissa Wester, Matt Casey, Kate Rose, Kurt Courtney, and Hilary Shuff.

And at Great Scott, Kevin Cotter, Josh Martin, and Christy Smith at Rise Management.

Thank you.

So then Britt and I were taking a photo in Times Square. We wanted to get a photo of that big- The billboards. Yeah. We stopped on the side of the road to try and get a photo of it. And suddenly we heard from behind us someone going, hey, Severance, that's you up there. Severance. And we were like, what? And we turn around and it was Spike Lee in his car kind of driving by.

And he stopped to talk to us. He's like, that's you guys. What? Oh my goodness. Yeah, it was amazing.

It was. So I got to finally meet Spike Lee and talk to him about how rad John Turturro is.

No, he was in the backseat.

So yes, he was driving from the backseat, which is really weird. You know, part of it that was so funny was his kind of amazement at us standing there and then also being up on the thing. Like he was getting a kick out of that. Like he was a kid.

We're in Times Square, Spike Lee, after a Knicks game. It was a big deal. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. We are so thrilled to welcome our guest today, the incredible Sydney Cole Alexander, who plays Natalie. She's here with us on the podcast. Sydney, thank you for doing this.

So that would equal out, like if we're playing with like, let's just say 100%, 5.2 of those percentage points. Yeah. That's the improvement.

You know, I remember so many times auditioning and being so crazy nervous and so specifically hitting every beat I want to hit and purposefully performing each little thing nervously. And you're right that when you're relaxed, that's when it's over. You feel like nothing happened. Yeah. And it had to be boring and unspecific and shitty. But you were just relaxed.

And that's when it's kind of probably at its best and you don't even realize it.

Yeah.

Yeah, where you're a talking head on the local news.

And Natalie's smile, man.

It's like incredible.

I think we can use all dental terms with with Sydney and like you're really able to floss right in between the beats.

It's a hotel. It's like a manor that's been turned into a hotel. It's very nice. That's so cool. I went on a hike today around the grounds and I got lost. And I almost had to like call the front desk to ask if someone could come get me.

This message is brought to you by Apple Pay. I can confidently leave my cards at home because I have my iPhone. From grabbing coffee to catching a ride, I tap with Apple Pay. Add your cards in the Wallet app, and you're ready. Just double-click the side button, smile for Face ID, and tap to pay. Your card number and your purchases stay secured.

Pay the Apple way with your compatible device anywhere contactless payment is accepted. Apple Pay is a service provided by Apple Payment Services, LLC, a subsidiary of Apple Inc. Any card used in Apple Pay is offered by the card issuer. So for season two, Natalie really kind of has to shift her focus to Milchick a bit more than Cobell. So how did that change Natalie and what she was doing for you?

And the relationship between Mark and Rickon at one point was probably different than we see it in the show.

Can we listen to them?

Yeah. I feel like you and Dan have this special, like you're a great mouthpiece for this certain side of Dan. And I know how much he loves writing Ricken stuff and you're the perfect sort of cipher for all of that. Like you saying the hamburger waiter line and stuff like that It's just, it's that belly laugh that feels so good. I love it so much. And Rickon really just gets me every time.

Okay, let's take a quick break and catch up on Rikken's latest version of the UUR. And when we come back, we'll talk all about it.

And these stances that were so easy to take before suddenly when faced with the kind of reality of something, it gets a little fuzzier and more dicey completely.

Can I ask Jen Tulloch, just the greatest. Can we ask what a gift about working with Jen?

Yeah, I remember we needed that prop. So you guys went and shot those photos before you had ever shot anything for the show, Michael. So I remember seeing the book and being like, oh, yeah, this is this feels right.

Yeah. It's amazing to hear people reacting rather than like reading reactions, you know?

I mean, it's really great.

Michael, thank you so much for coming and doing the show.

Ben, before we take a break, why don't we answer a question from the hotline? What do you say?

This hotline segment of the Severance podcast is sponsored by Confluence by Atlassian, the connected workspace where teams can create, organize, and deliver work like never before. Set knowledge free with Confluence.

Oh, Emma. Melon catching some strays.

What would happen to you if you were forced to eat a scotch egg?

Okay.

You know, I remember also Zach and Britt were vegans, so they couldn't eat eggs. So didn't you guys have to find someone who made vegan replicas of eggs?

I enjoy cantaloupe cut into like circular shapes.

Well, I guess that's it.

All right. It's time for us to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

Oh my god, well, if it's a choice between those two things, I think I would 100% choose Confluence by Atlassian.

Okay, it's time for us to dive into the rest of the episode where we see the fallout from last episode's somewhat disastrous orc bow, starting with Heli slash Helena back at Lumen slash MDR. Helena is not happy about having to go back down there. Let's listen to the scene where Mr. Drummond basically tells Helena that she has to make this sacrifice for Lumen.

Yeah.

Dari is so good. Oh my God.

It seems like he has quite a bit of power.

Yeah. But something he's kind of not saying either out of politeness or deference is that she fucked up too. Like she got found out. She didn't pull it off. So that's true. That's part of what's going on here too. And she doesn't, she doesn't like any of it. She calls any fucking animals, which is really crazy, but you can-

Yeah, they're not like a whole person because if they thought of them that way, how would they be able to do any of this?

Totally.

Think about that. I mean, this relationship has blossomed on her watch in an intense way. I mean, they got... physical and have this strong connection.

Today, we're diving into the fifth episode of season two, which is titled Trojan's Horse. It was written by Megan Ritchie and directed by Sam Donovan.

Yeah, and I remember it being really important to me that it not just be a situation where Heli's back. Okay, let's catch her up and just continue figuring stuff out. It's such a betrayal and such a... Mark's entire kind of emotional world was turned upside down. So there needed to be some trust issues there.

If you find out that the most important person in the world to you is not at all who you thought they were, there would be a strong kind of reaction in the other direction. And so, yeah, it's a reset for Helly, sort of a reset for everything, because all the progress that they'd made looking for Miss Casey is out the window completely.

You know, everything is sort of, the game board has been tossed, or whatever you say.

Dylan becomes hyper-focused on Irv and needing everyone to acknowledge Irv dying, essentially, and not getting quite what he wants from anybody. And Helly, like, no one's quite giving her what she needs either. She's like, what the fuck? I'm just like, you know, everybody's sort of off in their own world now.

Yeah.

Let's assume we haven't.

So exciting. Michael is the very, very best. And after we talk to Michael, Ben and I will break down some of our other favorite scenes from the episode. And of course, we're going to talk to Zach Cherry. We'll check in with him to see what he thinks will happen in next week's episode.

It was impossible to not laugh whenever he did that. And we did it a lot. And we had a tough time because it's amazing.

Nobody's even listening to what he's saying at this point, I don't think.

And the whole Lumen is listening thing is basically out the window too.

It's just like, oh yeah, that's all done.

And the printout that he's, you get the sense that there is a checklist for a bereavement ceremony and they're just running through it and getting it ready.

Oh my God, the watermelon head.

I could see John being the Pope. He could pull it off.

I saw Conclave. Yeah. Everyone's incredible. Totoro should have been in there somewhere.

I remember shooting that and just thinking, Zach is so great. Yeah. I love Ms. Wong and her theremin playing, how she just, the sound design on that one. I know you and Jeff probably found the timing of this. The one little peep of theremin we get before Milchick tells it. It's just a perfectly timed comedic.

Sarah Bach, the great Sarah Bach.

No, I think that I'm at a place where, or Mark is at a place where it's all a waste of time. Like, what are we doing? What difference does it make if we have a funeral for Irving or we don't have a funeral for Irving? He's gone. He's not dead, by the way. He's out there in the world. We're stuck down here. If we're here, sure, go do your funeral, whatever. He's just, it's cynicism.

He's experiencing cynicism, I think, for the first time.

I mean, like I said before, we are going to dive into this episode.

Yeah. And Helly feels hurt because no one is coming up and saying, hey, are you okay? Like, what are you feeling? Like everybody, everybody is deeply hurt and isolated.

Uh, like you, or you're like her. I don't know. I don't know who you are, I guess.

OK.

Yeah, no, no, totally. I get it. It sucks.

Doesn't matter.

Nope.

No, I don't. And let's just try to forget it. The bathroom scene between Brit and I was tricky to get just that tone exactly right. Kind of Mark's reaction to her and her approach to Mark. It was complicated and difficult in it. Very fine line, very subtle differences. I love that scene, but it wasn't easy to nail down.

Right, because it's a really important scene, not like eventful, but a really emotionally important scene.

Yeah. And I think up until their conversation at the end, he's made a game time decision of let's just do whatever they say. It doesn't matter if we do one thing or the other. We're gonna end up right back at this spot. Might as well just refine and keep going.

Yes.

I do, and I think that it's in that last conversation in the hallway. But there's still this secret between them that Milchik exploits at the end that's particularly diabolical on Milchik's part, I think.

Yeah, he can't find an ally at all. He's just alone. Welcome, Mr. Milchik.

He's quietly questioning, which is what's so fascinating about it.

And that shot that in episode two, the shot of everyone going into the elevator timed with episode one, like that really worked and people found it. And I know how excited you and Sam were about that.

And he's without that now.

Yeah. And in three, when Natalie brings him the paintings- Tramiel is just so deeply excellent through all of these things he's going through. He doesn't have anyone to confide in or talk to, but we, the audience, we get let in on these questions that he's having, but none of it's verbal. We just experience it with him. Yeah. And he's so good that we don't need it to be verbalized.

But you see him going through it and we get it emotionally. Yeah.

No, he doesn't get anything.

It's shocking.

Yeah. I mean, it's post the conversation with Helly. It's after all this stuff, and it's just like – Okay, dude, I think that Mark is far more free to kind of call him on his bullshit than, or feels far more free to call Milchuk on his bullshit than he ever has. He has nothing to lose at this point, essentially.

I think Rigabi and Mark are opposites in a lot of ways, and she has no real, like, party manners. She's just all business, and I do not think they're best friends.

Karen Aldridge is just fantastic. I love Karen.

Yeah. And, you know, he knows that she's the one that was trying to reintegrate Petey and she's convinced him that she's figured it out since then because obviously it ended up killing Petey. But I think at the end of the day, him finding out that Gemma is in fact alive, this is a real piece of information. it's worth dying for.

I think that it is the most important thing, obviously, in his life, but maybe the most important thing, he has to do this no matter what. It had to be that.

Yeah, that was really interesting. shooting in the MDR hallways as Audi Mark in like those clothes and stuff. It was so bizarre.

I remember Sam had the Innie version on set while we were shooting the Audi version.

And seeing just the visual of Audi Mark down there is super interesting too. It's really weird. But yeah, and we shot all of that stuff

both innie and outie so sam would have me walk down that hallway and keep stay in the exact same you know trying to keep everything exactly the same in two different pieces of wardrobe so we could do those flashes back and forth and not have it be green screen or whatever but actually do all of it and it was really meticulous well you did that also in episode three when we did it for the uh

Yeah, because what we were figuring out and really zeroing in on shooting that scene was This is the first time he has seen Gemma in three years. And he's not looking at a photograph of her. He's not watching something on his phone. She is standing in front of him. And, you know, when someone dies, you're never going to see them again. And she's right there.

And yeah, she's dressed weird and hair is different and everything. But just sort of the emotional shock of standing right there with her. Or that's how it feels anyway.

You know, I would love to see a Lumen competition reality show.

I think he would have gotten further than Bo Bice. That's for sure.

I'll be your vehicle, baby.

Okay, and that is it for this episode. The Severance Podcast with Ben and Adam will be back next week to talk about Season 2, Episode 6.

Yeah. Just that scene in particular, see them at their lockers and stuff. That was really fun. But also, yes, getting to really dive into their Audis is so fun. It's just fascinating getting to know them better. And speaking of people in the outside world, today we have with us our very own Michael Chernus, who plays Rickon.

And then make sure you're listening to our podcast, which drops right after the episode airs. The Severance Podcast with Ben Stiller and Adam Scott is a presentation of Odyssey, Pineapple Street Studios, Red Hour Productions, and Great Scott Productions.

Music by Theodore Shapiro. Special thanks to the team at Odyssey, Maura Curran, Eric Donnelly, Michael LeVay, Melissa Wester, Matt Casey, Kate Rose, Kurt Courtney, and Hilary Shuff.

And at Great Scott, Kevin Cotter, Josh Martin, and Christy Smith at Rise Management.

And I'm Adam Scott, and I agree that it's been super fun. And remember, everyone, that your Audi once captured a butterfly, and you can too. Thank you. Bye.

If there are podcasts in the Severance world, I'll bet you anything Rickon has one.

So that would equal out, like if we're playing with like, let's just say 100%, 5.2 of those percentage points. Yeah. That's the improvement.

Yeah, and Rickon is such a unique character in the outside world because in the Audi world, it tends to get smaller and more almost naturalistic, and it's just a slightly different character.

different almost tone but it just feel it does feel like a separate world from the any world certainly and Ricken is a character who it's such a specific finely tuned performance that you give because you could see this character being pushed way too far in one direction or the other and not quite working and

But you're able to really ride this line between him being ridiculous sometimes, but still both feet being planted on the ground. Because you have to buy that he's a part of this sort of more grounded, naturalistic world out there. But he's also sort of has this larger than life persona that he's really pushing out there.

And he's married to this woman who's incredibly grounded and holding them both down. What was, was there a balance there when you approach to the world?

It's just fascinating. And there's nothing that makes me laugh harder whenever we're working than Rickon, but also it's just so fascinating whenever we get that peek behind his sort of grandiosity, like in the finale of season one, where Ian E. Mark and Ricken have that moment outside where Ricken is kind of like, I know you think I'm a fool.

And you kind of see his humanity, certainly, but you also see shades of these two guys that have known each other for a long time and maybe shift or change they've kind of gone through together. It really is an incredible performance, the fact that you're able to do so many things at once.

I remember early on having conversations with us here and then Dan and Jen as well talking about the foursome of these two couples. And when Gemma passed away, it was kind of this schism. It was this change. There's this kind of dividing line. And Mark certainly went in his direction. And Devin went to maybe take care of Mark and Rickon had his own reaction.

And was the town essentially in the episode, is it as you found it or like the coffee shop, for instance, was that an existing structure?

Very different from Mrs. Salve, I have to say.

I think they sound delicious.

And today we're talking about the eighth episode of season two, Sweet Vitriol, written by Adam County and K.C. Perry and directed by Ben Stiller.

Fine, then buy me a coffee. Harmony is hardcore. She wakes up in her car, brushes her teeth in the parking lot, and then doesn't even want coffee.

So great. It's amazing watching you guys when you're talking in the parking lot. The dialogue is so minimal, but there is so much there and you completely get U2. You completely get it just watching your faces.

And who was that woman in the trippy pot?

I rewound her stuff today. I was just.

You can top me off anytime.

You see that Hampton has a bit of a drug issue. He's huffing ether. But he also seems to be the supplier or the dealer of ether at the coffee shop. Am I right? He is. Yeah, he's dealing.

Yeah, he sure is. This town seems to have been kind of hollowed out by lumen, certainly, but also by ether. It was an ether factory that everybody was working at.

All right. This is what we deal with, folks. Are you going to block this out eventually?

Oh, yeah. And the moment you see her, you know that she is related to Harmony Cobell. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. You see Harmony kind of seek that from her a few different ways throughout the episode. Yeah. And she doesn't give it up.

Yeah, he's going to help us answer some of your hotline questions.

Yeah. And you even see you present this to Sissy. It was all me. And she looks at the notebook and you can see on Jane's face, she's learning this for the first time and she is absolutely astounded by it, but then immediately turns again and tries to burn the thing. It's wild. And you see Harmony abandoned.

So great to have you.

And the drawings and the paintings are amazing.

Every time I see one on Instagram, I take a screenshot of it just so I have a collection of all of these. Oh, that's so cool. There's so much creativity just kind of being spurned. What's Instagram? It's an app. Do you want to explain it, Patricia?

Where are you? Who are you?

Thanks, Patricia.

All right, let's take a break. And when we come back, Jimmy Kimmel will be here to answer some of your hotline questions.

That's so much better than either of ours. We do that, Patricia.

No, she's doing it from now on.

Especially if you're like seven weeks ahead of everyone else, it kind of sucks.

Oh my god, well, if it's a choice between those two things, I think I would 100% choose Confluence by Atlassian.

Do you like to wait until it's going out into the world before you see anything?

No, yes. Not something wrong, but- No, definitely something wrong.

Towards a television to watch themselves? Yeah. A little mouse?

There's just a DVD player like in seventh grade.

Mice hate seeing themselves on TV shows.

Did you ever see Escape at Dannemora?

Right. It's a matter of accepting your circumstances and then going from there and how you choose to do that.

Okay, good.

Wow. That's incredible. I wonder if that changed. I wonder if it was the same ending that they ended up.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay, Jimmy, so in the spirit of your days as a DJ, let's go to callers from the hotline. Yeah, sure. Shall we play the first one?

Wow, we're so young.

What kind of atmosphere does Eric think we're making the show in?

Oh, no.

Did it make you sick?

You can nail it to things. I feel like you were probably in your 20s or early 30s, right? I was in my mid-30s, yeah.

And do you want me to define shambolic rube and fetid moppet, or shall we just let ourselves use it? I'd like to know. Okay. A shambolic rube literally means disorganized country bumpkin. A disorganized country bumpkin. A fetid moppet is a smelly child. So those are your choices.