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The headline is the Trump administration and how its crackdown on DEI is rippling through companies. This is what HR executives and CEOs are thinking about. It's what lawyers are talking about. For my world, writing about big companies, this is the issue of the moment.

The headline is the Trump administration and how its crackdown on DEI is rippling through companies. This is what HR executives and CEOs are thinking about. It's what lawyers are talking about. For my world, writing about big companies, this is the issue of the moment.

Welcome to The Journal, our show about money, business, and power. I'm Jessica Mendoza. It's Monday, January 27th. Coming up on the show, Trump is unwinding DEI programs and it's reshaping corporate America. DEI can elicit some strong opinions. I asked our colleague Chip Cutter to unpack the concept for me. How would you define the term?

Welcome to The Journal, our show about money, business, and power. I'm Jessica Mendoza. It's Monday, January 27th. Coming up on the show, Trump is unwinding DEI programs and it's reshaping corporate America. DEI can elicit some strong opinions. I asked our colleague Chip Cutter to unpack the concept for me. How would you define the term?

Welcome to The Journal, our show about money, business, and power. I'm Jessica Mendoza. It's Monday, January 27th. Coming up on the show, Trump is unwinding DEI programs and it's reshaping corporate America. DEI can elicit some strong opinions. I asked our colleague Chip Cutter to unpack the concept for me. How would you define the term?

Yeah, well, DEI is really kind of an umbrella term for policies designed to create more opportunities for minorities or underrepresented groups and to make sure that women could advance in corporate America.

Yeah, well, DEI is really kind of an umbrella term for policies designed to create more opportunities for minorities or underrepresented groups and to make sure that women could advance in corporate America.

Yeah, well, DEI is really kind of an umbrella term for policies designed to create more opportunities for minorities or underrepresented groups and to make sure that women could advance in corporate America.

And advocates of DEI programs have long said that efforts like unconscious bias training or recruiting from historically black colleges and universities, they're all intended to make personnel decisions more meritocratic by ensuring that someone's identity doesn't end up holding them back.

And advocates of DEI programs have long said that efforts like unconscious bias training or recruiting from historically black colleges and universities, they're all intended to make personnel decisions more meritocratic by ensuring that someone's identity doesn't end up holding them back.

And advocates of DEI programs have long said that efforts like unconscious bias training or recruiting from historically black colleges and universities, they're all intended to make personnel decisions more meritocratic by ensuring that someone's identity doesn't end up holding them back.

And so just to be clear, the argument is that this is going to make the system more merit-based because it opens doors for people who have historically been marginalized.

And so just to be clear, the argument is that this is going to make the system more merit-based because it opens doors for people who have historically been marginalized.

And so just to be clear, the argument is that this is going to make the system more merit-based because it opens doors for people who have historically been marginalized.

That's exactly right. I mean, it's the idea that there are bias in all sorts of decisions and that these DEI programs are meant to create an environment where people can feel included, that they can sort of all have equal chances to succeed.

That's exactly right. I mean, it's the idea that there are bias in all sorts of decisions and that these DEI programs are meant to create an environment where people can feel included, that they can sort of all have equal chances to succeed.

That's exactly right. I mean, it's the idea that there are bias in all sorts of decisions and that these DEI programs are meant to create an environment where people can feel included, that they can sort of all have equal chances to succeed.

And so what is the counterargument to that?

And so what is the counterargument to that?

And so what is the counterargument to that?