Al Pacino

I wanted to ask you about Lucille Ball because obviously growing up, even though the show had long been gone, it was running constantly in reruns, I Love Lucy, and that was the format for the modern sitcom that has endured for 50, 60 years. And I know that she was very kind to you. She saw you as, hey, this kid has something. I like her. How did she reach out to you?

Mm-hmm.

Is it my first rodeo?

With Gail Gordon.

Please tell me it's the morning.

Okay, okay.

Yeah.

Yes. Yeah. Genius. Yeah.

Now, she sent you, I think, flowers every day on your birthday.

I've always heard it was your idea to put on the prosthetic fake booty. Is that true? That's a fact.

I love that you brought your friend in.

Okay. You just mean it's a compliment. What I'm saying to your friend.

Get your ass over here. Literally. Get your ass over here.

She walked backwards to get in.

That's how she got everything in life. She walked backwards. We deny this card. Oh, yeah? Check this out. Your card works.

Okay, let's talk about this. I have famously, I have no ass. There's just nothing back there. It's a straight drop. And I'm thinking I should get a prosthetic. Is there something they make for men now?

I don't know. I don't know what the right butt looks like. You want me to call my friend? Yeah, exactly. You should come. And I should say, I want this.

I can go get it. It's in the back of the car.

Just keep it with me at all times. You could borrow hers. Well, I don't, don't they make something for men?

You bet they did.

If I knew where that was, I'd grab it. I'd take it on vacation.

I don't want to talk about what I'm going to do to it. That's my business. You're invading my privacy right now. I buy two airline tickets and the prosthetic ass is in the other one. And we both have a glass of champagne. What?

You know, it's interesting because you're grabbed by the theater. You're this kid, as I said, who you start reading Chekhov. You start reading the classics, and it grabs you. You start seeing some productions. You get into theater. You have so many go-nowhere jobs just to stay alive. I mean, you're delivering papers. You're building superintendent for a while, but not a good one, I don't think.

You've played so many great characters, but in The Righteous Gemstones, I feel like the minute I started watching that show, and then you showed up. And I remember not knowing you were going to be in the show for some reason. And the minute you show up, I thought, you can't do The Righteous Gemstones without Walton Goggins. You have to have him.

Oh, I know this. He's in a hot tub.

And the viewer sees him.

You had to go to Chicago to find a dick? Yeah.

Yeah.

Top of his game.

True story. I did wonder. Because the penis is right there. Penis is right there. In high definition. Yeah, that's right.

Never, never.

Yeah, you can tell. And you know what? South side. Deep dish. That's a south side penis. Deep dish. Deep dish, south side. That's a White Sox penis. That's not a Cubs penis.

What's going on here? What are we doing here down south? Penis, shut up. You're ruining it. I just got out of a hot tub. Yeah. Gotta get a sausage.

I think we should address the elephant in the room. Woody, we started a little bit later than we thought because you had a bit of a tumble. Is it fair to call it a tumble?

I mean, you know. No, I saw that. There's a really old man who was like, I remember him. He was a terrible super. And I'm like, okay, take his Oscar back. Fine actor, terrible super. Christopher Walken, bad mechanic. Robert De Niro, that's just an awful substitute teacher. You know, it's like, what the fuck? What are you talking about?

Yes. And you were on a motorcycle. On a motorcycle. Yes. And is that your primary way of getting around a motorcycle?

We lost some time while people were figuring out, are you alive? Your soul had to reenter your body. Yeah. Did you think for a second when you were going over the hood of the Tesla, this is going to be a huge problem? Or did you, the whole time, were you thinking, I'm all right?

Your hand is wrapped up like someone in a cartoon. That's because I wrapped it. Is this true?

So let me get this straight. All of your first aid training is helping people in a way that will look funny. Yeah. It's not going to help him not get infected or anything like that. Yeah. You didn't set the bones in the proper way. You set them in the funny way. Funny way. Okay.

Sorry. This is fascinating just to be behind the scenes and know that you guys are both icons. You're on the way to do the podcast with your friend Ted Danson. You wipe out on the motorcycle. You hit a Tesla. You get it together. You come here. You need medical attention. So Ted Danson is the one that helps clean the wound and wrap you? Yes. Why haven't we called a real doctor at any point?

It's for hygienic purposes. It's for hygienic and also tax purposes. Thank you. So do you wear, what kind of protection do you wear when you ride? Whoa, whoa, whoa. No, no, no. We're not doing that protection. The other protection. Are you armored in any way? Are you wearing a helmet? I did.

Sad, and why sad?

It makes me sad. Does it inform what you might do in the future?

It should. It certainly should. Yeah.

You just switched. I had my cheering moment. Sorry. Literally 15 seconds ago, you said, I'm so sad. I'm so sad. I'm over it. You're my friend and I'm so sad. And then you're telling him to shut the fuck up. Right.

My sadness didn't play in the room. That is such a sick thing to say. Such a sick thing to say. Oh, wow, we're here in the ward with the terminally ill children. Hope you guys feel better soon. Tough break. Hey, that didn't play so well. Let me try something else. Hey, Timmy, how long you got? Jesus Christ, Ted. I know what you mean, though, Woody. There's something about Ted.

So you come along, you're doing theater, and then this thing that people dream about happens, which is you get noticed. Francis Ford Coppola is going to make The Godfather, and he says, I want this guy, Al Pacino. And the studio says, fuck you. We want Robert Redford. We want someone who's been a success. We want someone who looks a certain way.

Every time I've talked to him, see him out in the world, I'm immediately, I just get this calm. You have a very calming presence. And I don't, yes. Is some of it maybe related to the fact that you are so ubiquitous and well-known? Yes. But do other people say that? You'd be like an amazing therapist.

Now, do you suffer from this malady, or is the money just too much to turn down?

Really?

And Larchmont. Is this on camera, by the way? I think we're going to see this. It's comical. That's the thing one of the Three Stooges would put on their head. I know. Does anyone have an ice pack? I haven't seen an ice pack like that in 50 years. Not a bad idea, though. Does it look cool? Oh, yeah.

You know, people ask me all the time, they say to me, Conan, you know everyone in the business. And I say, thank you. And then they say, Larry David, is he exactly like he is on Curb Your Enthusiasm? And I say, yes, he is. You are exactly like that guy. You would claim that you're not quite that guy.

But the times I've hung out with you at parties, I feel there might as well be a camera recording this for HBO.

We want someone probably blonde hair, blue eyed, whatever. Sorry. Yeah, exactly. I'm looking at you when I say it. I'm sorry. They wanted me, actually. You know, my grandmother... I was eight at the time.

He's he's he's my hero. Yeah, he should be. Yeah. It must be nice, though, because you've carved that out for yourself. And then if people encounter you in real life, you don't have to in any way contort yourself to please them. Yes. You can tell them, I don't feel like taking a selfie. It's not really what I want to do right now. And they must love it. And they laugh.

The person was offended? The person seemed to have been a little offended.

Why? I don't get it. Yes. I think that's I think you're right. I think you are within your rights to ask who's coming. Thank you. Thank you. Because you want to find out. Also, I'm imagining you have enemies. Yeah. And you know, you want to make sure you're not walking into a party. I just made four more as I walked into the building. But, you know, you want to make sure. You want to know. Yeah.

Yeah. I want to know. It's like a mobster who's going to a restaurant, wants to know how many ways are there in, you know, if I'm attacked, is there a way out? You've got to know.

Yeah.

Let me ask you a question. And you, I want you to be honest. Yeah. You came to my house not long ago. You didn't know who was going to be there. Were you pleased? Were you not pleased? And you can tell me. Well. Were there enough celebrities to make you comfortable? Were there two, were there, you know, did you feel that it was a good environment, a good ecosystem for you?

Well, I wasn't sure, you know, you seemed happy. You seemed pleased.

But at one point I noticed that you had retreated to a separate area and you were just observing. You were eating your food and you were just observing other people. Well, as if you were, you know, looking at birds, you know, doing little sketches. And I wondered if that's normal behavior for you.

But what I'm saying is... I had to put it in. They don't want you, but... And I've seen the screen tests where they're saying, okay, well, how about... Jimmy Kahn is Michael Cole. How about, they're trying everybody. They're throwing everybody in there. But Francis Ford Coppola sticks with you. They start shooting and you can tell, you read in the book and it's riveting on the set.

You're on a podcast right now. How long is this going to go? This is our special five-hour salute. No, but it's not. It's a special five-hour salute to Larry David.

I have to have this. I have to have this.

It's brilliant. It's fantastic. Thank you. Thank you. I love that idea. I think we've all been there.

No, no, no. Everybody's aware. Also, does he flash a badge? Yeah. Does he put up a badge and say, this is over? This is over.

People are like, I don't know about this guy. I don't know about this guy. I don't know what. And you can feel it. Yeah, well, they were giggling. You heard giggling. Yes. So here's what's amazing to me. These scenes that I've watched and that everyone's watched in this room 100,000 times.

that are now iconic masterclasses in how you play a character, you're doing it and people are going, oh man, let's hope they get a real actor in here soon. Which is unbelievable to me. Was it that severe, Conan? I was an eight-year-old kid, but I was there. And I had a lot of pull with the studio. I called Paramount, and I was like, I don't think he's got it. Who is this?

Eight-year-old Coder O'Brien. What are you? It'll be a big deal someday, you'll see. We're not using a real phone. Why are you mining one with your hand? Oh my God. It's funny. But no, and the thing is, which is to me, I look at that performance and as you say in the book, your concept, which was clearly the right one, which is you got to slowly see. Yeah. Michael, come to this position.

And then there's the iconic scene where they're all trying to figure out, after Vito's been shot, what to do. And you are sitting there with your broken jaw and you say, okay, we arrange a meeting. And the camera's pushing in. I can't watch that and I can't talk about it without tingling because I think it is a beautiful way to tell a story through acting. But it takes patience.

Yeah, I'm glad to know that in coming up with who Michael Corleone was, you got your steps in.

They should make a Fitbit that tells you, you have achieved the character. 10,000 steps. Stop. Stop walking. Stop. Stop now. You've nailed Michael Corleone. You've got it.

You scared the hell out of me. I was on a bike with a friend of mine. We won't get into the exact, but on a, taking a bike ride with a good friend of mine, Brad, and we're going up. Yeah, maybe. And Brad Paisley. And suddenly this car, like a kind of a Jeep SUV thing starts coming. And all of a sudden the window comes down and you lean out the window and start yelling at me.

I did, I yelled at you. And you start doing some bit, which was really funny, doing a bit. And then my friend is like, That was Tom Hanks. Happens all the time. But you know what? It was like laughing. Like your head just came out of a... Knock, knock. Yeah, or it was like Batman when he was climbing up the side of a building and suddenly a window would open and it's, you know... It's Jerry Lewis.

It's Jerry Lewis. It's Tom Hanks. I thought I live the most amazing life where a darkened window can come down and a goofy Tom Hanks can pop out and yell at me when I'm on a bike.

Have you heard that halfway up that ridge, there's this place that apparently in the late 30s, you probably know about.

In the late 30s, some people who were pro- Hitler and pro what the Nazis were doing. So Nazis.

Okay.

They were members of the party. There were people who were...

sympathetic to that cause in the late 30s before america was in the war and they purchased a piece of land am i correct you are correct sir that they that they thought that they thought would be um a place that the fuhrer would like to hang when and if he comes to america maybe because he conquered it i don't know the whole story do you know the story it was owned by the german bund

So this is a place that, in our neighborhood, you go up this, there's this big hill, and... Did I say Jerry Lewis also lived in this neighborhood? And why did you choose to live here, sir? Listen, we have these meetings that are none of your business. No, but... This is my story, which is that they, that was something I've always heard.

And then occasionally you'll, you'll find that it mentioned that this piece of land lives and that maybe, and some people get the story, get, they get it wrong. And they think that Hitler spent time there, like in his board shorts, looking out at the Pacific, you know, come out for pilot season. Yeah.

Six pilots didn't get one of them. Not a one. It was almost a seventh friend. But anyway. But I'm with... I'm with my friend once, my same friend, Brad, that you saw. I'm riding, grinding up that hill on our bikes to just try and get to this very steep in parts. We're grinding along and then we're these two women, like blonde, 22 year old, I swear to God, wearing like bikini tops.

Very, and they just looked like they were just come from a sorority party. They flag us down like they were in trouble. And I said, what is it? And they went, do you know where the Hitler camp is? There you go. Where's the Hitler camp? About that. And I went, oh, ladies. Well, all right. Like, God, he's still pulling in the trim, that Addy Hitler.

When you get to the Mussolini cul-de-sac. Yeah, yeah. Take a left.

I'm going to switch gears here real quick.

And I want to talk about the Japanese and Jerry Lewis and 1944.

Yeah, I would act all the time. When Mom took me to the movies, I'd come back. Because we lived alone and there was nobody there to play with. So I'd act out all the parts in the films I saw. And I acted out The Lost Weekend and I showed it to my mother. My mother said, oh, what is this? And she started laughing. And then she'd show it to the families.

Or when I was somewhere, they'd say, Sonny, do The Lost Weekend. And I would do The Lost Weekend. And I never understood why they would laugh at someone in this predicament because it's where he's searching for a bottle of booze that he hid somewhere when he was sober. And now he couldn't find it when he was drunk. And now he can't find it. And he goes crazy opening drawers and stuff.

And I loved doing that. And they would be laughing, and I would say, why are they laughing to myself?

I sort of do.

Yeah, adult in crisis.

With real commitment, I was right there.

Yes.

Well, the only reason I stayed in Godfather I is, I mean, you would quit if you were in it. When everybody's over there giggling at what you're doing, you know, and the whispers on the set. I said, I don't want to be here. I said, I don't like being around people who don't want me around. I've never been that way. I just sort of shy off. I don't want to be there.

Oh, yeah, Godfather II.

Yes. He said, I just want you to know before you read it, they want to do it, and this is crap. And I read it, and he was right. It was not good. And so I just thought, well, and they kept upping the ante. They kept giving me more money. And I kept saying, but I don't want to do it.

And then finally when Francis, because Francis wasn't on the project, so Francis got on the project, and he cut them off at about $700,000. He said, no, he doesn't want money. He wants a good script. Stop giving him the money.

Yeah, well, he wrote it.

Yeah, with Mario. And partially, it was almost done, but me and Charlie still didn't think certain things were right. So me and Charlie went out to San Francisco, and we said, let's see if we can do this, you know. And Francis did... really a great job. And we just worked with him a little bit. And I remember thinking that was a very memorable moment. So then it was done. I said yes.

And it was a tough shoot for me because I just don't know. It was a time in my life where It's hard to describe it without lying down on the couch.

Of course, everything. I guess where my drinking had gotten to or all of it. I found myself in a state of mind that was... Oh, difficult. I took Valium. Remember those days? Oh, you don't.

Valium.

Yeah. I took that and drank at the same time, which is a no-no.

So I was a lucky boy.

Well, that's probably why I was so... But thank you for mentioning that. It just went very far. I went very far into it because I always thought by the end of... of Godfather I, it looked like Michael was starting to become encased in whatever this thing took over him, you know, this place he went to, to survive. to save his father's life and to continue his life. And it was a tough one.

Because I sort of see in Godfather II a man who's cutting himself off.

Yes, yes.

Yes, yes.

It had to. It had to. I've learned since when you play situations and people that are caught up in that web, it's best to be happy every day, sing cheery songs, and then go on. It's actually true. I've known some actors, very good actors, who just say, nope, nope, I'm just doing my thing. They could be dancing and singing and then just go right to it.

And at that time, I would do it now, of course, I'd do it. The more difficult the role, the more demanding or whatever, you go the other way. in your preparation. Because you got it all in you now. I mean, this, you know, I think just through experience and doing this, the saying goes, time keeps me green. You know, because when you are acting or that thing that we do, and after a while,

it gets there into the body and into the... It just... It becomes part of you. And you don't have to act anymore.

Thank you.

You too.

Thank you. I'm very happy to be here.

And I'm so tired of hearing you say that.

I can't hear you say that again.

I don't even recognise you anymore. I wish you were a completely different person.

Shh.

You're unlucky.

Wait a minute. You took Freddy in because the Corleone family bankrolled your casino because the Molinari family on the coast guaranteed his safety. Now, we're talking business. Let's talk business.

Is that why you slapped my brother around in public?

I leave for New York tomorrow. Think about a price.

Fredo, you're my older brother, and I love you. But don't ever take sides with anyone against the family again.

Yeah. It's interesting on radio, too.

Yeah, it does.

Yeah.

I know. I don't know how I did that.

To this day, what possessed me.

Well, I was in the situation, as they say, and I guess it came to me, you know, because things like that happen if you, you know, stay the course. Meaning if you are with whoever you are when you're playing it, and your instincts are operating. I guess I was lucky, and I just went in that direction. I didn't do it consciously.

Yeah. Yeah. We would go there and throw, like, lettuce at them and stuff. And they always wanted to kill us, but they couldn't catch us. We would do it on occasion, on occasion. We didn't do it a lot, but when we did, I remember it.

God only knows because everybody else was doing it. It was something we were all doing together like we were in an orchestra. We just would go up there and like part of growing up where I was was being chased. That was the fun of everything.

By anybody that we screwed around with. And, you know. That's how we did. We didn't only do these things. I'm sorry. They stand out from time to time. But I remember my childhood as running.

Yeah.

Well, I believe my mother. My mother just was there, and she just, no way. You know, it was just territory there in the South Bronx. They were calling me late at night on a school night, come on out, you know, who knows what they were going to be doing. I think it's in the book, too. And they call up, and my mother just said no. And I was so angry with her.

You know, all these things come back to you. I remember when 30 years ago, I'm in my house in New York, and I'm shaving to go to an event. I'm getting an award of some sort. And I was thinking about, what am I going to say? And then it just dawns on me, I'm shaving. You always see my face in the mirror. And I thought, you're here because of your mother. What's the matter with you?

I said, it's true. So I had this realization at age 52 that my mother was everything.

No. My grandfather and all my mother saw me. They both died before I became successful.

I think I was a year and a half, and I stayed with them for eight months.

Yeah. My father's mother and father.

I would imagine. Of course, I'm not very clear on that. I learned that after my mother had died from relatives that came to see me on Broadway. And it was just a revelation. And then a bulb went off in my head, and I thought, uh-oh, there it is. That's why I do some of the things I do.

I don't know, like the behavior I had and the way I was in life. And that started me. I went into therapy for the next 40 years.

Don't ask me about my business, Kate. Is it true? Don't ask me about my business. No.

Trauma. It's just trauma, you know. Trauma. We all have trauma.

Yeah, I didn't.

Of course. So I know that... My grandmother on my father's side raised me to the point where my grandmother and grandfather, that she had visitation rights in the divorce papers. She found out. And she was simply the most wonderful person. I think I went there when I was a year and a half. That's tough stuff.

Yes. Yes.

I was about six.

It sounded like a shot to me.

I couldn't quite at six. I knew something was up. And I was, you know, I lived with my grandmother and grandfather and my mother. And I remember them all sitting at a table. I think this was after the war. So my uncle would be there. My aunt would be there. Everybody was talking about what to do. And I remember sitting there and they let me sit there.

So I didn't quite understand what they were saying, but I knew it was a serious thing. But, you know, she came back. That must have been traumatizing too. But seeing her in the streets, somebody said to me as I'm running to see the ambulance, you know, we rarely saw ambulances coming on our block. And I saw it. And there she was on a stretcher going into the ambulance.

Oh, all right. As long as it's not a gun. I've had enough of those.

And I thought, of course, I couldn't believe it was my mother. These things don't happen to my mother, you know. And it was her, because they said, hey, I hear it's your mother, Sonny. It's your mother. My mother? I said, no, nothing happens to my mother. And I remember that feeling. And then the shock of seeing her in that, it was, as they say, surreal. But it's clear in my memory.

My mother was very smart. She read and played the piano. I mean, very poor, of course, but she was very... intelligent. And my mother decided to go to the theater and take me to Broadway shows, among other things. But she loved Cat on a Hot Tin Roof and those kind of shows. She was very into

Thank you. I'm very happy to be here.

And I was so angry with her. You know, all these things come back to you. I remember when about 30 years ago, I'm in my house in New York. I had a house there. And I'm shaving to go to an event. I'm getting an award of some sort. And I was thinking about, what am I going to say? So I started thinking. And then it just dawns on me. I'm shaving. I see my face in the mirror. And I thought...

You're here because of your mother. What's the matter with you? I said, it's true. So I had this realization at age 52 that my mother was everything, you know.

No. My grandfather and all my mother saw me. They both died before I became successful. Yep.

I think I was a year and a half, and I stayed with them for eight months.

Yeah. My father's mother and father.

I would imagine. Of course, I'm not very clear on that. I learned that after my mother had died from relatives that came to see me on Broadway. And it was just a revelation. And then a bulb went off in my head, and I thought, uh-oh, there it is. That's why I do some of the things I do.

I don't know, like the behavior I had and the way I was in life. And that started me. I went into therapy for the next 40 years.

It's just trauma, you know. Trauma. We all have trauma.

Yeah, I didn't.

Of course. So I know that... My grandmother on my father's side raised me to the point where, my grandmother and grandfather, that she had visitation rights in the divorce papers. She found out. And she was simply the most wonderful person. I think I went there when I was a year and a half. That's tough stuff.

Yeah. Yes. Yes.

I was about six.

I couldn't quite. At six, I knew something was up. And I lived with my grandmother and grandfather and my mother. And I remember them all sitting at a table. I think this was after the war, so my uncle would be there, my aunt would be there. Everybody was talking about what to do. And I remember sitting there, and they let me sit there.

So I didn't quite understand what they were saying, but I knew it was a serious thing. But, you know, she came back. That must have been traumatizing, too. But seeing her in the streets, somebody said to me as I'm running to see the ambulance. We rarely saw ambulances coming on our block, and I saw it. And there she was on a stretcher going into the ambulance.

And I thought, because I couldn't believe it was my mother. These things don't happen to my mother, you know. And it was her, because they said, hey, I hear it's your mother, Sonny. It's your mother. My mother? I said, no, nothing happens to my mother. And I remember that feeling. And then the shock of seeing her in that situation. It was, as they say, surreal, but it's clear in my memory.

My mother was very smart. She read and played the piano. I mean, very poor, of course, but she was very... Very intelligent. And my mother decided to go to the theater and take me to Broadway shows, among other things. But she loved Cat on a Hot Tin Roof and those kind of shows. She was very into...

Yeah, I would act all the time. When Mom took me to the movies, I'd come back. Because we lived alone and there was nobody there to play with. So I'd act out all the parts in the films I saw. And I acted out The Lost Weekend and I showed it to my mother. My mother said, oh, what is this? And she started laughing. And then she'd show it to the families.

Or when I was somewhere, they'd say, Sonny, do The Lost Weekend. And I would do The Lost Weekend. And I never understood why they would laugh at someone in this predicament because it's where he's searching for a bottle of booze that he hid somewhere when he was sober and now he couldn't find it when he was drunk. And now he can't find it. And he goes crazy opening drawers and so on.

I loved doing that. I think it's a memory. And they would be laughing, and I would say, why are they laughing to myself?

I sort of do.

Yeah, adult in crisis.

With real commitment, I was right there.

Yes.

Oh, boy. I feel like I'm in an audition.

I don't know what that would be. That was from a play I did called The King and I. Whenever I feel afraid, I hold my head erect. Whistle a happy tune so no one will suspect I'm afraid. The other one was, I guess, somewhere I have never traveled, gladly beyond any experience. Your eyes have their silence.

In your most frail gesture are things which enclose me, or which I cannot touch because they are too near. Your look will easily unclose me, though I have closed myself as fingers. You open always me, petal by petal as fingers. A spring opens, touching skillfully, mysteriously, her first rose. I do not know what it is about you that opens and closes.

I only know that the voice of your eyes is deeper. Then all roses, nobody, not even the rain, has such small hands. Ah, there it is. It's impromptu.

That's E.E. Cummings.

Yeah. I was in The King and I, so I remember it.

I was offered a musical. What was it? A big one. What's the big movie they made? Zorba the Greek, yes. They did Zorba, and I was offered to play the Alan Bates role.

It was Anthony Quinn and Alan Bates. They wanted me to play the Bates role on Broadway, Hal Prince, because he saw me in Indian Wants the Bronx. So he asked me if I would come in and audition. So I had to go with somebody who was actually turned out to be Marvin Hamlisch. And I didn't know at the time. And he wasn't well known at the time.

And I would go to his house, his apartment in Brooklyn with his mother and father. And I would practice, you know, with him. I never said anything to them. I just went in there and practiced. So there was a place that Mary Martin was on Broadway doing something, some play. I forget. And it was a kind of innovation. They had the piano on stage but hidden by curtains.

So that's where I auditioned for Hal Prince after working with Marvin Hamlisch. And I went into the theater. I auditioned with the song from Guys and Dolls, which is, Luck be a lady tonight, you know. And I started on doing it. And Marvin Hamlisch was supposed to be there. But I looked around and I didn't see the piano or anything.

And I said, you know, to the folks out there, I was auditioning with this guy who was teaching me how to sing. But I don't think he's not here now. I said, so I don't know. And all of a sudden I heard him yelling from behind the curtain in the back. I'm here.

I'm here.

So I thought, oh, I have to go through with this audition now. So I sang, you know, and forgot all the words. And I remember leaving. And it wasn't a good audition, if you know what I mean. And I remember leaving with him, and he said to me, you know, I thought you would maybe forget some of the lines, but you forgot all of the lines. I said, well, I don't know. I'm just not used to it, I guess.

But anyway, they gave me the part.

Well, the only reason I stayed in Godfather 1 is, I mean, you would quit if you were in it. When everybody's over there giggling at what you're doing, you know, and the whispers on the set. I said, I don't want to be here. I said, I don't like being around people who don't want me around. I've never been that way. I just sort of shy off. I don't want to be there.

Oh, yeah, Godfather II.

Yes. He said, I just want you to know before you read it, they want to do it, and this is crap. And I read it, and he was right. It was not good. And so I just thought, well, and they kept upping the ante. They kept giving me more money. And I kept saying, but I don't want to do it.

And then finally when Francis, because Francis wasn't on the project, so Francis got on the project, and he cut them off at about $700,000. He said, no, he doesn't want money. He wants a good script. Stop giving him the money.

Yeah, well, he wrote it.

Yeah, with Mario. And partially, it was almost done, but me and Charlie still didn't think certain things were right. So me and Charlie went out to San Francisco, and we said, let's see if we can do this, you know. Because... And Francis did... really a great job. And we just worked with him a little bit. And I remember thinking that was a very memorable moment. So then it was done. I said yes.

And it was a tough shoot for me because I just don't know. It was a time in my life where It's hard to describe it without lying down on the couch.

Of course, everything. I guess where my drinking had gotten to or all of it. I found myself in a state of mind that was... Oh, difficult. I took Valium. Remember those days? Oh, you don't.

Valium.

Yeah. I took that and drank at the same time, which is a no-no.

So I was a lucky boy.

Well, that's probably why I was so... But thank you for mentioning that. It just went very far. I went very far into it because I always thought by the end of... of Godfather I, it looked like Michael was starting to become encased in whatever this thing took over him, you know, this place he went to to survive. to save his father's life and to continue his life. And it was a tough one.

Because I sort of see in Godfather II a man who's cutting himself off.

Yes, yes.

Yes.

It had to. It had to. I've learned since when you play situations and people that are caught up in that web, it's best to be happy every day, sing cheery songs, and then go on. It's actually true. I've known some actors, very good actors, who just say, nope, nope, I'm just doing my thing. They could be dancing and singing and then just go right to it.

And at that time, I would do it now, of course, I'd do it, yeah. The more difficult the role, the more demanding or whatever, you go the other way in your preparation. Because you got it all in you now. You know, I think just through experience and doing this, the saying goes, time keeps me green. You know, because when you are acting or that thing that we do, and after a while,

it gets there into the body and into the, it just, it becomes part of you. And you don't have to act anymore.

Oh, God, on both of them.

Yeah, I had four strokes.

It was not fun. But at the same time, it was diagnosed as something else. And I thought, I'm having some ocular migraines, as it was. But it wasn't. It was something else, TIA. And they're small. They're sort of minor. And then it was happening with frequency. And it's the kind of a thing where all of a sudden, you know, you can't quite see. And then you can't.

quite speak you can't talk put words together that's kind of scary when you're driving a car so I thought this is something and it went on for about a half hour to get you had one of these TIA mini strokes while you were driving a car yeah I did oh it's lucky you survived that ah lucky yeah

I was standing there. I was getting—I had COVID, and I was getting—how do you call it? I was dehydrated, and so they were hydrating me. The next thing I know, I'm opening my eyes, and there's six paramedics in my living room. And two doctors dressed like they're spacemen, head to toe, with all this stuff over them.

I thought, what could this be? I just thought, whoa.

Yeah. Yeah.

I'm not crazy about it, but what's the alternative? I live in such a great place and such a good area, and I have friends, and that's good. And I go out to dinners with people, and... And so I'm fine.

I sure did. I really did.

No, I saw Marvin Hamlisch playing the piano. I'm just joking I get it you get it yeah I didn't see anything I opened my eyes I thought what happened that's what I thought and then I saw this And, you know, that's a new experience. I never had that experience. And then they started watching me and stuff and the recovery and all.

Well, it did have an effect on me. Yeah, that's what I'm interested in. Exactly right. I do think about now more about death. than I ever did before. And I think about, what is this? And how does one just understand it a little better? There's various ways, you know, and the best I think is not to think about it, but try that.

Well, I always believe in God. I mean, whatever that is. I always do. I always have. That's something that is whatever God is.

I think I got a little more concerned about it, let's put it this way, or I wonder about it. You know, I'm in my 85th year, so that's there. You know, when you talk to people, it's there. It's got to be there. How could it not be there?

No. Whatever time I have left, I don't think that way.

Well, yes. You know, it's a question of appetite and desire to do what everybody does, really. Sometimes you have appetite to go home and look at the football game, but appetite to take on something. as part of your history. I mean, I've been doing this my whole life. I can't think of anything else I would do. Sometimes you can't afford not to do it.

So you go do something and, you know, like they say at AA, bring the body, the mind will follow. So you go and say, I don't know that I want to do this particular role, but it's a good role and I'll bring my body and my mind will follow once I start to work on it. Those juices come and then the thing that goes along with it comes. That's how I see it. And if you're lucky,

You read something and you want to do it. You have an appetite to do it. So there are very few things like that that have happened to me in my life that I had the appetite to do a particular role. And usually those roles were failures when I did them. So who can say?

Thank you.

You too.

Yeah. It's interesting on radio, too.

Yeah, it does.

It really does. I was thinking maybe they'll do The Godfather on radio someday. Yeah.

Yeah.

I know. I don't know how I did that.

To this day, what possessed me.

Well, I was in the situation, as they say, and I guess it came to me, you know, because things like that happen if you, you know, stay the course, meaning if you are with whoever you are when you're playing it, and your instincts are operating. I guess I was lucky, and I just went in that direction. I didn't do it consciously.

The judgment was off on picking that scene, I think, because it's a scene of... You know, quasi-exposition. So when you're going through it, what are you supposed to do?

I remember them all, all of us, the young actors just doing that scene. And I thought, well, what can they see from that, you know? But somehow I was the lucky one because Francis always wanted me before there was a script.

Yeah, he always wanted me to play Michael. That was in his vision. Even though it wasn't in mine, I'll tell you that. I thought he might be making a mistake.

Well, I did think when he called me and told me that he was given the Godfather to direct, because I knew him like a year before that, where I went out to San Francisco to do something with him. And I saw where he worked and everything. the zoetrope with Spielberg there and Lucas and all those, De Palma and all those 70s filmmakers that were about to explode on the scene.

And I had met them in San Francisco. And he was getting to know me for another role he was doing in a movie that he wrote, Love Story, which never got off the ground. And I went back to New York and I hadn't heard from him in

about a year and then he called me and I said oh Francis I I spent some time with him three or four days so I got to know him a little bit and I thought this guy's got something very special and he called me and told me he had the Godfather I thought now he's gone too far

So I said, okay, I went along with it. But after a while, I started to think, wait a minute. I think Paramount is pretty smart to pick this guy because this guy... Knows his stuff. And it's an Italian-American. He understands it somewhere. They picked him. You know, he had won an Oscar already for the script of Patton, the George C. Scott film that was so wonderful.

And so he already was starting to establish himself in Hollywood. And then I started to think maybe he is going to do it.

Sure.

Tony told the old man to tell me, to tell you. It's what it is. What it is? It's what it is. Please listen to me. They wouldn't dare.

Please, don't say they wouldn't dare. Something funny happens to me. You understand that? And they know it. Because I got files. I got proof. I got records. I got tapes. Anytime I want, they'll be gone. These **** spend the rest of their lives in jail. And they know it. They know it. What you're saying is what they're concerned about. What I'm saying is I know things. I know things.

They don't know I know. Please. Do you want to take that chance? What chance am I in? Why should I be taking a chance? They're saying this is it. They're saying this is it and then it's it. Jimmy, I'm trying to tell you something. I know you are. You're telling me they're threatening me and I got to do what they say, which is absolutely right. It's the bottom line. Bottom line. It's what it is.

They do something to me, I do something to them. That's all I know. I don't know anything else. Do you?

Yeah.

I see all just commonalities there. It's like we've been doing this for many years. And even when we did Heat together, Bob said to me, it's a scene just between the two guys, if you remember, in Heat. And he said to me, let's not rehearse. I said, OK, let's not. So I went to the scene, and Michael Mann approved of not rehearsing.

And I thought it was a good idea, because these two guys didn't know each other. And we sort of knew our words, but so what if we didn't? We were there. And it went on. And that's the scene. And it worked. Because it worked because we were meeting for the first time in the movie. It's interesting. I was all ready to rehearse, and he said, let's try now rehearsing. Let's just do it that way.

See what happens. And I feel he was really right. So we have that kind of freedom with each other because we know each other from years of working. And, yeah, he's so easy to work with, Bob. You know, he just, anything you do or say, he's there. He hears it.

Yeah. Yeah. We would go there and throw, like, lettuce at them and stuff. And they always wanted to kill us, but they couldn't catch us. We would do it on occasion, on occasion. We didn't do it a lot, but when we did, I remember it.

God only knows, because everybody else was doing it. It was something we were all doing together, like we were in an orchestra. We just would go up there and, like, part of growing up where I was was being chased. That was the fun of everything.

By anybody that we screwed around with. And, you know... That's how we did. We didn't only do these things. I'm sorry. They stand out from time to time. But I remember my childhood is running.

Yeah.

Well, I believe my mother. My mother just was there, and she just, no way. There's scenes in the book that reflect that. It was just territory there in the South Bronx. They were calling me late at night on a school night. And to come on out, you know, who knows what they were going to be doing. I think it's in the book, too. And they call up, and my mother just said no.