Alan Kohler

The council has developed something called the Housing Outcomes Framework.

What is that and what does it show?

Right.

And homelessness is getting worse, you say?

Do you think there should be more public housing, government actually building houses like they used to do in the 50s and 60s?

What do you think?

No, well, in fact, what seems to be going on is they're requiring new developments to have, say, 10% social and affordable housing.

Do you think that's actually making a difference?

So you've been chairing this National Housing Supply and Affordability Council for, what, three and a half years now?

That's right.

I mean, it was basically born out of the National Housing Accord, right?

So, I mean, how do you feel about it?

I mean, have you been enjoying it?

Is it something you feel like it's making a difference?

Yeah, and I suppose the core of the problem is that the house price-to-income ratio has gone from four times to eight or nine times, depending on where you live, and I think it's even above 10 times in Sydney.

I mean, I suppose the question is do you think that given all the things that are being done now, including your work, that that ratio, the ratio of housing to incomes, will go back to what it was or is Australia going to have to get used to the way it is now and just hope that we can keep it where it is rather than increase that ratio even further?

What do you think we can expect to do?

What does that mean for the country, do you think?

I mean, because with the ratio where it is, everyone talks about an affordability crisis.

So are we basically looking forward to a permanent crisis?