Alan Milburn

About 80% of kids who are on child DLA then go on to adult PIP, which is the adult benefit for children.

people with health and disability issues.

And then you're in the system and you're in the benefit system.

What we should be asking is a different question, which is what can you do and how can we help you?

How can we support you?

And if you need a bit of mental health counselling or support, can we make that available to you?

Can you work a few hours rather than having to work 40 hours?

If you do that, the benefit system currently penalises you, which is crazy.

Could you do an apprenticeship?

Oh, you go on an apprenticeship, you lose your benefits.

This is mad.

Seriously, when you look at the system through that lens, it isn't a system and it's not incentivising young people to go into work.

A hundred percent.

Absolutely.

And it needs, I think, probably to be quite profound.

So we're looking at that now, what that could look like.

But that's only, by the time you get into the welfare system, that's a failure.

Okay.

That's the critical thing.

To use the sort of jargon, it's what happens upstream that counts.