Alan Sisto

So in the text as published, in the actual canonical legendarium, if you want to call it that, it was only after that

arrival to Isengard and the argument and then the imprisonment in Orthanc that Gandalf understood Saruman's treachery.

But I've got a question for you.

Is there a way we can reconcile what Tolkien wrote in that passage about Gandalf suspecting that he wanted the One Ring and

with this?

Is there enough of a difference between the obsession with the rings and full-blown treachery?

Or is it just the mere fact that he desired to have the ring 150 years ago is enough for Gandalf to not do this in The Lord of the Rings?

Exactly.

Yeah.

If I think you're in doubt, I'm not going to give you a chance to prove it.

And I mean, maybe if I could bring Galadriel and Celeborn with me and Elrond and we all show up.

An impromptu white council meeting.

Yeah, there was a local Starbucks down the road.

We just had a coffee and now we're, we just thought we'd stop by and say hi.

What are you, you're not going to find out.

In fact, if anything, you need to go to the Shire because that's where you're needed more than, than to Saruman.

If you, if you doubt Saruman.

Yeah.

And you already know that Saruman has gone to the Shire and is interested at least in, I mean, that's bad.

Let's just have this meeting via, uh, you know, uh, Osan way, you know, I'll just ring you up.