Alan Sisto

You know, like the last thing he'd want is attention on the concept even.

But Saruman really held on to this moment because here we are in 2851, Gandalf blowing the smoke rings and Saruman trying to read a message.

Bilbo and Frodo get involved with all this.

So now we're talking about 3018.

So we're talking about, you know, 150 years later, Saruman figures Gandalf knew even then, or he foresaw it somehow.

And not just that Gandalf knew, but he kept that knowledge from himself and from the council and,

All because, and again, he's just weaving these super complicated reasons.

Oh, Gandalf must have known and he must have kept it secret from the council and he must have kept it secret because he was trying to delay me because he wanted the ring for himself.

I mean, it's just, it's, it's funny in a way.

Like, how do you walk yourself down this road?

No, but logic isn't in the moment there.

Right, yeah.

Your brain just starts running with these massive fears and thinking worst case scenario.

But unlike Saruman, folks who deal with that are the victims of that, whereas Saruman is like his own worst enemy.

And, yeah, you know what?

In a way, that's exactly what's happening here because Saruman is afraid.

It's fear that's driving this.

And, yeah, it's – and, of course, Saruman thinks like – everybody thinks like he does.

So that's the thing, right?

It's an echo of that earlier line we read.