Alan Sisto

Because they swapped out the movies, Alan.

And though the text that we're going to read today is relatively short, in fact, it's shorter than some of the other versions, Christopher says, it is also the most finished, which, let's be honest, isn't saying a lot.

Right.

They're not the unfinished tales for nothing.

It does seem that way, doesn't it?

He's completely driven by this obsession with Gandalf.

And it's an awful place to be, but yeah, it's exactly free for him.

The jealousy, of course, leads to hatred, and hatred leads to the dark side.

I mean, wrong fandom, but it's true.

It's the letters that we wrote, Matt.

That's how it works.

It leads to suffering.

That's right.

But yeah, the jealousy does lead to an absolute hatred of Gandalf.

A hatred that Tolkien says is hidden and that makes the hatred even deeper.

It just keeps gnawing at him.

And it's a bitter hatred because Saruman knows, and you know, he can't stand this.

Like he would never consciously admit this, but Saruman is aware that Gandalf is both stronger and more influential.

Yeah.

Saruman is just petty.