Alastair Blanshard

Yeah, so Thucydides says, you know, that never had Athens experienced such a great defeat, and this was the greatest defeat of the Peloponnesian War.

Yeah, so Thucydides says, you know, that never had Athens experienced such a great defeat, and this was the greatest defeat of the Peloponnesian War.

And so, I mean, what happens really is that the fleet gets trapped in the great harbor of Syracuse, and then they're forced to abandon the fleet and commence a sort of death march, really, as it turns out, across Sicily, harried by the Syracusans and Spartan forces. So eventually they're all captured. forced to work in the mines.

And so, I mean, what happens really is that the fleet gets trapped in the great harbor of Syracuse, and then they're forced to abandon the fleet and commence a sort of death march, really, as it turns out, across Sicily, harried by the Syracusans and Spartan forces. So eventually they're all captured. forced to work in the mines.

And so, I mean, what happens really is that the fleet gets trapped in the great harbor of Syracuse, and then they're forced to abandon the fleet and commence a sort of death march, really, as it turns out, across Sicily, harried by the Syracusans and Spartan forces. So eventually they're all captured. forced to work in the mines.

Part of what's driving this is an inability for Athens, once it's committed, to pull back. We always think of the Spartans as the people who don't retreat. But in Athenian democracy, there's a problem, which is that if you're an unsuccessful general, the first thing that happens when you arrive back in Athens is you're put on trial. This means that if you're a general, you're really reluctant

Part of what's driving this is an inability for Athens, once it's committed, to pull back. We always think of the Spartans as the people who don't retreat. But in Athenian democracy, there's a problem, which is that if you're an unsuccessful general, the first thing that happens when you arrive back in Athens is you're put on trial. This means that if you're a general, you're really reluctant

Part of what's driving this is an inability for Athens, once it's committed, to pull back. We always think of the Spartans as the people who don't retreat. But in Athenian democracy, there's a problem, which is that if you're an unsuccessful general, the first thing that happens when you arrive back in Athens is you're put on trial. This means that if you're a general, you're really reluctant

to come back with a defeat. You're also reluctant, I think, to retreat because your political opponents are just waiting there to charge you with having been bribed by the enemy forces. This seems to be what happens in Sicily. Their generals wanted to get out, but they couldn't because of the fear of what recriminations would be back for them in Athens.

to come back with a defeat. You're also reluctant, I think, to retreat because your political opponents are just waiting there to charge you with having been bribed by the enemy forces. This seems to be what happens in Sicily. Their generals wanted to get out, but they couldn't because of the fear of what recriminations would be back for them in Athens.

to come back with a defeat. You're also reluctant, I think, to retreat because your political opponents are just waiting there to charge you with having been bribed by the enemy forces. This seems to be what happens in Sicily. Their generals wanted to get out, but they couldn't because of the fear of what recriminations would be back for them in Athens.

Yes, and they're starting to question even their government as well. So in the wake of the 415 expedition, they institute some democratic reforms or reforms to the way they're going to hold and run their democracy. So they're going to try and put some brakes on any kind of impetuous decisions. They're going to have their agendas be thoroughly vetted before they go to voting on the assembly agenda.

Yes, and they're starting to question even their government as well. So in the wake of the 415 expedition, they institute some democratic reforms or reforms to the way they're going to hold and run their democracy. So they're going to try and put some brakes on any kind of impetuous decisions. They're going to have their agendas be thoroughly vetted before they go to voting on the assembly agenda.

Yes, and they're starting to question even their government as well. So in the wake of the 415 expedition, they institute some democratic reforms or reforms to the way they're going to hold and run their democracy. So they're going to try and put some brakes on any kind of impetuous decisions. They're going to have their agendas be thoroughly vetted before they go to voting on the assembly agenda.

There's, I think, increasingly a dissatisfaction with democratic politics and with democracy as an idea. We see the rise of increasingly violent political clubs happening in Athens. So yes, there's a real problem there, I think, and certainly a lot of the kind of Athenian sense of certainty about their position in the world and their own natural superiority, I think, takes a bit of a blow.

There's, I think, increasingly a dissatisfaction with democratic politics and with democracy as an idea. We see the rise of increasingly violent political clubs happening in Athens. So yes, there's a real problem there, I think, and certainly a lot of the kind of Athenian sense of certainty about their position in the world and their own natural superiority, I think, takes a bit of a blow.

There's, I think, increasingly a dissatisfaction with democratic politics and with democracy as an idea. We see the rise of increasingly violent political clubs happening in Athens. So yes, there's a real problem there, I think, and certainly a lot of the kind of Athenian sense of certainty about their position in the world and their own natural superiority, I think, takes a bit of a blow.

Yes, I mean, Athenian ideology is all about Athenian superiority. These were the people who were literally emerged from the earth of Attica. That was their mythological belief, wasn't it? Exactly, that's right. They were blessed by Athena's chosen people. The agriculture, ground zero is Athens. Tryptolemus, the bringer of agriculture, is an Athenian, starts off spreading grain from Athens.

Yes, I mean, Athenian ideology is all about Athenian superiority. These were the people who were literally emerged from the earth of Attica. That was their mythological belief, wasn't it? Exactly, that's right. They were blessed by Athena's chosen people. The agriculture, ground zero is Athens. Tryptolemus, the bringer of agriculture, is an Athenian, starts off spreading grain from Athens.

Yes, I mean, Athenian ideology is all about Athenian superiority. These were the people who were literally emerged from the earth of Attica. That was their mythological belief, wasn't it? Exactly, that's right. They were blessed by Athena's chosen people. The agriculture, ground zero is Athens. Tryptolemus, the bringer of agriculture, is an Athenian, starts off spreading grain from Athens.