Alastair Campbell

Because

There's no more, there's really very few things I can think you can say of a prime minister than you're not keeping the country safe, which is, of course, what Kemi Bade, not the Tory leader, has leapt upon.

I think you talk about the politics of this.

I mean, I wouldn't rule out John Healey.

thinking that he might be a leadership contender.

I mean, John Healy is a very interesting guy.

He's been around for a long time.

And he's been a minister or shadow minister pretty much all of his career.

He came in in 1997 when we won the first of Tony Blair's three terms.

His background's in the trade unions.

He's a very pretty effective operator on

within the party.

And this thing literally came out of the blue.

I was at a charity dinner, Margaret McDonagh, the former general secretary of the Labour Party, who died of a brain tumor, and there's this charity that's been set up in her name.

And I was at it the other night with Fiona, and John Healy was there with his wife, Jackie.

I spoke to him briefly, and it now turns out this was Monday, and this was the day that he was first presented with the Complete Defence Investment Plan,

So he was obviously sitting there, didn't let on anything, but he was obviously sitting there really considering his future.

And if you'd have said to me at the start of this parliament, here's Keir Starmer's cabinet, assuming he lasts five years, who do you think is going to stay in the same job for the five years?

I'd have put John Healy in there.

We interviewed him on Leading.