Alastair Campbell

But it all went wrong when he ran off with somebody from his swimming club.

So she went through, and she's, I mean, she had a terrible car crash in the middle of all this.

So it feels like she's got a misery memoir to tell, but it's not.

It's like, it's how you keep going.

And she talks, she says there's not a single...

hour of the day that she doesn't think about her daughter, Ellie, who would now be 37.

And we've stayed very, very close to her.

She comes with us to Scotland every Christmas, New Year.

It is incredible.

And so John's death, her husband, who was my closest friend, and he died.

I don't quite know how you get over that, but she then had all the other stuff on top.

But I think it's important, the point about grief

I mean, you do get through it in the main.

People do get through it.

Well, it's very different, isn't it, with different people?

I think that's how you create a good death.

Another great book about this, Philip Gould, I've had so many close friends who've died, and he wrote a book called When I Die, because he knew he was going to die.

And I just think we don't talk about death enough.

We don't think about it enough.

We're scared of it.