Alastair Campbell

That doesn't necessarily strengthen Keir Starmer's authority, which has been weakened by the fact of Andy Burnham trying to get rid of him.

So let's say that then West Streeting becomes the name to go to for somebody who might challenge, or one of the others that we've talked about before, Angela Rayner, whoever.

So I think he thinks he can beat any of them.

Now, you may think that's crazy.

Um, but if you are, if you have, we're back to the, we're back to the Tom Baldwin thesis that he's always being underestimated.

It's almost like he's, he, he wants to have his back against the wall and that's when he comes out fighting.

That's when he thinks he can win.

Otherwise you would just throw your hands up and go.

So I, I, I think he does think that.

And I also think that, um, if, and when it comes to it, you see, um,

Who is it today?

Penny Mordaunt.

Penny Mordaunt put out a statement saying, well done, John Healy.

At last, somebody putting country first, party second.

And if you remember, that was one of the big messages from Keir Starmer in the run-up to the election.

Country first, party second.

I think his general message that he'll try to communicate to the country in order to put pressure on the party, if and when there is a leadership election, is are we serious or not?

Are we really going to

ditch that idea of country, first party, second.

And I'd have to say, I talked about the whole sort of personal conversation thing.