Alastair Campbell

But it's now one of the reasons why their economy is struggling.

So I think you're right about that.

They do like to be ahead of the game.

Let me just give you, Roy, somebody just sent me this.

It's a statement by the trade body, ADS, for the Aerospace Defense Security and Space Sectors.

Okay.

Kevin Cragen.

He says, John Healy has consistently shown himself to be an intelligent, supportive, highly principled man who has the best interest of UK defense, top of mind in everything that he does.

His resignation today is something to lament and is truly a damning reflection of

on the current state of affairs.

It should not take the resignation of an honorable man for the realization to sink in that we need this defense investment plan as soon as possible.

So he is respected, but he's also a pretty canny political operator, John.

No, it could be.

Look, if I'm thinking a bit cynically, has he had a conversation with Andy Burnham?

Has he had a conversation with Street?

I don't know.

I don't think so.

Well, hold on though, Rory.

Only if they come in and are able to say, we are going to be spending a lot more than Keir Starmer was going to spend.

And then they have, they then have to have the conversations that Rachel Reeves and others have been having with the other ministers to say, that means taking this from you.