Alex Abad-Santos

I mean, I do think that it's kind of scary that you could be like, well, if you say something bad on like Twitter, you will get dots within five minutes. And it's like, the bad is, oh, she missed a note or, oh, she missed a mark. And they'll be like, oh, hi, your mom's going to die. And you're like, well, Whoa, wait, wait, wait.

It's fascinating in that like there are certain celebrities that are like reached like this level of godhood almost.

So it's like if we're saying celebrity is dead from like this, I guess this side of the mirror, celebrity is dead on the other side then, right? Like it's like, oh, I'm not standing with celebrity. I'm standing Beyonce.

My friend.

But then they post from the bunkers, too, though.

It's going to be like, Brittany, did you see Beyonce's bunker? It's so cute.

I'm always about like eat the rich, but then when it comes to like Beyonce and Rihanna, I'm like, I'm a picky eater. Like, let's do a la carte.

Okay, so picture this. 2017, Rihanna launches Fenty Beauty. And prior to this, Rihanna had the best Instagram. Everything was aspirational. She was going to the Met Gala. She was posting from there. And she was also on social media. She was fighting with Ciara. She was fighting with everyone. She was telling people, good luck booking that stage you speak of.

Basically, when Fenty launches, you hit this inflection point where she just, it becomes like, that's not Rihanna who's talking to me anymore. And it's just like kind of like this weird like marketing like, okay, well, there's a new highlighter. And it's like, of course, I'm happy for Rihanna. But it's just like that's where all the aspiration dies. And it just like bleeds into marketing.

But I think it's also a bigger cultural shift of everyone has all the social media you're talking about. And then I think what we saw, and I know they get piled on a lot, but with the Kardashians, it was like, this is how we perform our version of celebrity, and you can sell this, and it's marketable. And I think like...

As companies and as, like, everyone figured it out, like, everyone's like, wow, this is a really successful way to go. We will be your friend on Instagram, on social media. And I guess that line disappears of, like, is this person, like, my friend or are they a celebrity? It's like, and again, that feeds into, like, parasocial stuff that we have now.

So, like, our whole culture is kind of bent around this, I guess, imagined perception that these people are just like us and all our friends because isn't that what they've been telling us?

Yeah.

Coming up. Can I admit something?

I have the CC and it smells so good.

I have the hand wash.

Can I admit something?

I have the CC and it smells so good.

I have the hand wash.

I'm fully on like any fancy white woman stuff.

It was on Amazon. I got the discount, whatever. It was fine. It was fine, fine. No, but I do think that there's like this bigger conversation of just like celebrities taking advantage of stand culture and where you consume everything that a celebrity has. It's like, of course, people are going to want, like Beehive is going to want all the things that bring them closer to Beyonce.

They're here to make money off of us. And it's like, those fans are money. And I love you, Beyonce.

Gwyneth Paltrow on a ski slope.

Whenever like celebrities started doing the whole, like I'm your friend, trust me. If you want to support me, buy my music, all that stuff. that speaks to a certain individual and it's only natural that that person wants to support them like a hundred percent. And it's like, you ride and die for these people.

How did you guys meet?

No? No.

I think like a lot of the questions and a lot of the fascination between Bill Belichick and Jordan are like, what do they talk about? What does that relationship look like behind closed doors? And we all have this idealized view of like what marriage is supposed to look like and what love is supposed to look like. And it's just like that doesn't match up with what we see on paper.

That doesn't match up with what we see on photos with this coupling.

again, with the moves that you mentioned, it's hit upon this trope of like, oh yes, a woman maybe taking advantage of an older man for his money. And that is what he has to provide for. And I think it makes us face these questions of like, is this okay? If they're both consenting adults and he's in it for dating a younger, attractive woman and she's in it for his money, is that okay?

If they're okay with each other. And I think a lot of us have our own opinions whether that's okay or not.

Mm-hmm.

Well, you can't like take Jordan in a vacuum because I think as what Char said, like there's this whole manosphere, right? But at the same time, there's like this championing of trad wives that is happening all around social media, all around Instagram and TikTok. And I think like an extension of that is also wives and girlfriends at like football games, right?

And it's just like, well, trad wives are now like making millions of dollars on the internet being like, oh yeah, I love like not being a nine to five. And I love being a trophy wife. She is in her own like lane making a career out of being a girlfriend, a very visible girlfriend to a very successful NFL coach.

I mean, it seems like a nice life, though.

But I also think when we talk about Jordan Hudson, there is a misogyny there, right? No one really cares when you're an older man going for a younger woman. People think it's normal. But it's like the moment that a woman tries to flip that dynamic into her favor... That's when the negativity comes. That's when the speculation comes and the scrutiny comes, right?

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. My love language is when anyone says, can I be a bitch for a second? And I'm like, yes.

Okay.

Oh, I don't think anything would satisfy us. Absolutely not. I think, like, every celebrity relationship always, like, reflects our own values and, like, what we want from relationships and what we want to see our heroes or, like, our villains or...

are like kardashians or our trad wives or our sports stars like kind of embody right so i think like this one especially that's like the age gap is it the money is it the system like it's it's it speaks to like our bigger ideas about like how love and relationships work

Thank you.

Oh, I feel like all these are winners. Aren't they all winners? All of the above.

Oh, man. Wow.

Does she do poppers?

Listen.

If she ever invites me, I'm still going to call her Meghan Markle.

Thank you for having me.

As a gay man of a certain age, I can confidently say that gay guys love poppers or have loved poppers. But I would say that it's mostly like a queer party drug now. Like the aforementioned Charli XCX, she famously had some meet and greets. She signed some poppers and they become kind of like this pop culture meme.

in pop culture, right? Like, there's symbolic shorthand for, I'm having a good time. I'm going out dancing. I'm going to maybe a queer party where the queer people will be there and will be silly. Also, there's, like, the undertone of sex.

And I think, like, the whole pop cultural, like, ephemera of, like, Charlie XCX sniffing poppers kind of makes it, like, this tongue-in-cheek joke about people who know what poppers are. So when you have this, like, serious story of an FDA rig allegedly going after business... I think there's this kind of like initial shock that's kind of like, okay, well, why?

But also like, okay, how serious is this?

Thanks for having me.

Can't wait to talk about what we're going to talk about.

I mean, I think queer people are not unfamiliar with being painted as deviants. That is the rhetoric that has come from the right wing in the last five, ten years. It's just like, oh my gosh, it's a deviant lifestyle, whatnot. Queer people are not strangers being painted in a certain way.

but I do think that like poppers puts people in a weird space of like, if you defend poppers, are you defending like this kind of like illicit lifestyle? Right. And then it becomes this idea of like respectability politics, which like it again, queer people are no stranger to respectability politics.

It's just like the whole fight for like queer rights and like trans rights and equality is like overcoming this idea that like someone who who you don't agree with, who is like maybe as different physically, emotionally, spiritually than you has the same rights as you.

And so I think the whole idea of like painting someone as a monster or someone who does poppers or painting someone who does drugs, like, Like painting queer people and associating with that like puts us in a weird position where it's like, yes, I would like to defend poppers. Right. And again, you mentioned that they're a gray zone.

And I think that makes it even more complicated of like the legality of it all.

Love to talk about poppers on NPR.

Oh my God. This is so much.

Let's go.

I'm like 12. It's like once a month.

C is J-Lo. That's J-Lo, I believe. Oh, I guess C. Okay.

It was a huge week for Caucasian women who might have girl crushes.

Because Haim also had a new song.

I would like Rihanna to date someone who ever inspires her to make another album. That's all I want.

Maybe like Rihanna. Leave Rihanna and Beyonce.

I mean, could one really be a 365 party girl if we were wearing business casual to the club?