Alex Gibney

And the way you say it is exactly the way it worked in economic terms. In other words, theatrical distribution, particularly for independent films, was almost always a loss leader. It usually didn't pay for itself in theaters, but it was a signal that it was good. And also the film festival world, all of that, and then people would show up and bid for But then, you know, so the pandemic happened.

And the way you say it is exactly the way it worked in economic terms. In other words, theatrical distribution, particularly for independent films, was almost always a loss leader. It usually didn't pay for itself in theaters, but it was a signal that it was good. And also the film festival world, all of that, and then people would show up and bid for But then, you know, so the pandemic happened.

And the way you say it is exactly the way it worked in economic terms. In other words, theatrical distribution, particularly for independent films, was almost always a loss leader. It usually didn't pay for itself in theaters, but it was a signal that it was good. And also the film festival world, all of that, and then people would show up and bid for But then, you know, so the pandemic happened.

Suddenly, theaters flatline. Yeah. Nobody's going to theaters during a pandemic. And also, there starts to be a huge consolidation in the streaming industry or streaming cable industry because now streamers and cable casters are starting to be one.

Suddenly, theaters flatline. Yeah. Nobody's going to theaters during a pandemic. And also, there starts to be a huge consolidation in the streaming industry or streaming cable industry because now streamers and cable casters are starting to be one.

Suddenly, theaters flatline. Yeah. Nobody's going to theaters during a pandemic. And also, there starts to be a huge consolidation in the streaming industry or streaming cable industry because now streamers and cable casters are starting to be one.

Like when you're trying to make something that is... Well, then it becomes harder because, you know, you go to people and you say, I went to one streamer with a film I had called Citizen K, you know, which is kind of a look at Putin's Russia through this oligarch named Mikhail Khodorkovsky, who then, when things turned in 2003, spent 10 years in the Gulag.

Like when you're trying to make something that is... Well, then it becomes harder because, you know, you go to people and you say, I went to one streamer with a film I had called Citizen K, you know, which is kind of a look at Putin's Russia through this oligarch named Mikhail Khodorkovsky, who then, when things turned in 2003, spent 10 years in the Gulag.

Like when you're trying to make something that is... Well, then it becomes harder because, you know, you go to people and you say, I went to one streamer with a film I had called Citizen K, you know, which is kind of a look at Putin's Russia through this oligarch named Mikhail Khodorkovsky, who then, when things turned in 2003, spent 10 years in the Gulag.

And I went to one streamer and the streamer said, you know... This is a good film, but we don't want to offend Russia. Really? Yeah. We don't want to offend Russia. Okay. Wow. Okay. Note taken. You know, because you can see the commercial considerations, particularly in a global economy, begin to take over.

And I went to one streamer and the streamer said, you know... This is a good film, but we don't want to offend Russia. Really? Yeah. We don't want to offend Russia. Okay. Wow. Okay. Note taken. You know, because you can see the commercial considerations, particularly in a global economy, begin to take over.

And I went to one streamer and the streamer said, you know... This is a good film, but we don't want to offend Russia. Really? Yeah. We don't want to offend Russia. Okay. Wow. Okay. Note taken. You know, because you can see the commercial considerations, particularly in a global economy, begin to take over.

And I think, in a way, it's kind of obvious why that is. If you want... a big audience, you make a list of the top 20 celebrities, And you think if we do a Taylor Swift documentary, we're going to get a big audience because her audience is big. Right. So you're just borrowing Taylor Swift's audience.

And I think, in a way, it's kind of obvious why that is. If you want... a big audience, you make a list of the top 20 celebrities, And you think if we do a Taylor Swift documentary, we're going to get a big audience because her audience is big. Right. So you're just borrowing Taylor Swift's audience.

And I think, in a way, it's kind of obvious why that is. If you want... a big audience, you make a list of the top 20 celebrities, And you think if we do a Taylor Swift documentary, we're going to get a big audience because her audience is big. Right. So you're just borrowing Taylor Swift's audience.

The difference is that for a network or a channel or even a streamer early on, that they would have editorial control. That would be a good thing. That showed a dedication to certain journalistic and editorial principles.

The difference is that for a network or a channel or even a streamer early on, that they would have editorial control. That would be a good thing. That showed a dedication to certain journalistic and editorial principles.

The difference is that for a network or a channel or even a streamer early on, that they would have editorial control. That would be a good thing. That showed a dedication to certain journalistic and editorial principles.

Right? You never give the subject control. Not anymore. Right. Gone. Poof. And I think that to some extent you think to yourself, well, okay, like I've made commercials before. Like when I make a commercial for a client, I don't expect to have editorial control. Because it's a commercial. Yeah. But that's the problem. It's like there's this netherworld at the moment where the celebrity –

Right? You never give the subject control. Not anymore. Right. Gone. Poof. And I think that to some extent you think to yourself, well, okay, like I've made commercials before. Like when I make a commercial for a client, I don't expect to have editorial control. Because it's a commercial. Yeah. But that's the problem. It's like there's this netherworld at the moment where the celebrity –