Alex Wagner

Welcome to Pod Save America.

I am Alex Wagner.

Charlie Kirk's assassination deepened an already extraordinary political divide.

Members of both parties condemned the killing and they mourned Kirk's death, regardless of whether they agreed with his politics.

But Republicans quickly turned that tragedy into an attack line.

They flooded social media and they accused Democrats of celebrating Charlie Kirk's death, even though no elected Democrat actually did that.

Vice President J.D.

Vance urged Americans not just to call out people celebrating Charlie Kirk's death, but to report them to their employers.

And Vance capped that off with a plea for civility.

A call for civility while masked ICE agents racially profile and detain people in unmarked vans.

A call for civility while the National Guard patrols some of America's most densely populated cities under the guise of fighting crime.

A call for civility after the president of the United States directed 800 or so of his top generals to focus on what he now calls, quote, the war from within.

How can we be civil here when the politics are so violent?

Writer Roxane Gay has an answer.

We can't.

She argues that civility in a country where one party is working to erase the rights of anyone who doesn't fit into a narrow and predominantly white male conservative vision of America, that that is a fantasy.

This week, we're going to dive into her analysis, the myth of civility, the government shutdown, feminism in the red pill apocalypse, and a lot more.

Here's my conversation with Roxane Gay.

First of all, thank you for doing this.

It's great to have you.