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Alexi Horowitz-Ghazi

๐Ÿ‘ค Speaker
See mentions of this person in podcasts
585 total appearances

Appearances Over Time

Podcast Appearances

Planet Money
A trip to the magic mushroom megachurch

The first thing John explains is that unless the government has specifically granted you an exemption, there is no such thing as full legal protection in this world.

Planet Money
A trip to the magic mushroom megachurch

Any one of these churches could draw the attention of law enforcement at any time and end up in court for violating the Controlled Substances Act.

Planet Money
A trip to the magic mushroom megachurch

So John's job is to help these churches organize themselves in the most legally defensible way possible.

Planet Money
A trip to the magic mushroom megachurch

Now, after that 2006 Supreme Court case, the one with the Brazilian Ayahuasca church, the DEA did create a formal process to apply for a religious exemption to the Controlled Substances Act.

Planet Money
A trip to the magic mushroom megachurch

But the process is pretty fraught.

Planet Money
A trip to the magic mushroom megachurch

For one, the DEA is notoriously slow on this, sometimes taking years to respond to groups that have applied.

Planet Money
A trip to the magic mushroom megachurch

We reached out to the DEA, who told us multiple factors can impact the time, including how long it takes a petitioner to submit all their paperwork and scheduling on-site inspections.

Planet Money
A trip to the magic mushroom megachurch

The process also requires applicants to stop using illegal substances during the petition period, which, for all intents and purposes, means pausing their religious practices.

Planet Money
A trip to the magic mushroom megachurch

And then, John says, there's this sort of catch-22.

Planet Money
A trip to the magic mushroom megachurch

If you apply and you are ultimately denied, you've just given the government detailed evidence they could, in theory, use to bring a drug case against your church.

Planet Money
A trip to the magic mushroom megachurch

So John's work, he explains, focuses mostly on helping his clients think through a basic litmus test.

Planet Money
A trip to the magic mushroom megachurch

What makes something a church in the eyes of the law?

Planet Money
A trip to the magic mushroom megachurch

How do they determine whether something is sincere religion?

Planet Money
A trip to the magic mushroom megachurch

Now, it's not like the government has provided some definitive list of attributes they use to answer that question, but they have left clues in various places.

Planet Money
A trip to the magic mushroom megachurch

One of them was a federal case in Wyoming where the reverend of a marijuana church was charged with possession and trafficking back in the 90s.

Planet Money
A trip to the magic mushroom megachurch

People like John refer to the criteria the court used there as the Myers test.

Planet Money
A trip to the magic mushroom megachurch

Things like, does this alleged religion have a clearly defined founder or spiritual leader?

Planet Money
A trip to the magic mushroom megachurch

Do they hold regular services and ceremonies?

Planet Money
A trip to the magic mushroom megachurch

Do they have rituals?

Planet Money
A trip to the magic mushroom megachurch

Does this religion have a well-developed theology?