Alexia Russell

I mean, Arthur Grimes told me that we don't have really many deep thinking politicians.

Are the ideas, though, is this a wedge for ideas to filter through to countries like New Zealand?

Are people to start talking about whether this sort of thing is a go?

One of those ideas that may filter through is a different way of thinking about climate change and who pays the price for curbing it.

But Arthur Grimes says when it comes to actually doing something about climate change, it's as real as people starting their diets tomorrow.

That's it for today.

The details are newsroom production supported by RNZ and New Zealand On Air.

This episode was engineered by Jeremy Ansell and produced by Gwen McClure.

Thanks to Max Rashbrook and Arthur Grimes.

I'm Alexia Russell.

Mā te wā.

Hi, I'm Alexia Russell, and today on The Detail, I'm speaking to the RNZ journalist whose reporting on Immigration New Zealand's failed technology project sparked shock and anger from the department's minister.

Tight-lipped words that Erica Stanford aimed at her public servants.

This technology project not only wasted more than $31 million, public servants used creative accounting to keep decisions away from Cabinet oversight, gave misleading information to ministers, and persisted, despite multiple red flags, over a seven-year period.

Even the Public Service Commissioner Sir Brian Roche didn't mince words with John Campbell on Morning Report yesterday.

So, let's unravel it.

Jill Bonnet is RNZ's immigration reporter.

Can you tell me what actually is this project all about?

What was it supposed to do?

And the minister's report mentioned multiple red flags over a seven year period.